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Poland's post-election political scene


Ironside 50 | 10,939
13 Apr 2016 #1,681
her horses

What did you do to her horses? Harry you are a monster.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
13 Apr 2016 #1,682
Jarosław Kaczyński in one of older interviews he conducted with him said openly that civic society in Poland should be eliminated because it gets in the way of the power of the state.

Yes. In the same way that Thatcher infamously said "There is no such thing as society."

That failure to investigate properly Smolensk lowered position of Poland significantly.

The whole world was shocked by the criminally negligent death of 90 plus innocents. Much later, the whole world was laughing at Poland (again) because of PIS's "theories".

It was left to the government of the day to point out that any confusion as the cause was just the view of some nationalist retards with no economic policies, that had to dream up yet another conspiracy theory to hide their lack of any political solution.

We have the release of the film comedy of the year aka "Smolensk" to look forward to. The citizens of Tri-City will be rolling in the aisles with laughter, I can guarantee you that.

And please do carry on with the silly posts - that's what we have come to expect when we read your moniker.

If said foreigner is an EU citizen, no, not a chance.

Don't feed the (nationalist) troll Harry.

When a foreigner, best not to get involved! ;)

Don't be a silly billy InPolska. You know Katowice, so you will have heard of John Baildon. Brits have been coming here for centuries, and I feel like I've been here for centuries too, so I bloody will have a voice while I still have a tongue.

And unlike many on PF, I am a taxpayer, ground rent et al. So that troll with his threats can kiss my arse.

The only problem is that it gets slightly creepy

All of this tittle-tattle is very Daily Mail chaps. Policies and the economy are what matters here. And take a look in the mirror. I know I have:(

Kaczynski is fair game because of his homophobic past of course.............
Harry
13 Apr 2016 #1,683
What did you do to her horses? Harry you are a monster.

Rather than engaging in yet more of the off-topic ad hom trolling that tells the board that you know you won't have a chance if you try to debate on the facts, why don't you try clearing up some of the questions that result from the posting of your fellow American?

For example:
Why are lovers of PIS trying to claim that a horse which died on 17 March died on 19 Februay?
Why are lovers of PIS trying to claim that a horse which died on 2 April died on 19 Februay?
Why are lovers of PIS trying to claim that a horse which was put down due to a twisted intestine was poisoned?
Why are lovers of PIS trying to claim that a horse which died as a result of a twisted large colon caused by completely amateurish handling was poisoned?

Why was a loyal servant of the party whose previous agricultural experience was limited to milking cows appointed to a position requiring knowledge of horses?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
13 Apr 2016 #1,684
And please do carry on with the silly posts - that's what we have come to expect when we read your moniker.

You assume that I care at all what you think about me, or if you laugh, slap yourself silly or otherwise. I see that your priggish attitude and arrogance installed by your school never left you. Your are one of the stupidest people on PF although it was a close run with smurf. Why would I care about your opinion at all silly?

The whole world was shocked

The crux of the matter is a failure to investigate properly that crash by the Polish state. That were criminal negligence occurred and it can be blamed solely on Tusk and his PO government.

You as usual are missing the point by the mile and just rumble on your favourite subject - your ideological sympathies and antipathies. Dry up!

Why was a loyal servant of the party whose previous agricultural experience was limited to milking cows appointed to a position requiring knowledge of horses?

Due to that party victory in the last election and due to the prevailing practices in Poland that have not started nor end with PiS.

Could you answer my question now? What have you done to these poor horses. What such a lovely animal ever done to you? Poor horsy.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
13 Apr 2016 #1,685
criminal negligence occurred

Too right it did. That was when the pilot's decision making was interfered with by unauthorised persons entering the cockpit.
We await the huge payments in criminal damages that the state will be making to the victims.
jon357 66 | 17,040
13 Apr 2016 #1,686
Now who would have a motive to slip toxic ingredietns into the feed

Conspiracy theories.

And based on an absolute lie. Basically PiS supporters trying lie in order to shift the blame from the PiS placeman (who even PiS are not standing by).

The sad thing is that any outsider reading this might believe you. Though most wouldn't.

the new director or the old one, resentful of getting the sack?

Nobody is suggesting that except yourself.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
13 Apr 2016 #1,687
Basically PiS supporters trying lie in order to shift the blame from the PiS placeman (who even PiS are not standing by).

Nothing new there. Anyone that knows anything about animals knows that you don't move them long distances before and after birth.
jon357 66 | 17,040
19 Apr 2016 #1,688
They're not only killing horses at the national stables, breaking into the NATO offices in the dead of night and changing the locks or chopping down one of the most important virgin forests in Europe, now they're trying to take over the new WW2 museum in Gdańsk and stopping it opening...

Why?

Because it presents history in too neutral a way for PiS who want their specific narrative promoted to visitors. This article (in Polish) covers all of the above and discusses the city of Gdańsk's fight against the PiS attempt. It ends by saying that the battle has yet to come.

polska.newsweek.pl/w-gdansku-bitwa-z-pis-em-o-muzeum-ii-wojny-swiatowej,artykuly,384259,1.html

As someone wisely said about this issue: "It's scary that in the name of some sick ideology they're ready to destroy any cause that could serve the common good. I'm waiting until they dismantle newly-built roads because their existence is not in line with the Belarusian or North Korean way of thinking."

Worth mentioning that this isn't the first time they've done this, albeit at a local level. They and the local League of Polish Families (an extremist party, now largely forgotten) forced out the hugely respected Director of the museum at Dobroczyń, who'd set up the whole thing from scratch and painstakingly managed the restoration of the palace. They then removed all emphasis concerning the one and only thing that Dobroczyń Palace is famous for!

Basically totalitarian style attempts to manipulate the view of history that is presented. It won't be long before they start trying to airbrush people they don't like out of photographs!
Ironside 50 | 10,939
19 Apr 2016 #1,689
They're not only killing horses at the national stables, breaking into the NATO offices in the dead of night and changing the locks or chopping down one of the most important virgin forests in Europe

Right.....?, they killed all those horses in order to make sausages from their meat! They are Chopping down a virgin forest to use that wood to fry those sausages. They will eat them laughing fiendishly while on their midnight secret feast out in the fields dancing around a fire, feasting, carousing etc..

Additionally they burn in those fires effigies of foreigners, Jews, gays and for a good measure jon's.

Now wake up and drink a glass of cold water.

By the way you are off-topic here you should write about your dream in the thread - jon's nightmares and visions.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Apr 2016 #1,690
democrats

Democracy means rule of the people, not of just some elite. In a country where the majority are Catholics and do not want hostile separation in the French mode, the majority's will must be respected. Besides, the term separation of Church and state is not found in the Polish constituion, hence such separation would be unconstitutional.
jon357 66 | 17,040
19 Apr 2016 #1,691
your dream

You mean the very widely reported 'dream', the one that Greenpeace are in, the one that the European Union are concerned about?

When they start trying to take over local authority museums in order to use them as propaganda vehicles, then Ironside, that is a very bad dream indeed...
Ironside 50 | 10,939
19 Apr 2016 #1,692
You mean the very widely reported 'dream'

Do you really want to talk about fact and unadorned reality rather than biased anti-PiS propaganda? They are in charge and if you want to make an omelet you need first to break an egg. They have been elected amongst widely supported clamor for changes, to do something means to break status quo and that what they are doing - they have democratic mandate to do so, they enjoy popular support regardless of the noises that minority is producing. (by the way that minority is supported financially by the foreign players)

Do they make mistakes, faux pas, blunders? - sure they do but at least they do something that is more that can be said about PO.

Now, this issue with horses is just a propaganda item - a pure and simple no two ways about it. There is problem but PiS is responsible for that in the way they are responsible for a weather. Horses stared dying before ~PiS even won the last election.

Hey but you know all that, you just chose to use it in your propaganda war against people you see as your ideological enemies - that clear, you are not a bystander or an objective observer but you are a person that is deeply involved in the conflict.

the one that Greenpeace are in, the one that the European Union

First of they can peace off, they can hardly have legs to stand on this issue having chopped all their virgin forest for greed they have no ground to dictate to others what to do with their forest.

Having said that I think that they chopping some woods in order to save that forests from some kind of pestilence :) or whatnot. Whether or not that is a good decision or a wise decision I cannot tell as I have no idea and neither do you.

When they start trying to take over local authority museums

Here I agree with them. High time that Polish museums were passing Polish historical narrative and perspective. It is only fair and while you are talking a lot of things you should remember that Jewish's Museums in Warsaw that tell the story from a very narrow and biased perspective had been build (and maintained) mainly from the Polish taxpayers money have been build thanks to one of those twins you are accusing of fascism and totalitarian leanings.

You make no sense but that what an extreme ideology does to people.
jon357 66 | 17,040
19 Apr 2016 #1,693
Now, this issue with horses is just a propaganda item

Really? That same 'propaganda item' that only came to public attention due to foreign breeders withdrawing their horses after they died, following the entirely political firing of the stud's highly experienced Director and his replacement by a PiS political crony whose only experience with racehorse breeding was a course on how to milk cows?

First of they can peace off, they can hardly have legs to stand on this issue having chopped all their virgin forest for greed they have no ground to dictate to others what to do with their forest

Greenpeace? Looks like you've misunderstood something there, Ironside...

High time that Polish museums were passing Polish historical narrative and perspective.

Both museums had a 'Polish historical narrative and perspective' already. For the PiS regime however, they prefer propaganda and very much their version of history.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
19 Apr 2016 #1,694
Greenpeace?

and the EU.

Looks like you've misunderstood something there,

Nah, they are walking misunderstanding themselves.

following the entirely political firing of the stud's highly experienced Director and his replacement by a PiS political crony whose only experience with racehorse breeding was a course on how to milk cows?

you are missing something here, the first horse dead occurred while that highly experienced Boss had been firmly in charge, so change in management evidently has little to do with those dying horses.

Both museums had a 'Polish historical narrative and perspective' already

Nah, that is not a Polish historical perspective that is soviet BS.
jon357 66 | 17,040
19 Apr 2016 #1,695
and the EU.

We're talking about the Greenpeace statement, but never mind...

change in management evidently has little to do with those dying horses

In fact it has everything to do with the dead horses, as the horses' owners have made clear. Plenty of posts on this already.

Nah, that is not a Polish historical perspective that is soviet BS.

So you think the mainstream view is "soviet BS"? Are the City Council in Gdańsk soviet?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
19 Apr 2016 #1,696
In fact it has everything to do with the dead horses, as the horses' owners have made clear

Horse owners could be mistaken you know. That is all just not enough evidence if any to support your and their claims. That should be investigated properly not used in a propaganda war. .

So you think the mainstream view is "soviet BS"? Are the City Council in Gdańsk soviet?

Those are general questions - ask me specifics and I'll answer.
jon357 66 | 17,040
19 Apr 2016 #1,697
Horse owners could be mistaken you know

So can anyone, however that's clutching at straws a bit, especially since the owners in question are experts.

The issue for today is the attack on a museum's neutrality...
Ironside 50 | 10,939
19 Apr 2016 #1,698
a museum's neutrality...

If they don' depend on Government for money at all than we have an issue here, if on the other hand they do - no issue.

especially since the owners in question are experts.

Expert investigators? Somehow I doubt it. Also as far as I know they rather hire experts, as they have a day job.
jon357 66 | 17,040
19 Apr 2016 #1,699
at all than we have an issue here,

Neutrality and independence (something PiS actually despise), rather than the principle of autonomy which the museum's Director discusses in the article and which the City of Gdańsk are very keen to maintain.

Expert investigators? Somehow I doubt it. Also as far as I know they rather hire experts, as they have a day job.

You sure about that, IS, given the people involved and the value of the breeding stock? Racehorse training isn't a hobby you know...

"We should call for a referendum and remove this government from power in a democratic way," Wałęsa said

He reserved his strongest criticisms for Jarosław Kaczyński, chairman of the Law and Justice party, and his late twin brother, former president of Poland Lech Kaczyński.
"All of Poland's miseries stem from the Kaczyńskis," he claimed.
"It is Jarosław Kaczyński who is the cause of all this evil," he argued

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/249462,Walesa-says-Polish-president-should-resign-for-the-good-of-the-country
Well said, it's pretty well what most of Warsaw thinks...
smurf 39 | 1,981
20 Apr 2016 #1,700
Well said, it's pretty well what most of Warsaw thinks...

So, all that nonsense about Walesa being a spy is done and dusted?
jon357 66 | 17,040
20 Apr 2016 #1,701
Long ago, and never really believed.
Harry
20 Apr 2016 #1,702
all that nonsense about Walesa being a spy is done and dusted?

It was, but now he's again spoken up in support of democracy and in opposition to the unelected dictator, The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski, we can confidently expect the IPN to uncover yet more forged documents, probably these ones will be signed confessions from Walesa to having personally nailed Christ to the cross.
jon357 66 | 17,040
21 Apr 2016 #1,703
forged documents

This is sadly par for the course.

he's again spoken up in support of democracy and in opposition to the unelected dictator

The strength of the democratic opposition that has formed in the wake of their misdeeds is huge.

So the scandal is now attracting international attention. An excellent article in today's Observer:

Kaczyński. "He is behaving like a Bolshevik and a paranoid troublemaker. Law and Justice are the most vindictive gang in Europe

Gdańsk is a particular target because of the association with Wałęsa and Solidarity, and Tusk, who is Gdańsk-born, is a history graduate and laid the foundation stone of the museum

theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/polish-leaders-using-war-museum-to-rewrite-history-says-academic
Ironside 50 | 10,939
24 Apr 2016 #1,704
-academic
that academician who should be kicked out of the uni after 1989 together with all bunch of folks that are pretending to be liberals now and when the time was nigh they were just humble servants of the totalitarian regime! - bloody scum.
Harry
24 Apr 2016 #1,705
theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/polish-leaders-using-war-museum-to-rewrite-history-says-academic

Wow! Norman isn't pulling any punches, is he?!
"now that Law and Justice is in government, we are seeing it as it is: a xenophobic attempt to rewrite history. As a historian you can't help but see the parallels: the [communist] Polish People's Republic had a 'history policy', and here we go again.''!
pweeg
25 Apr 2016 #1,706
Bolshevik, that's a very accurate description of PiS.
jon357 66 | 17,040
25 Apr 2016 #1,707
Yes it is, though in character and behaviour, they're far closer to the NDSAP at the start of their regime. Sooner or later there'll be some parallel to the Enabling Act of 1933 and there's already serious talk by Macierewicz about a jackbooted, flag waving and saluting uniformed group...
Ironside 50 | 10,939
25 Apr 2016 #1,708
Hail Maciarewicz! :D
that make my day!
just imagine .....:D
jon357 66 | 17,040
25 Apr 2016 #1,709
that make my day!

So you haven't been following current affairs here, especially about his interesting initiative with ONR members

Hail Maciarewicz! :D

Not that far off...







OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Apr 2016 #1,710
Observer

More leftstream gibberish!

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