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Poland's post-election political scene


Ironside 50 | 10,940
31 Dec 2015 #421
When did PO run on a platform of ridding former commies from public life?

When did PiS run on such a platform?

He doesn't care about rule of law,

You are talking about rule of law as if there were not rule of law in Poland. You are repeating some PO propaganda like an automaton without mind of his own.

PiS claimed to be anti-communist. They lied.

Nah they championed transparencyin public life you i....! - meaning all people wanted to step out onto the policies scene should be screened and clear about their past and their past associations.

Mainly it is about the secret commie police or being a snitch for the commie regime.
They never claimed that all rank and file of the former PZPR members should be excluded from holding of public offices.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
31 Dec 2015 #422
When did PiS run on such a platform?

Are you trying to seriously suggest that PiS didn't make a huge deal out of demanding lustration and the removal of ex-PZPR men from public life?

You are talking about rule of law as if there were not rule of law in Poland. You are repeating some PO propaganda like an automaton without mind of his own.

There's the rule of Kaczyński, yes. But given that PiS have completely chosen to ignore the rulings of the Constitutional Tribunal, there is no rule of law.

Nah they championed transparencyin public life you i....! - meaning all people wanted to step out onto the policies scene should be screened and clear about their past and their past associations.

So... why have they appointed an ex-PZPR public prosecutor who is known to have persecuted a dissident?

Mainly it is about the secret commie police or being a snitch for the commie regime.

So one would assume that prosecutors in those times who actively took part in the prosecution of the opposition should be excluded from public life, as should former high ranking members of the Milicja.

Ironside, try as you might, you can't get away from the fact that PiS are very much PZPR-bis.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
31 Dec 2015 #423
Are you trying to seriously suggest that PiS didn't make a huge deal out of demanding lustration and the removal of ex-PZPR men from public life?

Lustration doesn't equal removal of ex-PZPR men or women from public life and never was. Ten years ago PO were on their hills with their political platform at the time.

But given that PiS have completely chosen to ignore the rulings of the Constitutional Tribunal,

the CT is not a Pope and if they break the law or overstep their authority there is rule of law to rain them in.

why have they appointed an ex-PZPR

Transparency mean being clear and public about past assassins of people appointed to a public office.

So one would assume that prosecutors in those times who actively took part in the prosecution of the opposition should be excluded from public life, as should former high ranking members of the Milicja.

Well you can assume whatever you want, I could even say that they should be jailed. However your assumptions and my wishes have nothing to do with the PiS political platform or their policy.

Ironside, try as you might, you can't get away from the fact that PiS are very much PZPR-bis.

Hmm, I could well expected to you your come-back would an utter tripe.
the Delphian Domine can I call you Oracle? I think O is shorter and more to the point.
pweeg
31 Dec 2015 #424
PiS MP Maciej Małecki accused the Civic Platform (PO) party, the main partner in the coalition government that lasted 2007-2015, of having tried to bring politics into the civil service. However the legislation removes a requirement that the head of the civil service must not have been a member of a political party in the five years before they assume office. In future it will be sufficient for the person not to be a member of a party at the time of appointment

Blatantly corrupt, and probably I legal in EU law.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
31 Dec 2015 #425
legislation

The trough defenders and their well-meaning but clueless "useful idiots"
(BTW R U 1 2?) were complaining that PiS had been power for a few weeks without doing anything. Now they are complaining that the governmetn has got down to business.

They have worked overtime to create legilsation reforming the TK, civil srvice, special services, public media, military service, banking, energy, education and
reitrement age as well as adopting a state budget. "The lazy fatcats are not used to work," PiS MP Marek Suski said of the perpetually grumbling and whining PO losers.

In 8 years the PO failed to carry out any meaningful reforms, and the laws they did pass turned out to be legislative duds which need to be rescinded ASAP to mention only the off-the-wall gender-on-a-whim act and lowering retirement/ school-starting age.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
2 Jan 2016 #426
Was going to start a new thread and then realized the muddle headed mods would just stick it here, so I'll start here.

Why isn't there any comment on the break between prof Jadwiga Staniszkis (eminent authority on political science) and PiS?

A longtime staunch supporter of PiS (and very outspoken critic of PO) she criticized the fledgling government of JK as an "infantile dictatorship" and said that President Duda has compromised himself as a president and a lawyer.

It kind of gives the lie to the idea that criticism of PiS's attempt to dismantle the TK is only opposed by rabid PO supporters.

Why no comment on PiS's new public enemy number one?
Ironside 50 | 10,940
2 Jan 2016 #427
A longtime staunch supporter of PiS (and very outspoken critic of PO)

The fact she was critic of PO doesn't make her supporter of PiS. She is simply a theoretician who doesn't understand implication of circumstances and realities at the ground do in practical politick.

Make no difference another card to be played in that propaganda war waged between the system and PiS.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
3 Jan 2016 #428
war waged between the system and PiS.

PiS *are* the system.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
4 Jan 2016 #429
Well they're part of it, for sure.

And it's generally not a good idea to vote for parties that want to "break the system" because it won't work (at most it will favor some part of the system over another) and even if it did then good people do not benefit in times of total system breakdown (see the former USSR in the 1990s).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
4 Jan 2016 #430
PiS *are* the system

Every ruling camp become the system. As time goes on they becomes less revolutioanry and more entrenched and routien-minded. It's good therefore that PiS want to fulfil all their campaign promises within the first six months before their revolutionary zeal evaporates!
dolnoslask
4 Jan 2016 #431
Looks like our colonial masters will be debating our future for us, probably no need for us to continue this debate, we should await their ruling and abide by it. unless someone wants to create a red card demonstration or something. our old masters used to do this but it was in Moscow.

"The European Commission has announced that it will hold a debate on "the rule of law in Poland" on 13 January. - See more at: thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/235165,European-Commission-announces-debate-on-Poland#sthash.Okf5BVwY.dpuf"
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
4 Jan 2016 #432
debate on "the rule of law in Poland

Schetyna has effectviely admitted he was behind the planned debate. Initially (back in December) he had opposed internationalising the issue but now admits that was because he hoped to better prepare his case agaisnt Poland. To that end he has travelled to Brussels to conspire with EU bigwigs against his own country's democratically elected government . At the same he is threatening to back his complaints by bringing up to a milion Poles into the streets in anti-government demonstrations. A classic example of extreme power greed!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
4 Jan 2016 #433
Polonius, have you forgotten already how PiS tried to get the United States to get involved with the whole Smolensk issue? :)

Anyway, PiS are now in the pressure cooker. Can they survive?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 Jan 2016 #434
PiS tried to get the United States

One always turns to friends in times of need. The friends cannot always come through but that doesn't mean they stop being friends.
nothanks - | 640
5 Jan 2016 #435
Anyway, PiS are now in the pressure cooker.

Hahah in Western media eyes. The more upset the West gets, the more effective PiS is being!
mafketis 24 | 9,387
5 Jan 2016 #436
he has travelled to Brussels to conspire with EU bigwigs against his own country's democratically elected government

Being democratically elected does not free a government to disregard the law or prohibit citizens (and other residents) from protesting them.

If a person believes in absolute iron rule by a party then yeah, the demonstrations are an abomination but for a person who believes in rule of law and democracy then they're okay.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 Jan 2016 #437
from protesting them

Domestic protests are one thing. Pointless and costly but admissible in a democratic country. Snitching to and/or conspiring with outside forces for the sole purpose of returning to the trough (regardless of the high-souinding rhetoric that bid may be couched in) and sullying Poland's international reputaion is hardly commendable.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
5 Jan 2016 #438
Snitching to and/or conspiring with outside forces for the sole purpose of returning to the trough

Since when do you have ESP? I'm in favor of the protests because the ruling party is breaking the law. If PiS starts obeying the law then the protests would stop.

sullying Poland's international reputaion

JK is doing that all by his lonesome.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 Jan 2016 #439
I'm in favor of the protests

Unless you've got a vested interest and stand to gain financially from a return to power of the pro-corporate/banking camp (and that would be fully understandable), you are a proverbial Jan Kowalski deluded into thinking he is defending democracy.

You should be intelligent enough to know that behind all the high-sounding rhetoric are the shakers and movers who know the real reason for what they're doing. The deluded masses only provide them with poltical cannon fodder and some semblance of legitimacy.
Harry
5 Jan 2016 #440
The deluded masses only provide them with poltical cannon fodder and some semblance of legitimacy.

As opposed to the deluded 18% of Poles who voted for the PIS-ed up regime and the deluded 16% of Poles who back in the day joined the other Party which thought it was above the constitution?
mafketis 24 | 9,387
5 Jan 2016 #441
deluded

Apparently wanting a government to follow the law is now "deluded". That kind of says all I need to know.

Why should being democratically elected exempt a government from following the law?

I eagerly await an answer that is not an accusation of something.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
5 Jan 2016 #442
Snitching to and/or conspiring with outside forces for the sole purpose of returning to the trough (regardless of the high-souinding rhetoric that bid may be couched in) and sullying Poland's international reputaion is hardly commendable.

Ay,ay, ay, this little bit "conspiring with outside forces" sounds as if you were a crypto-communist, Polo. All too often this phrase could be heard in the times of general Wojciech Jaruzelski. And until now I thought it was Harry who was a great fan of the deceased general and not you ...

I am of course well aware that most of the opinions on Poland in the Western media are inspired by the liberal, progressive leftists who dominate the mainstream media in Poland. Then those opinions return from the so-called "West" to Poland with the label of "Western opinions". And as a result of this miraculous transformation we still have the opinions of Gazeta Wyborcza as predominant at home and abroad ...

And yet Polo, I think that using the rhetoric of the communists in this dispute is utterly wrong.
Huh7
5 Jan 2016 #443
Whatever one can say about PiS, they are not the ones that agreed to let 7 thousand muslim terrorists into Poland.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
5 Jan 2016 #444
I think you are wrong. They have just announced that Poland will take in those seven thousand, but they don't call them the way you do ...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 Jan 2016 #445
will take in those seven thousand

So if the trough defenders criticised the PiS govt for whatever, now is the time they should praise them for upholding Kopacz's 7,000 pledge: Everyone thought all the pro-PO backstabbers in the public media would immediately get the sack and they would have richly deserved it. But we are still are forced to look at the same old cynical, hypocritical faces of Lis, Kraśko and others. Why then aren't the trough defenders praising PiS for that? I'll tell you why: becuase they are all biased, horse-blinkered, rabble-rousing a*seholes, that's why!
mafketis 24 | 9,387
5 Jan 2016 #446
Everyone thought all the pro-PO backstabbers in the public media would immediately get the sack and they would have richly deserved it.

Actually didn't Lech Kaczyński himself speak out against a media law similar to that proposed now?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 Jan 2016 #447
didn't Lech Kaczyński

Dunno, I'm not his biographer. But if that is true, those were different times requiring different approaches.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
5 Jan 2016 #448
And the approach needed now is for PiS to break the law and for you to make excuses for them breaking the law apparently.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 Jan 2016 #449
Entirely as predicted, PiS now intend to hurt the road users.

auto.dziennik.pl/drogi/artykuly/509711,rzad-pis-podniesie-ceny-oplat-za-przejazd-autostrada-nowe-stawki-po-podwyzce.html

It seems that not only the tolled GDDKiA motorways will double in price, but that PiS also intend to make expressways (S-class roads) tolled. The discussion is that the roads owned by the country will have tolls as high as 20gr/km - which means that someone driving from Wrocław to Warsaw would have to pay nearly 70zł each way.

Like I said - PiS are all about taxes. Lots of taxes.
Wulkan - | 3,250
5 Jan 2016 #450
Like I said - PiS are all about taxes. Lots of taxes.

That's great! I hope they will do more of that in this long 4 years time so we will see you cry more often.

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