Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons

I am afraid you shouldn`t exploit other members to take voice on your behalf, it isn`t fair. :)Especially that maf, though he did his best to be informative, didn`t answer my request about elucidation of the problem coz he focused on Demos in the USA. But it isn`t his fault really, it is yours, coz it was your answer which you avoided. Check the title of the thread and elaborate on the problem in the context of Poland and the EU. I don`t care about the USA when I am in this thread.

Financially, the EU has been of huge benefit to Poland.
But only because Poland was a weak economy.
Now that Poland is more stable and stronger, other factors are coming into play.
I don't see Poland leaving the EU any time soon, but cannot rule it out altogether.

Exactly. Those rabid rightists have unleashed such a mess that now anything may happen. Just like in pre-partition Poland in 18th century.

I disagree.
I think that the EU is naive in thinking that all EU members will feel comfortable conforming with their morals and dictats.
Especially the ex communist countries who had to listen to Moscow.
They don't want Brussels as a replacement.

You know little of most Poles` preferences. :):)

Who do you think decides that? That sounds as if "the EU" is some foreign entity from Mars or elsewhere....pushed on poor, unsuspecting Europeans...

These decisions are made up by their members....keep that in mind!

Evidently more than you though... :-)

You're out.... why do you still care? Some brexiteers are a bit like stalker ex-boyfriends....

Bullseye! :)

Buyers' regret on the part of brexiters and a need to rationalise that.


Except stalker ex-boyfriends have no chance of getting near the hole they were once in except by force. And they know that step-by-step, remainers/rejoiners are already past first base and about to get our hands in the ponczochy and start fingering their way back.

I had mixed feelings about Brexit before but after the vote, the hemming and hawing from remainers and stonewalling from the EU was indefensible for a democracy.....


EWWWW!!!!! Unwanted images of Angela and Ursula and fingers...... make it go away!!!!!!!

Indeed. Everybody knows that Brexit was and is a terrible idea, but humans sadly have the tendency to double down rather than rethink their convictions. Pretty much everything the Brexiteers promised to counter the warnings of the Remainers has turned out to be wrong. "Easiest trade deal in history" "No border in Irland" "No need for much paperwork for import/export into the EU" "A quick trade deal with the USA". Of course according to their logic, this is not the result of falsw promises, but others trying to sabotage Brexit....

@Tacitus
The Pound is stronger than the Euro, and England looks to be doing fine. Poland though is not England, and leaving the EU and the money would be damaging. That said, elimination of 23% VAT could reduce the impact and spur the growth of tourism. VAT is a crushing tax for consumers and business alike. Not convinced the EU experiment is good or bad, but it is definitely complicated and a political disaster.

Yeah, aside from the self-inflicted immenent and long-term political and economical, the UK is doing "fine".


Poland is probably the country that benefits the most from the EU. Financially and economically it is a clear win without a downside, and in political terms the EU provides one last line of defence for Poland's democracy against the increasingly autorcratic PiS.

Thanks for that. PiS` rule will end one day despite 30% support from their loyal voters. Their neobolshevik methods are leading to the similar situation as in 1989 when communist rule collapsed and Poland became free. So we mustn`t lose hope.

@Tacitus
In the end, it is always people, the citizens that are the last line of defense. There is not a single autocratic government that has survived the test of time. Poland is a net receiver of EU money, seeing that go away will hurt. Inflation will rise more sharply and more quickly.

That said, PiS days are numbered. They have been for a while now. COVID will be their undoing, and if not for COVID I think people would have continued to fall for the free money for votes for at least another cycle. Now though the free money can't buy anything, and wont be effective. Coupled with the EU strife, and continued closure of business owned by families you have the perfect storm to end PiS rule.

The Polish Deal will be the final nail when tax revenues to cities are reported before the 2023 elections and services have to be cut. It is going to get worse before it gets better in Poland.

It is influnced by the EU green directives.
PiS high taxes, a major inflation, some green gówno,

Because we are still european, or is that too complex for you to comprehend?

Good point - you are european, while we are European, it seems. :):):)

@pawian

I was right.
It is too difficult for you.to understand that Brits.can be European and not in the EU.
We are not alone in this.
Not all European nations are in the EU.

No, your Freudian slip was european, stop twisting it now.

Then you should want the EU to do well rather than wish it (and the countries in it) ill....

Accurate observation.

breitbart.com/europe/2021/10/29/ghosted-poland-avoids-paying-eu-fine-by-leaving-email-from-court-unread/
Poland Avoids Paying EU Fines by Leaving Email from EU Court Unread
"This tactic of "ghosting" the EU court could hold off the fines for up to a week - unless it hires a courier in an effort to try and serve Poland its proverbial court papers - at which point they will automatically be considered to have been delivered."

Hilarious article.

I think the EU has served its purpose and can be disbanded now.

That week has now ended, and in any case, the million per day fines are deducted from funding so the PiS regime have no choice about whether or not to pay.


Not very well, you don't...

@jon357
Actually jon, fines can not be deducted from recovery money and they are not being paid. Now France takes issue with EU primacy of law regarding fishing rights. Based on this I see a compromise quickly in order to keep France on the "right side" of things according to EU.

The ECJ in particular is playing a very stupid game. They can't enforce anything, not even the fines. There is no enforcing arm of the EU.

That's the reason for the rule of unanimity, which has been abrogated with the Lisboa treaty and the one before it, but in practice it does apply. If someone says no, there's not much the EU can do about that apart from politics, pressure and whining.

Looking back, the Lisboa treaty is just a big blunder. Perhaps big enough to ensure that the EU has no future.

They can of course be deducted from other funding and have already led to a withold..
"Legal experts believe this might involve some kind of offsetting of the funds owed to Poland."
dw.com/en/poland-vows-not-to-pay-any-eu-court-fines/a-59654600


I can see Macron having to back down over this, and a compromise made so he doesn't lose face to much pre-election.

They make Poland look bad, with a dodgy government that doesn't pay its debts. Together with the lex TVN fiasco (trying to stab a key ally in the back) investors would be crazy to put money into Poland.

Suppposedly PiS is gearing up a PRL style government hate campaign against the EU, which will be hilarious and I doubt if it will be successful

That is my belief.
The Euro fanatics are completely out of touch with much of the rest of Europe and are commiting political suicide.
Goodbye EU, welcome back EEC.