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Referendum to decide about exotic immigrants in Poland


gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #331
Because if you ask a yes or no question it should be clear what you say yes or no to

if the question Are you for raising the retirement age? is not clear to you I don't know what is
Lenka 5 | 3,396
16 Oct 2023 #332
True, especially as wording is so bad precisely to attract more PiS supporters but even if we remove that and believe in PiS innocence then is still pathetic referendum.
Lenka 5 | 3,396
16 Oct 2023 #333
is not clear to you I don't know what is

I showed you why it's not that clear. Clearer would be are you for keeping the retirement age as 60 for women and 65 for man.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #334
@Lenka

yes, indeed it would be clearer - you got me here (your Citizen X could readily choose one of the options) - however the effective outcome if the referendums passed would be the same as with the question that was actually asked (I guess PiS chose the wording for the referendum to have a simple layout for their supporters (4 X NO))
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #335
ponadto: nie wiem co mówi ustawa o referendum (do której odsyła konstytucja) - ale sama konstytucja nie mówi nic o jasności/szczegółowości/konkretności proponowanych pytań
Lenka 5 | 3,396
16 Oct 2023 #336
But common sense does. If you are serious about it anyway. If you really want to know what citizens think.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,278
16 Oct 2023 #337
The referendum in Poland: People did not want to be treated like idiots and they have just shown it.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,003
16 Oct 2023 #338
This referendum was the most poorly written set of questions ever put on a ballot. Whoever wrote it should be sent back to grade school.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #339
People did not want to be treated like idiots and they have just shown it.

people did what they were told to by their favourite political figures and by their favourite media - in that they acted like idiots who cannot have their own thoughts and form their own opinions - not to mention they have shown plenty of herd mentality
Lenka 5 | 3,396
16 Oct 2023 #340
Just because you don't like their decision doesn't make it any less valid then yours.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #341
sure, it's people priviledge to not think for themselves and to decide whatever they want for - however just look what the example of Russia shows us about not thinking for yourself and letting the tsar decide
Paulina 16 | 4,203
16 Oct 2023 #342
@gumishu, you're completely biased and condescending. And stupid, to be honest, because the idea that the voters of your rival party are somehow less capable of thinking for themselves than the voters of the party that you support shows your bias and stupidity. It's fanatism.

people did what they were told to by their favourite political figures and by their favourite media

I didn't. I decided what I'm going to do only on Saturday before elections and I didn't even realise if there's any policy among the opposition about taking part in the referendum or not. I personally didn't hear about any boycott.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #343
because the idea that the voters of your rival party are somehow less capable of thinking for themselves than the voters of the party that you support

I never stated anything like that, so please abstain from putting your imaginations into my mouth
Paulina 16 | 4,203
16 Oct 2023 #344
@gumishu, that's what one can gather from your last two comments:

people did what they were told to by their favourite political figures and by their favourite media - in that they acted like idiots who cannot have their own thoughts and form their own opinions

sure, it's people priviledge to not think for themselves

I don't recall you writing such things about PiS voters. So why do you assume all of that about opposition voters? You don't live in their heads. You assume that, because you're biased.
Lenka 5 | 3,396
16 Oct 2023 #345
it's people priviledge to not think for themselves

And what grounds do you have for that assumption?
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #346
I don't recall you writing such things about PiS voters

infering is not part of formal logic, Paulina if you didn't know - just don't put words I never said into my mouth, I kindly ask
Paulina 16 | 4,203
16 Oct 2023 #347
@gumishu, OK, then answer Lenka's question, please, and tell us why do you never make such comments on PF about PiS voters? :)))
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #348
You don't live in their heads. You assume that, because you're biased.

I assume that because of the massive (almost universal - I know an example of concious choice by an opposition voter regarding the referendum - she chose to participate and was surprised how many people didn't ) response of opposition voters to the ideas of their favourite political figures regarding the referendum
Paulina 16 | 4,203
16 Oct 2023 #349
I assume that because of the massive (...) response opposition voters

What do you mean by "response"? The fact that they didn't take part in the referendum?

to the ideas of their favourite political figures regarding the referendum

What do you mean? What "ideas"?

why do you never make such comments on PF about PiS voters? :)))

?
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #350
about PiS voters? :)))

not many PiS voters frequent this forum - that' one - two: what should I do it for? I agree with most (or at least a great deal of) PiS policies so I don't worry if other PiS voters are just followers
Paulina 16 | 4,203
16 Oct 2023 #351
not many PiS voters frequent this forum

So what? You're making comments about opposition voters in general, not just the ones writing on this forum.

I agree with most (or at least a great deal of) PiS policies so I don't worry if other PiS voters are just followers

LOL

You're a hypocrite then.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #352
The fact that they didn't take part in the referendum?

yeah, you figured it right - where did you get the idea to boycott the referendum (if you did) from? have you reached the conclusion after a thorough consideration?

if not should I call you sheep-minded like you called me a hypocrite?
OP pawian 222 | 23,657
16 Oct 2023 #353
Enjoy, I got out of there. My long lived dream is over and crushed. This voting last night sealed the deal.

Thank Goddess. We don`t need foreign rightists in Poland. We have enough of our native ones. Goodbye and never see you again. :):):)
Paulina 16 | 4,203
16 Oct 2023 #354
have you reached the conclusion after a thorough consideration?

Yes, exactly. Why is it so hard to believe it for you? Isn't that what you do when you're making decisions?

where did you get the idea to boycott the referendum (if you did) from?

From my head. As I wrote some time ago publicly to Atch on this forum I didn't follow the parliamentary campaign too closely, I wasn't watching the news. I haven't heard about any boycott of the referendum (which was surprising for me that there wasn't one). On the 12th of October pawian wrote in this thread that he doesn't know what to do with this referendum and in the end he changed his mind at least once. I also only decided on Saturday after midnight more or less and wrote a post about it in this thread in response to pawian's doubts and finally I've decided during the day on Sunday to refuse to take part in the referendum. I also found out only on the voting day that, for example, my parents also decided to boycott the referendum (we haven't talked about it before that).

like you called me a hypocrite?

You've clearly shown in your #350 comment that you're a hypocrite, so what should I call you then?
OP pawian 222 | 23,657
16 Oct 2023 #355
why do you never make such comments on PF about PiS voters?

Gumi has become very active recently...... Since the election day he has made more posts than within a year. :):):
Gumi, too late, your PIS lost hopelessly. Kiss them goodbye. hahahaha buhahahaha

in the end he changed his mind at least once.

Or even twice. hahahaha

I decided to reject it after I learnt that US Poles were going to, too, coz they realised that adding paperwork to polling stations staff might prolong their counting the votes beyond the time limit imposed by PIS gansters - 24 hours.

I wanted to show solidarity with Polonia. And to save paperwork to my polling station workers.
OP pawian 222 | 23,657
16 Oct 2023 #356
in that they acted like idiots

No, Gumi, Ziemowit told you correctly - it was PiS who tried to make idiots of people by holding that joke called a referendum. They have been making idiots of their homo sovieticus voters for 8 years. Successfully. Do intelligent and decent people fall for that, too? No, we don`t coz we are not homo sovieticuses.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #357
No, Gumi, Ziemowit told you correctly

I'm not talking to you, I see no point

Why is it so hard to believe it for you?

where did you get the idea to boycott the referendum? have you come up with the idea yourself? what was your personal aim in boycotting the referendum?
OP pawian 222 | 23,657
16 Oct 2023 #358
I'm not talking to you

Amasing! You are boycotting me coz I boycoted the referendum???? hahahaha
What a brutal revenge!!! hahahaha
gumishu 13 | 6,134
16 Oct 2023 #359
You've clearly shown in your #350 comment that you're a hypocrite,

am I a hypocrite because I compare myself to a mass of same-minded people who boycotted the referendum? I never compared opposition voters to PiS voters (I will bark the words back if you find my comment like that) - so how am I a hypocrite

maybe I was wrong about yourself, Paulina and you reached the conclusion about the referendum entirely on your own (without any outer influence - although I doubt it) - however I have seen people advising other people about the boycott (on reddit, but I think I have seen it in other internet media too, I don't watch TV much) and I don't believe they have got the idea on their own
OP pawian 222 | 23,657
16 Oct 2023 #360
I don't believe they have got the idea on their own

Stop crying over the spilt milk. It is too late now. Take it on the chin like a man. Are you able to??? :):):)


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