Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons

how could you possibly know?


it sounds like you've never been in one...

For Dougpol everything is so bad in Poland that his view as not objective but becoming pathological.

I am not big fan of Nowa Huta in Krakow but I worked there once and I remember these block of flats from 50 were well built ( often from bricks) and well designed with lots green areas around. To be honest much better quality of life than in new ones when they are built so close to each other.

It's true.I have only been in a couple but I have seen these blocks all over Poland and would not want to live in one.

I think that you confuse unpleasant Council estates in UK ( where lives half of Africa, lots workshy Brits and drugs ,crime,violence is high) to block of flats in Poland.

Maybe some of them don't look pretty but in the most of them live very normal ,average people.

I am not commenting on the people that live there.
They are just not nice looking places to live.

@Miloslaw

Not nice as some are probably old not renovated but it is people who create surrounding, feeling of community or safety.

Absolutely. The fact is that the majority of Polish people in cities around Poland live in those blocks and they're just normal communities. The residents are basically a combination of working class, middle class and some upwardly mobile professional types taking their first steps on the property ladder and getting more value for money in terms of space. I've been in many of those estates in Warsaw and they are often very pleasant places, with loads of trees, play areas for the children and benches to sit on, well lit at night and completely safe to stroll through at any time of day.

That is true.
And I think it is a terrible shame.
People need houses, with gardens front and rear, driveways and a garage.
Poland has plenty of space for the size of the population.
Time to get building, get people off these nasty estates and give them a feelgood factor.

No.... you do. Fine for you but stop projecting your very British tastes on a non-British population with very different priorities

more proof that Polonia =/= People in Poland

Yeah - again one immigrant thinking she is better than other immigrants because of racism.
You really are a disgusting individual.


As you well know, I was not referring to communist tower blocks - which I clearly said were a massive improvement on what came for before for the masses.

Working class areas of terraced housing built in the 1880s and into the 20th century. It's called Slask.
Stop being a boring patriot. A lot of these properties need to be condemned and demolished for they are slum housing. That includes 20 percent of Bytom, Ruda slaska and Katowice.

Of course Poland has no history of inner city regeration and will continue to deny the realities of whole districts of neglected and ruined housing stock. Eventually the European Union has to come down hard on Poland for it's lack of care to its citizens.

I know a fukk of a lot more about Slask than you do, having lived in the area for 20 years. It really is a shitthole, and yet you condone it?

Oh familoki! Why didn't you say so? Or are you talking about baraki? Or something else?

How many skyscrapers or basilicas have you designed ? Or Iwonka ? This thread is about Poland.

I was in Slask recently and see that in in Bytom and Katowice some of those houses are even getting protected status. They are interesting architecture but surely still outside plumbing ?

Really- I find you quite disgusting either. Moaning and moaning about Poland everything is bad bad..... Why you don't bugger off to this wonderful Britain when pavements are covered in gold. racism? Maybe open eyes and have a look what is going on in London. Again not much logic in your statement as I am emigrant too.

@Dougpol1
Why don't you move to a place you find more attractive?
@Miloslaw
Caretakers who control the heating?

As for communist period 'slums'. The war ended and people had to face a lot of difficulties - including housing. In cities lots of infrastructure was destroyed. There were no jobs in the countryside. And lots were forced to move. Again finding it hard to find a place to live. Many for years lived in crowded places but they had a roof over their heads. And those ugly looking blocks of flats were a dream come true for many - finally a separate place to live - with a central heating. It was only later that people noticed that they could be more spacious etc.

They aged with time. But lots have been renovated thanks to EU funds in most cases, I suppose.
I grew up in one of them. And honestly, I was quite shocked when I moved to East London. So the idea of slums might be quite subjective.

Complaining about a new country is normal, I've done my share of it but most people grow out of it as they become integrated and have a better idea of what the real problems are and what realistic solutions are.

The thing with doug's complaints is that they sound like a person who's been here for less than a year (in 1993) and they're delivered with no slightest hint of humor or self-awareness that could make them less irritating... (unless it's some kind of weird british humor that I don't get)

It depends. Those in big ciies are OK although these blocks look all the same, as if designed by one person. But if I had a choice, I would seriously prefer the old communist estate than a new one. The old one is full of greenery and many residents know each other which contributes to a better atmosphere. Their public transport links are well developed. There are local shops, schools and other facilities within the estate. Besides, many of those old blocks were built in quite a decent technology, a few years ago when I visited a friend in a newly erected house I was shocked it was so noisy inside - I could hear neighbours doing their things in close apartments and they didn`t shout at all.

The choice is simple in case of these two below - I prefer the first one and reject that second monster.

• 
  Old estate
  
• 
  Newest estate
  

I did. Three city.
Warsaw is to blame for the shocking living standards in Slask. The European Union really need to step in and enforce condemned areas for demolition because the local government seems to think the slums should be protected as some form of skansen.

Quite shocking and probably illegal.


I did have some humour - but why wouldn't things radically improve in the 30 years I have been in and around Silesia? How much time do these city planners need to start improving localities? I fail to see the joke.

Only wholesale demolition of whole areas will do.


You portrayed yourself as superior to african immigrants. What makes you so much "better" than them?
The board is waiting.
Racist scum are not welcome in Britain. Why not come back here and join your chums in small town nationalist Poland?

Where I live a few thousand people used to live in 'baraki' (supposedly built by Germans in WWII) the conditions were spartan but many did not take up opportunities to leave and there was much drama when some of them were to be torn down and the residents were to be relocated.

People aren't potatoes you can throw in a bag and move around with no consequence. The baraki (despite the shortcomings) were communities and unless you can move the people together you're ripping networks of relationships apart which makes vulnerable people more vulnerable and social ills are liable to increase.

The wholesale demolition of whole areas you want wouldn't be just the demolition of housing that you dislike but of people.

That type of change has to be slow and carried out with care and concern for the people involved.

Agreed, but the housing is $×it and needs to be sorted out.

Higher average iq, higher education levels, higher income, higher overall contribution to society....


A) not the EU's job
B) That's Polish jurisprudence
C) Most importantly - no one in Poland really cares....

Yeah sure, let's destroy all the old bloki because they don't compare to the new shiny glass condos. Than what do you supposed we do with all the lower middle class families and pensioners living in those bloki? You complain about 500zs, yet do you have any clue what the cost would be to rehouse all those people?

There are such blocks of flats in the UK as well.

As for familioki and former osiedla robotnicze there is more and more interest in renovating them

There are a collective tens of kilometres of the bloody things Kaprys. What are you going to do - renovate them all?
Nottingham demolished it's slums 50 years ago. Because they were slums and dangerous to health. And those streets aren't?
Been there, spent time there. Absolute brick shite holes nd not legal 20th century conditions.

Oh for Pete's sake, get off your high hourse and walk around coucil estate in your home country.

And it was London and not Warsaw or Katowice where many ppl died in a fire because of dangerous materials being used.

I think what bothers you most is that noone wants to share your view. Neither the goverment nor , more importantly, the residents.

I start to doubt your claims. I doubt you have been living in Poland for about 30 years and I suspect you lied about your circumstances too. Good job you had some of us on PF fooled for a while. Now your game is up, just get lost. Geez what a looser. ...

Yes. Done that. If they are shite holes it is because of the residents and their behaviour, not necessarily because of housing what was originally provided.

A great many Polish inner cities have large districts which are a health hazard and need demolishing.
Any other argument is spurious and suggests you have never spent any time in those areas or experienced at first hand the archaic or dangerous conditions people have to live in.

Government responsibility, for condemning areas is governmental legal responsibility, but instead they waste money on populist handouts.

Government shouldn't provide houses for the people. Should lower taxes and make sure that playing field is leveled.

and where is the housing for these people going to come from? who's going to pay for it? you b!tch and whine about 500 plus and then demand the government take on far more expensive actions...

some years ago I saw a documentary on the large apartment buildings that arose after WWII in the UK (basically in England) and a major failing was that people that had been embedded in communities and extended families were suddenly uprooted and the human networks that had been a real source of support were destroyed (with bad results).

Of course the construction was shabby and done on the cheap which didn't help... but grand pronouncements about getting rid of buildings you dislike with no consideration of the human beings living there.

Which just continues the low expectations.
To achieve anything in life, you need to set your goals high.
Build the houses first, then demolish the concrete jungles.
The money is there if you want it.

Oh, come on. Just as if there were none such blocks of flats in the UK. At least, here they get renovated but the thing is that it's because the residents partly pay for the renovation.

As for really shabby places where people don't give a damn about paying the rent, why should the renovation come from my taxes again? I'm not talking about those who are really poor that those who live off the welfare.

And mostly in such cases we don't talk about communist era blocks of flats but old townhouses with no known heirs. Or those who don't care.

And since I have lived in London I'm not going to buy this myth that everyone there lives in a cosy house or cottage with a lovely back garden.

There are blocks of flats, there are shabby terraced houses with rubbish in the garden(although there are some lovely ones for sure as well), there are travellers and the list goes on.

If you're priviliged enough to live in a lovely neighbourhood, good for you. There are such places in Poland, too.
As for old osiedla robotnicze, they need to be taken care of as well. Because they are part of the region's heritage. Like Nikiszowiec.

the shabby cheap construction was about the buildings in the UK (it was obvious in documentary, probably far worse quality than in Poland at the same time). The first time I travelled through part of London I was stunned at how.... narrow the houses were.... do people still live like that?