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Poland's post-election political scene


Ironside 50 | 10,939
12 May 2017 #3,091
Where are our helicopters?

That takes times. I'm sure helicopters are on the way. Don't panic.

Why did Poland order VIP planes rather than helicopters?

Hmm in the light of Smolensk and other accidents that was long time coming.

Most importantly, why did ex-PZPR member and Head of the Smolensk Sub-Commission Wacław Berczyński vanish to the USA

I don't know and frankly I think it is secondary. PiS is sucking American dick and most likely will pay a lot of money for American stuff including Helicopter regardless of some obscure dude or what he claims.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 May 2017 #3,092
That takes times. I'm sure helicopters are on the way. Don't panic.

They aren't. Unless you want to tell us about your knowledge of an order that a) wasn't tendered and b) wasn't announced. Even Polonius hasn't attempted to claim this.

Hmm in the light of Smolensk and other accidents that was long time coming.

Isn't that more reason to keep with civilian LOT-operated planes? LOT have a decent safety record, unlike the military.

some obscure dude

He's not an obscure dude. He was the head of the Smolensk sub-commission.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
12 May 2017 #3,093
Why wasn't there a fair and open tender for those VIP planes?

Maybe bc those tenders in Poland are neither open or fair, so why bother?.

Why are you trying to defend this situation?

I don't, I see it in the context. In the context of it that French deal was shady and not in Poland interests - overpriced supposed to sweeten French after they have been forced not to sell some warship to Russia. (they sold them anyway through Egypt).

an ex-commie's involvement

You and I differ in a view on who is or who isn't a 'commie'. Anyhow in this case it really doesn't matter.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 May 2017 #3,094
Maybe bc those tenders in Poland are neither open or fair, so why bother?.

That sounds like trying to justify an unbelievable case of corruption with the involvement of a Boeing lobbyist.

In the context of it that French deal was shady and not in Poland interests

Why wasn't it in Poland's interests? We already know that they offered a huge offset deal, which was much better than anyone else could offer.

overpriced supposed to sweeten French after they have been forced not to sell some warship to Russia. (they sold them anyway through Egypt).

Come on Ironside, that Egypt story was completely rubbished very quickly.

By the way, I find it interesting that you think that ex-PZPR members aren't commies. Any particular reason for that?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
12 May 2017 #3,095
Unless you want to tell us about your knowledge of an order

I would love to but I can't.

Isn't that more reason to keep with civilian LOT-operated planes?

I have no opinion.

He's not an obscure dude

Whatever man. Who cares? I'm sure Macierewicz is calling shots here and that dude is only spinning tales.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
12 May 2017 #3,096
seize control of the courts

The judiciary is so full of corrupt judges who can easily be bought by the highest bidder that Ziobro wants to clean up their act. There were those naive types that gillibly claimedthe post-communist judiciary with purge itself and become the judicial system of a democratic country, but in 25 years that did not occur. Instead, judges have formed cliques with local law firms, politicans and business, but the average citizen is in for unbelievably long delays in having his case processed. Courts are sluggish, inept, inefficient and above all self-serving. Poland needs a Ziobro, a true Captain Poland super-hero to the rescue! Ziobro recently declared. " I will not back down a single inch!" And more power to him!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 May 2017 #3,097
The judiciary is so full of corrupt judges who can easily be bought by the highest bidder that Ziobro wants to clean up their act.

Really? Where's your proof of this? Anyone can report a crime Polly, why don't you go ahead and report what you know?

Ziobro wants control of the courts so he can tell judges what the results should be. Still, perhaps you can explain to us why the pre-1989 situation of judges being under political control is superior to the current system.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
12 May 2017 #3,098
think that ex-PZPR members aren't commies.

Not very party member is a commie. Depends on individual. All WSI people are Soviet.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
12 May 2017 #3,099
a Boeing lobbyist

You really are shedding the crocodile tears of a true hyPOcrite. The whole PO mafia was and remains riddled with lobbyists in the service of foreign interest groups who have all but taken over Poland's banking sector, retail chains, major media, large-scale manufacturing and asssembly and and other key areas of the economy. And, guess what? No-one ever heard a beep or a peep out of you when the foreign take-over was under way. Why? Because you've got only goal in life: PiS-bashing! You're not getting your kick-back for promoting what's good for the Polish nation.
jon357 66 | 17,040
12 May 2017 #3,100
Really? Where's your proof of this? Anyone can report a crime Polly, why don't you go ahead and report what you know?

Indeed. All there is are insinuations from someone who has very little room to talk.

If he thinks a judge is corrupt, let him report that as a crime.

the foreign take-over was under way.

How would it matter who owns a business here. Poles are free to own capital abroad.
gumishu 11 | 5,604
12 May 2017 #3,101
We already know that they offered a huge offset deal, which was much better than anyone else could offer

I for once know that the offset was supposed to be painting those helicopters in Łódź - I wouldn't call it huge
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 May 2017 #3,102
Oh, come on.

reuters.com/article/us-poland-airbus-idUSKCN12B1BJ

He said Airbus Helicopters had offered offsets worth more than the net value of the helicopters, or 10.8 billion zlotys ($2.8 billion).

Please don't be a typical PiS voter, really.
jon357 66 | 17,040
12 May 2017 #3,103
$2.8 billion is indeed huge. I suspect this one will run and run.

It isn't the first time there have been scandals in Poland over helicopter purchases/sales. As I recall, some figures now in PiS were making trouble over nothing for the usual reason - a lack of TKM.
Harry
13 May 2017 #3,104
Anyone can report a crime Polly, why don't you go ahead and report what you know?

From memory it's actually a legal obligation to report crimes, although I suppose that under the 18% regime crime is what First Secretary Kaczynski says it is, as shown by the way that the most basic law of Poland is ignored every time it suits PIS's wishes.

Airbus Helicopters had offered offsets worth more than the net value of the helicopters, or 10.8 billion zlotys ($2.8 billion).

Does anybody happen to know what the offsets in the Boeing deal are?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 May 2017 #3,105
Poles are free to own capital

Nice theory! How many Poles owned any capital whatsoever when the transition got under way? That being the case, the Polish powers that were should have prioritised the creation of an indigenously Polish entrepreneurial class, providing encouragement, training (how to be a capitalist), low-cost credit, even start-up funds from the budget, tax breaks and other incentives. But a strong Poland was the last thing the Soros-backed Balzerman clique was interested in. The goal was to dismantle and/or sell off the country's industrial assets for a song (and the hefty kick-baks that entailed) , so that today Poland has just barely started freeing itself from the grips of foreign capital. It's called re-polonisation.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 May 2017 #3,106
Where's your proof of this?

Yeah sure! "Will the corrupt judges kindly raise their hands!" (ROFL!) The corrupt judges cover each other's backside, destroy evidence and stir up confusion to shift the blame or wheedle their way out of their transgressions all the easier. But never fear -- Law and Justice is near!
jon357 66 | 17,040
13 May 2017 #3,107
Will the corrupt judges kindly raise their hands!

The one who gave a political speech on behalf of PiS in the UK certainly should.

an indigenously Polish entrepreneurial clas

Poland has one of the highest proportions of registered business to population in the world.
Harry
13 May 2017 #3,108
Yeah sure! "Will the corrupt judges kindly raise their hands!" (ROFL!)

So you mean you have no proof other than what you heard on Radio Maybach, who of course named no names but only pushed the propaganda of the PiSlamic State. Well there's a surprise.

The one who gave a political speech on behalf of PiS in the UK certainly should.

That really was a disgusting display. His comments ranged from the utterly laughable (for example claiming that the Venice Commission's experts who accurately assessed the situation in Poland are close colleagues of Andrzej Rzeplisnki) to the downright worrying. Either he doesn't know that in Poland it isn't illegal to be gay or when he made his comment about how the 18% regime "doesn't go after them [gay people] with prosecutions" he let slip future plans.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 May 2017 #3,109
PiS

PO NOW APING MOST BASIC PiS ACHIEVEMENTS:
Poland's main opposition party, the Civic Platform (PO) has been accused of lacking a meaningful political program and limiting its activities to PiS-bashing, knee-jerk attacks on every word, action appointment or policy of the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party. Challenged to openly state his position on four key issues, PO leader Grzegorz Schetyna effectively repeated the government's main policies. PO had wanted to raise mandatory retirement age to 67 (from 60 for women and 65 for men), but now says it will retain the present age but provide opportunities for people to work beyond it - the same as the PiS policy of letting people decide. Initially a fierce opponent of the PiS child-benefit programme of 500 zł a month for each second and subsequent child, now PO want to do PiS one better by extending the benefits to first-born children as well. Originally welcoming Third World refugees to Poland, PO now echo the government plan of helping them with humanitarian aid in or near their home countries rather than admitting them into Poland. The only real difference from PiS is that PO intend to break up the anti-corruption police CBA and the National Remembrance Institute (IPN) which prosecute communist crimes. PO have no choice in the matter because that is demanded by two of their main constituencies: shady business/corrupt politicians as well as former communist secret police who beat, jailed, tortured and killed patriotic Poles.
Harry
13 May 2017 #3,110
The only real difference from PiS is that PO

You overlook at least on of the other obvious differences: the leader of PO didn't volunteer to serve the commie regime by prosecuting dissidents.

the anti-corruption police CBA

Ah, who can forget the body which First Secretary Kaczynski would be best led by a convicted and self-confessed criminal.

the National Remembrance Institute (IPN) which prosecute communist crimes.

No, that's not what the IPN does and it's not what the IPN is supposed to do either. These days the IPN is little more than a stick used to attack people who dare to oppose the PiSlamic State. The fact that the IPN apparently doesn't have even a single piece of paper in which a communist-era policeman or even informer suggests that it might be worth looking into why First Secretary Kaczynski had no interest in women in case they could get some Kompromat says everything one needs to know about how complete and accurate the IPN's files are.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 May 2017 #3,111
Most people here

I also trust and have hope and faith in Ziobro, as do all decent, patriotic Poles. He is a dedicated, sterling Knight of Justice and a Captain Poland-style super-hero.

BTW by "here" do you mean on PF, in Fairyland, Scamsterville, KOD trough-defending circles, the aulterous Schmidt-Petru hook-up or the SB Nail-Pulling Veterans Association?
mafketis 24 | 9,374
13 May 2017 #3,112
I also trust and have hope and faith in Ziobro, as do all decent, patriotic Poles. He is a dedicated, sterling Knight of Justice and a Captain Poland-style super-hero.

This guy agrees

youtube.com/watch?v=bbV6O2VIpzg

translation wystarczy cztery ziobra by Polska była dobra (singing translation: we need Ziobro times four, so Poland won't be poor)
jon357 66 | 17,040
14 May 2017 #3,113
@mafketis
That song is a classic.

that it might be worth looking into why First Secretary Kaczynski had no interest in women in case they could get some Kompromat

That's the whole mentality of those people, then and among the PiS junta now. Remember Ziobro and the affair of the laptops?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2017 #3,114
affair of the laptops

You mean the time Tusk's secret-police thugs barged into the Wprost newsroom and tried to take the chief editor's laptop away. He defended it like a lion and the thugs, seeing the incident was being filmed, finally left empty-handed. Yes indeed, one of the many unsavoury examples of the Tusk regime's Gestapo tactics.
Bristols - | 13
14 May 2017 #3,115
It's getting worse here with that amoral shower of crap in office now. Look at Jaroslw Kaczynski and Witold Waszczykowski eroding freedoms, media independence, the independent judiciary, persecuting women who and an abortion and trying to ignore the constitution.Everybody will breathe a sigh of relief when they are gone.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2017 #3,116
Everybody will breathe a sigh

Not everybody. Mainly the post-communist clique (no more than 1/4 of society) who played ball with the former Soviet-imposed regime and now do not want any evidence of their misdeeds to surface. Many of Poland's present-day opinion-moulders -- politicians, journalists, academics, entertainers and others were once avid collaborators or were raised in commie-friendly families. The Western liberal/leftstream media also prefer to sweep such things under the carpet.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2017 #3,117
media independence

Most of the allegedly "freedom-minded" Western media, who loudly protest against the restriction of freedom in other countries, do not always engage in fair and balanced reproting which requires showing both sides of a dispute. As regards Poland's internal political row, they all but verbatim parroted mainly the views and repeated the narration of the anti-government "total opposition". Is that fair and balanced reporting?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2017 #3,118
in Poland's interests

It is definitely in Poland's interests to resolve the biggest scam in Polish history, next to which another PO-era scam AmberGold /OLT pales in comparison. Warsaw's property-restituion scam led to 40,000 people being thrown out of their homes by a gang of city-hall officials, real-estate speculators and shady lawyers who acquired the property for as little as 2%-3% of itsr market value, according to the CBA. Mayor Gronkiewicz-Waltz's husband acquired one such tenement that had been stolen from its Jewish owners by szmalcownicy (war-time hyenas who turned Jews over to the Nazis to get hold of their property). A rightful heir, a former AK fighter, is still alive but has no no way of regaining his family's property now in the possession of Mr Waltz. Both he and the lady mayor will soon be brought to justice and, if they fail to appear at the hearing, will be escorted by police. Nobody is above, even the PO's second-in-command.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2017 #3,119
...
Got clipped; should read: Nobody is above the law.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2017 #3,120
the PiSlamic State

The PiSlamic State?

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