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PiS candidates are losing positions in EU Parliament. Will they keep power in Poland?


Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
12 Jul 2019 #32
I'm talking about German capital and German firms that made and are making a great gains and profits on the back of the Polish people....

Well....that's capitalism for you! :)

But at the same time they invest in Poland, build firms and bring jobs to polish workers...putting bread and butter on polish tables!

That mostly go into becuracracy and to bribe politicians (its called I believe salary)

Now that is just not true! :)
Here are some facts about the EU budget which could be of interest of you:

[url=ec.europa.eu/info/about-european-commission/eu-budget/how-it-works/fact-check_en][/url]

Between other facts:

....The EU's administrative staff is relatively small:

there are around 60,000 EU civil servants and other staff, who serve some 500 million Europeans (and countless others around the world). By comparison, the city of Vienna employs 65,000 people, and the French Finance Ministry has around 140,000 staff.

The EU spends less than 7% of its annual budget on administration. This includes staff salaries and pensions, schools for children of staff members, buildings, etc....


At the same time if we consider the way the EU's institutions are geared and its working it makes the EU project doomed.

I would find this conclusion more believable if you would use realistic stats and facts....not some dark madhouse distortion. The cooperation between so many so widely different members has so many problems of it's own already you don't need to make up some more! ;)
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
12 Jul 2019 #33
Iron, I detected another logical failure in your reasoning.

Highly sensitive to such exploitation are countries of the Eastern Europe for the obvious historical reasons.

You meant the treatment of Poland and former communist block countries by the "old" EU. In result, you advise Poland to leave the EU.

Yet, you admonish another member about PiS`s attitude:

Boo hoo welcome into politicks dude. are u that naïve or that dumb?

Why are you so melodramatic when talking to one interlocutor and so painfully down-to earth when to another?

Ha!
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
12 Jul 2019 #34
PS: Iron, what about the many, many Poles who used the free movement of goods and people inside the EU to look for work and settle across Europe? That must be millions by now...

What will you gonna tell them why you want Poland to leave the EU?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
12 Jul 2019 #35
He will say: Welcome to Russia&Belarus Union, guys. :(:( It all means he didn`t make it in his new émigré country if he has to make a living by such trolling for the Kremlin.
mafketis 21 | 7,459
12 Jul 2019 #37
No... when Poles start talking about strategic alternatives to the EU they mean either becoming a full time American stalking horse in Europe or becoming a Russian satellite again, there are no other realistic options.

I'm not happy about a lot of aspects of the EU (again I fail to see any real constructive function that the EU parliament performs) but for the time being Poland is better in it than outside it (as long as it can stave off the horrid economy wrecking Euro... the sooner that dreadful dysfunctional pseudo currency bites the dust the better)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
12 Jul 2019 #38
So...you prefer a return to the deutsche Mark as quasi currency of Europe? ;)

You know it was the French who forced the Germans to give up their beloved Mark do you. They are convinced when Germany is forced to share it's economical aka financial power with Europe we would lose our dominating position...
Ironside 48 | 9,900
12 Jul 2019 #39
at the same time they invest in Poland, build firms and bring jobs to polish workers..

Not so much.... as all the profits are being transferred out of the country.

Now that is just not true!

Is it not? How many sinecures for politicians with sizable money and not work has been created in the EU? That is clearly a bribe.

if you would use realistic stats and facts...

I don't make them up. Perception is important too. If everyone believes that he is the one that is being exploited including a citizen of the major economic beneficiary of the EU - a German citizen. If at the same time there is need to introduce real checks and balances i.e. change of the EU institutions.

then it create a certain friction which will be getting bigger and bigger with time. So either it will all fall apart or is going to hold together by force.

What about them? They will either come back or take a passport in the country of their residence. Beside traveling without visa wasn't an invention of the EU.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
12 Jul 2019 #40
German capital and German firms that made and are making a great gains and profits on the back of the Polish people (as well).

Again melodramatic complaints on your part. Who forbids Polish companies with Polish capital make profits in Germany? As BB said, it is capitalism. Get a grip, cut this pathetic maudlinness.

r becoming a Russian satellite again, there are no other realistic options.

Why such intelligent people like Iron pretend not to see it? They are paid to close an eye.

ot so much.... as all the profits are being transferred out of the country.

Again socialist melodramatism. Profits are a private matter of foreign investors, they can do anything they want with them.

You probably meant CIT tax, but if so, you are lying.

Biedronka, the biggest foreign-operated chain store in Poland, paid 400 million tax in 2017.
businessinsider.com.pl/finanse/handel/podatek-dochodowy-biedronki-za-2017-rok/qxxsx33

PS. Hey, I can`t recognise you. In another thread you strongly supported pro capitalist libertarian Konfederacja. What has gotten into you now? Kremlin hasn`t sent the cheque and demands you step up on your anti European hatred??

They will either come back or take a passport in the country of their residence.

Which option will you choose?
Ironside 48 | 9,900
12 Jul 2019 #41
trategic alternatives to the EU they mean either becoming a full time American stalking horse in Europe

There should be a long term plan and a short term plan. So yes you are right for the short term plan that American ally works. Poland as main receipt of American gas and a faithful member of NATO.

Long term includes building up economy of Poland and of the region between three of two seas. The USA would need some trusted ally here to look out for them in Europe. They will engage they main forces somewhere around China and ME.
mafketis 21 | 7,459
12 Jul 2019 #42
So...you prefer a return to the deutsche Mark as quasi currency of Europe? ;)

No, the current Euro is a renamed deutsche Mark, I don't think there's any need for a common currency as sometimes countries need to have control of their currency and under the current regime only Germany has any real control.... I'm a Europe of nations kind of guy rather than a federal superstate kind of guy...
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
12 Jul 2019 #43
American ally works. Poland as main receipt of American gas and a faithful member of NATO.

NATO and gas are great things, I agree. But will US buy Polish products like the EU does now? I don`t think so, you are delusional.

Long term includes building up economy of Poland and of the region between three of two seas.

You mean Intermarium project? If so, that`s delusional again. None of our closest EU neighbours in the region intends to join such an alliance for serious. They stick to the EU and won`t play silly games with Polish PiS government. You are reasoning like a child now or a paid Kremlin troll.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
12 Jul 2019 #44
No, the current Euro is a renamed deutsche Mark,

If so then that wasn't planned that way...

I'm a Europe of nations kind of guy rather than a federal superstate kind of guy...

I'm not a fan of a centralist superstate either....a federation is what I would be going for...federations usually work great!

In that regard, what is a federal superstate? A powerful federation? :)
Tacitus 2 | 889
12 Jul 2019 #45
If at the same time there is need to introduce real checks and balances i.e. change of the EU institutions.

You aware that all EU institutions are designed in favour of the smaller countries right? Germany gets 1 MEP per 860k citizen, Poland gets one per 730k citizen. Even the qualified majority voting favours smaller countries, because not only do you need the countries with a majority of the population, you also need the majority of countries in total. So the 12 smallest countries can defeat any majority vote, even though they account for significantly less than half of the EU population.
Ironside 48 | 9,900
13 Jul 2019 #46
You aware that all EU institutions are designed in favour of the smaller countries right?

If that is so it clearly doesn't work. Also common currency and a central bank without a one single state is asking for trouble. It is like putting carriage before horses.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
13 Jul 2019 #47
If that is so it clearly doesn't work

It is visible you know nothing about the EU, yet you dare to advise drastic measures like leaving it. Have you dropped from the moon? Why don`t you stop meddling into Poland and Poles` business? Let them do what they deem is good for them. Live peacefully in your new country , earn money you dreamt about and be a happy emmigrant.
mafketis 21 | 7,459
13 Jul 2019 #48
If so then that wasn't planned that way...

things rarely work out exactly the way they're planned, nothing unusual about that, the problem with the EU is that it can't ever deal with reality being different from its very idealistic plans... if it doesn't change that could be its downfall, which would be a terrible shame.
Crow 137 | 7,755
13 Jul 2019 #49
Eh, brothers Mizkiewich, Czartorisky, Garasanin and Gavrilo would know how to speak in EU parliament.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
13 Jul 2019 #50
if it doesn't change that could be its downfall, which would be a terrible shame.

Agreed!
Ironside 48 | 9,900
13 Jul 2019 #51
yet you dare

Shut you face peasant. How dare you talk down to me? So far you haven't put forward any arguments nor facts, you just harping on about some slogans. Stop embarrassing Polish people on the international forum, you Soviet clown.

Agreed!

agreed to what? To change institution they way they work to revise a plan that celery doesn't work? To rework everything about the EU? Hell, in that case count me in. IF you agree it would be a shame if the EU like it is now will crumble, I disagree it would a great day for humanity and all people involved aside few EU 'politicians'.

Eh

Bugger off! Have you forgotten to take your meds again? You're hyperactive. Stop spamming.,,,
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
13 Jul 2019 #52
How dare you talk down to me?

I dare to talk to an impudent emmigrant who chose comfortable life in another country but still deems himself entitled to meddle into Polish affairs.

I have nothing against emmigrants, people have to make various choices and they can`t help strange situations, because this is life, but your case of a complaining and critical p..k is special. You must be a loser who couldn`t make it in Poland that is why you wish our country the worst when you imply we should join Russia and Belarus. And you also didn`t make it abroad, as you are on Kremlin`s payroll.

All in all, you are a pathetic loser: mental, economic and national. A complete traitor of Poland, too. Get lost.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
13 Jul 2019 #53
To rework everything about the EU? Hell, in that case count me in.

Of course I count you in! :)

Iron, it's the Europeans who make the EU...it's not forced on us by Marsians! And Poland will never have a better chance to change things than from INSIDE the EU!!!

So, stop pouting in the corner and come join the fun...

..if the EU like it is now will crumble, I disagree it would a great day for humanity....

No, it would be a bad day for all the smaller countries. Never again will they have so much say and sway.

Once the EU crumbles Europe would be back again to a few biggies who share the power between them and the tinies falling in line on one side or the other....you want back to these bad 'ol times? I don't!
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
13 Jul 2019 #54
But he does. He wants Russia to take control of this area again. I don`t mind Russians in general, they are fantastic people, but I prefer Poland to be Polish, not Russian again. That loser is doing everything to bring them back to Poland. Cheeky bastard - he lives in another country so he doesn`t care what Poland will have to endure like it did in the past.

emmigrant

Sorry, emigrant.
Crow 137 | 7,755
14 Jul 2019 #55
And Poland will never have a better chance to change things than from INSIDE the EU!!!

How true. Since I am member of this forum and that is more then 10 years of hard work, I never heard bigger truth stated here. Truly. Non can change Poland as EU can. Change will be so essential that your grandchildren won`t look like your grandfathers.

Obama would be proud. In some sick way even Hitler.
Ironside 48 | 9,900
15 Jul 2019 #57
stop pouting in the corner and come join the fun...

It is not about pouting BB. I'm pointing out serious issues and flaws of the Eu, it doesn't help anyone if you downplay those issues or brush them aside. You won't convince any one that way. So I wonder why you doing it? Are you using this tactic in lieu of a straight answer?

No, it would be a bad day for all the smaller countries. Never again will they have so much say and sway.

Oh dear? What would they do?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
15 Jul 2019 #58
I'm pointing out serious issues and flaws of the Eu, it doesn't help anyone if you downplay those issues or brush them aside.

I'm not downplaying anything...just pointing out the fact that you won't change a thing for the better if you leave the game. That is not an ideology but a fact. That's how the world works.

Poland is not a big player in Europe! And especially when you want the best for Poland it's downright crazy to demand it to leave the one Union where it gets to sit at the same table, with the same voting power as the biggies.

Tell me again how well it went for Poland when the biggies played their games without Poland and how great it was "friends" in far away countries to have, but not in your neighbours!

I have news for you Iron, when Poland is unable to "make it" in the EU, they won't make it outside either. The world isn't waiting for Poland. With the EU Poland has the power of 27 countries and the biggest consumer market in the world behind it. Alone it would be...well...only alone! Poland would earn less and pay more...that alone economically...and politically? Who will want to listen to Poland for nothing? You will have to gain your alliances again, licking the boots of anybody you hope will defend you and buy your produce.

You will not be free nor equal in anything. You will only ever be ONE smallish country with very limited influence in a world where big blocs are being build as we speak!

Why you think Poland will be better off that way is totally beyond me!

PS: Maybe you wish for a Union totally tailored to polish wishes and preferences...only ever gains and never compromises. That won't happen in this world, for no country...not in a Union with so many others, but especially not alone...that works not even for the US, and they are a continent!

This dream is just not realistic....the EU is your best chance, a better one you will never get, make it your own!
Tacitus 2 | 889
15 Jul 2019 #59
Case in point each time some eurosceptic politicians take power in Poland, they are forced to suck up to the American president to an unbelievable degree.

They followed the USA into an illegal Iraq war and now try to appeal to his ego by naming a military base after him. Is this really the future you want for Poland. Being dependent on the whims of his distant ally, under a status that is closer to a protectorate? Being dependent on a power that will shift ots' attention more and more towards Asia and China?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
15 Jul 2019 #60
Why you think Poland will be better off that way is totally beyond me!

He doesn`t think. He only does what he is paid for by the Kremlin.


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