Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia?

What cobblers.


Why would you/we be?


There isn't one. Very much the opposite. There is however a proven and verifiable need for alliances against r*SSia.

Not really. The great Christian revival is a necessity if we want to stop the depopulation of Europe (without importing thirdworlders).


To make the alliance less asymmetrical. For Russia we would be in top 3 most important allies, for Americans we are not even top 10, so they will sell us down the river when it's convenient for them (see Yalta).

Westerners in general are not to be trusted. There are exceptions, of course, among the members of this fine board but their governments consist invariably of leftists, masons and shabbos goim.

Sad facts.

I doubt religion had anything to do with it and rights/respect (fùck 'tolerance') for sexual minorities certainly has no relevance to this.

Poland and Italy are fairly religious but both have plummeting populations.


Your own ancestors came to Europe from Africa.


We wouldn't. We would just be a satrapy of them as it was years ago.


You are a westerner.


Very good. Rightwingnuts have tried to destroy Europe twice and live off your money.

Without Masons like Cardinal Podolski, Janusz Korczak, half the WW2 generals and Kościuszko, Poland would be a worse place.

Centralner!

I will answer the rest when I get back to civilisation.

Speak for yourself, I am fairly certain that slavs originate in small numbers around areas of eastern Germania that the Romans described on their maps and areas inhabited by scythians and sarmatians near the Black Sea. Mixing together with Balts, grew larger in importance from a state of disunited villages to something bigger as neighbours became a larger threat and economy improved.

Sarmatians origins most likely originated from northern Persia, not Africa! Everything before that is part of a broader human condition that is quite irrelevant when it comes to human conflict.

Thinking that "we are all from Africa so just chill" is very naive, conflict of interests that started after that had more to do with limited resources in other locations then Africa.


Aye Central European

Poland, similar to Turkey and Germany are a mix of east and west. To describe any of them as east or west is simply a error done so for a simplification for the narrowminded Cold War era born people.

Depending on your view on things, Russia's top allies currently could either be:

1) Belarus

2) Kazakhstan

3) Kyrgyzstan

, or:

1) China

2) North Korea

3) Iran

--//--

The first three are "closest", because they exist together with us within the Eurasian Economic Union. They are members of our ODKB defense bloc. We have no internal borders for movement of labor or goods. There are several multinational institutions, like development banks, and joint commissions. They have large Russian speaking populations, and host important Russian military assets.

The alternative grouping are "closest", because they are the ones with actual weight. North Korea supplied us supposedly 12 million 152mm artillery shells, while the West struggle to provide Ukraine 3 million over 3 years. Iran transferred us ballistic missiles and drones. China provides us with hundreds of billions of dollars in hard currency, and makes their industry available for our needs - down to Russian defense companies opening plants in China, staffed by Chinese citizens.

For Poland to find itself a place in the top 3 - it either has to integrate as tightly as Belarus and Kazakhstan, or to become some European Israel - in its capacity to provide Russia with cutting edge weapons and R&D, as Israel does for the United States.

--///-

I think to sweeten the pill for Poland, it can be outsourced leadership within its sphere of influence. Within Central Asia, for example, Russia does not meddle in Kazakhstan's attempts to gain regional leadership over Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan. So long as Kazakhstan maintains due loyalty to the center.

The same can be done with Poland. Poland gets to kick around Lithuania and the Slovaks and Hungarians - and the Russians back them to greatest extent possible. In exchange, Poland backs Russia in other arenas.

Central Asia is actually a great example. They are terrified of both Russia and China. They are also worried about Iran. Like Poland they have always tried to balance. Russia is the only one that can afford them some degree of independence and protection from the Chinese Leviathan.

In the times of the Warsaw Pact, Poland had several "specializations".

However, before any of their other contributions - you have to remember that the Ludowe Wojsko Polskie was the second-largest Warsaw Pact army after the Soviet Union. IT WAS BIGGER THAN THE ARMY OF THE GDR - which was the most militarized state on Earth for a short while.

But back to Polish "special competences":

1) Almost the entire Soviet fleet of amphibious landing ships was built in Poland - primarily in Gdansk. Russia still uses Polish ships to move troops across seas.

2) Poland produced a disproportionate number of mine warfare vessels and coastal defense ships. Basically - it was Poland's job to control the Baltic.

3) Logistical corps. Poland had a much higher density of pre-positioned depots and railheads. Soviet military planners trusted Polish logistics much more than Romanian or Bulgarian logistics. Poland provided the capacity to rapidly reinforce East Germany and Czechoslovakia - and to keep Swedish forces bottled up in their ports.

4) Alongside licensed production of T-55 and T-72 tanks, Poland had a large indigenous industry. Honker jeeps, Sokol helicopters, Star and Jelcz trucks, etc.

5) Military education - Poland was second only to Moscow in how many Angolans, Cubans, Vietnamese, and Ethiopians were trained and given an education. Many of them went on to become big people in their home countries.

6) Internal Security and Control - even the KGB was envious of the reach of the UB and the fierceness of the ZOMO riot police. Poland was a test bed for how to control populations. Polish security officers worked in every corner of the world advising governments on how to establish ironclad security. Solidarity ruined their reputation a little bit - but they were still among the most ruthless and efficient. Certainly more ruthless than our own Russian internal security forces.

All right, f*ck it then. Let's stick to the EU and NATO.

I tried, Svetovid... I tried.

*sighs a deep Slavic sigh*

@Admin

This thread can be closed now.

We all originate from somewhere near the Rift Valley in what is now Kenya.

Nobody came down from:the trees and started walking upright in Europe. We are all of us African.


It's very safe to say that if we held a referendum tomorrow and it was orc-proofed propaganda-wise, there would be a massive one to remain in NATO.


All countries to an extent do, however Comecon's attempts to force or prevent certain industries in the countries it tried to dominate were a failure.

In general - it always makes me laugh when Poles complain about repression.

A Pole invented the entire KGB. Within the Warsaw Pact - everyone quietly took notes from the UB on how to smash even the smallest grass shoots of dissent.

For a very "freedom loving" people, Poles sure know how to tighten the screws. Maybe they got that from the Germans...

--//--

Another interesting aspect, is the quality of Polish infantry. From what I have read - Soviet generals rated German infantry most highly. The GDR probably had the best infantry available - superior in every way to Soviet infantry. Discipline, physicality, ideological solidness, level of education and technical aptitude.

The Poles probably ranked second to the Germans. The problem of the Poles was they were largely a conscription reliant forces like ours - while the GDR had a professional army that emphasized long term service.

Still, Polish infantry was assigned hugely important tasks. If the Germans were to be the tip of the spear, Poles were supposed to protect the flanks and exploit breakthroughs.

But, of course, I am never giving up on the idea of United Slavia.

I am away from civilisation (currently in Warsaw) and couldn't be arsed to type everything on my phone, but when I'm back I'll continue the good work for Christ and Svetovid (someone has to when Crow is not here).

Are r*SSians really Slavs or some sort of hybrid Finnish/Kalmyk/Udmurt mix, not that this is relevant to anything.

Be quiet, son of a Brit.

You know I like you but you have to show more respect for our Russian Slavic brothers.

Google is your friend. R1A is the main genetic marker.

Russians are actually four different "Russians". The ones in the NorthWest have high Scandinavian and Finno-Ugric admixture. In the center - practically Stone Age Slavs.

In the Southwest - lots of Steppe and Caucasus admixture.

In the East - increasingly Asian as you move East - primarily through Tatar mixing.

They aren't Slavs, though, are they.

Not that this should matter.

And the people they colonised in Siberia (and have not yet decolonised from like every other decent country) have more in common with Native Americans than any sort of European.

And the human anthem is kumbaya?


Now you probably understand Ironsides position a bit better. Poland doesn't have much to gain or hope within a west led or Russia led framework.

Poland needs to developed it's own framework similar to Turkey, Iran and Germany. Just has to avoid their mistakes, stay under the radar of the international media and slowly build up and take a larger role as neighbouring countries does not.

Three countries that are f*cked Grunnie.

Not sure you want to copy their example. They lack the weight for independence. None have even a fraction of the freedom of maneuver of Russia.

Germany and Turkey especially - they cannot take a step without a consultation with the boss.

Russia answers only to God Almighty.

Not as far as I know.

The nearest things to that are the Internationale and Ode To Joy.


Germany tries to either invade and kill everyone or to economically colonise other places, Turkey is at the crossroads of the world with vast resources that the almost landlocked Poland doesn't have and Iran is a pile of syf.

Poland isn't Switzerland and has even disappeared off the map before.

As of today yes, in the future? Not so sure

I am not expecting much of Denmark, San Marino, Italy, Croatia or Portugal in this day and age.

Germany, Turkey and Iran has a potential however over the span of next 200 years if powers like France, Russia and U.S.A waste their resources and are too stuck in their past, aimless and with too much civil unrest and internal strife. Then things can change

U.S.A went from a backwater 13 state colony to a gigantic industrial powerhouse at the lifespan of what? 100 years?

Imagine any motives state backed by it's population willing to change, improve and build a brighter future of it's country.

Countries like Germany can eye that now compared to 50 years ago, Turkey can eye that now compared to 200 years ago. Iran can eye that now compared to 200 years ago.

The deck is being is slowly changed for a different game with different set of rules and cards and therefore new players take the seat potentially.

In midst of this, Poland can't afford to be left behind, drawn in to a conflict with "Potop" like effects on it's economy

@Mr Grunwald

We need your help in Russia.

If we live together - we don't need anyone else.

Feel bad you have never experienced the nature and climate of San Francisco? Go to Vladivostok on the other end of the Pacific.

Can't travel to Egypt and Turkey for the palm trees and beaches? Go to Sochi and Gelendzhik.

Can't ski in Chamonix? Come ski the Caucasus - the tallest mountains in Europe.

You want deserts? We got em. Tundra? Yes. Endless forest yes? Volcanoes and geysers - more than Yellowstone - yes. Ice sheets and glaciers - more than Canada.

In Russia we have everything. More than everything. We are larger than a continent. 110 of the naturally occurring elements from the periodic table.

We have more energy than God himself. America will start tapping oil fields right underneath its cities, before we even open our fields in conservation.

What a grim concept


Germany sits on it's arse drinks beer as long as it doesn't see a threat to it's beer drinking. The second it eyes economical troubles it goes mad. (No matter what extreme point or version it is)

Poland only needs to ensure that Germans can feel safe to drink beer, have the house they want and are given work. Wether it is in Germany, a land or Poland is fairly oblivious to them as long as that beer is guaranteed.

Germany just needs to not get into panic mode over Polish politics, otherwise they get a heart attack from all the short-lived drama.

Turkey is a ex-grand player dreaming of returning to it's past grandeur. British, French and American interests if weakened or withdrawn would be taken over by Turkey or Iran. No question about it.

That Syf is not some island in the pacific with nothing to do. I would never thing of Iran not being capable of doing something if motivated enough. Why the world tries to motivate them to do the worst possible is anyone's guess. Testing their capabilities? Calling out a bluff?

It's a lovely hymn.


Very correct, They feel they have a right to run things to their own benefit and can't really handle it when that goes wrong.


More than just dreaming. I go there at least six times a year, including this week, Every time, there's something big and new. Sadly they've started having. Illbiards everywhere with Erdogan's ugly mug on as if he were Franco or Gaddafi.

Then you need to visit south western Turkey more closely to Greece, there people are staunchly anti-Erdogan and portray pictures of Atatürk when they want to protest against Erdogan.

Dammit, Torqi!

then why do most russians live in such crappy conditions?

Oh yeah... that's right, your rotten government steals it all.... and you don't even mind.

Incroyable!

Yeah, we still owe them for Molotow-Ribbentrop pact. For Russia siding with Hitler against Poland. We owe them for partitioning Poland together with Imperial Prussia and Austria. Just like them Ukrainians owe Russia for Holodomor.

You must be referring to Katyn.

And thats why such an alliance is an impossibility. As log as Ruskies continue to be arrogant asholes.

I've visited often including recently. In that region it tends to vary from town to town. It's the same in Istanbul where most people oppose him (and the billboards are biggest).

It's a bit like PiS with their voters being less-educated people in small towns and who are religious or at least pretend to be.


Ataturk images are everywhere, in every classroom and in every public building. I have one on my wall. The billboards in Turkey tend to have Ataturk at one end, Wrdogan at the other end and pictures of engineering infrastructure projects in the middle.

What?

I hit post message before finishing my post.

I'm currently in the north of Poland with a very high probability of visiting your fine city in a couple of days.

I told you there is some sort of curse on our meeting. My wife now thinks that I have an imaginary friend from America but she is kind enough not to say it openly. xD

I should be back in Gdańsk on Sunday.