THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY

Nah, you don't know but then you don't know much anyway.

Novi; I do not get what you are trying to say. We clearly know all about our military. And how to use it. To protect our Allies and Interests. And gain arms sales.

We are far from perfect. We fall for geewhiz gadgets too much. And end up with crap systems. But we make some Masterpieces too. Ie...No one even tries to mess with an F-22. F-15EX is so good they will probably be flying in 2100.

Danny, calm down, he doesn't know what he was trying to say either.

Saw an Army article saying Poland acquiring a pair of F-15EX squadrons was in active talks. They are do it all capable and go very well with F-35's.

Hate to quote myself but...

"550 km to Smoleńsk, 720 km to St. Petersburg and 800 km to Kursk. In those lovely cities our Slavic brothers built nuclear power plants."

polanda.com/off-topic/poland-aid-ukraine-russia-invades-part-88342/109/#msg1969211

You were absent and you missed my Polish-Russian war scenario. :)

Ukrainian artillery men are sh*tting on the AHS Krab self propelled artillery, manufactured by Huta Stalowa Wola (HSW).

They state that the German PzH 2000 is light years ahead of the Polish creation. Across the board - in terms of ease of use, armor, barrel lifetime, and ultimate crew survivability.

Direct and rather lengthy quote from Andrey Kobzar, commander of a PzH 2000 unit in the 43rd Artillery Brigade:

Ну я вам так скажу: я не залазив в AS-90, я під-час БД не залазив у М109, проте це простіші машини. От у що я залазив з машин подібного класу - це у AHS Krab. Я його бачив, і одразу хочу вам сказати: це недороблена, непродумана і дуже сира машина. Її поляки "допилювали" 20 років і так її й не доробили. В ній хаотично розтиканий БК, тонка броня. Це провал.

Ліпше за PZH-2000, яка чудово захищена, з значним модернізаційним потенціалом, та АВТОМАТИЧНОЮ ПОДАЧОЮ СНАРЯДІВ немає нічого. Якщо у тебе прямі руки, й ти достатньо обслуговуєш всі необхідні механізми, то до снарядів ти доторкаєшся лише тоді, коли вантажиш БК в САУ. Після того можна стріляти як завгодно, проте до снаряду доторкатися не доведеться. А в Крабі такого немає, там ти все ручками тягати, що вже говорити про простіші машинки.

А якщо є бажання загалом порівняти Краб та PzH-2000, то зайдіть на Oryx та порівняйте втрати. Верифіковано втрату 28 Крабів, а їх було 80. Втратили третину, третину! І якщо поглянути на фото уражених машин, то дуже частим явищем є детонація САУ, разом з екіпажем.

А от Панцергаубиць 27 штук, скільки з них знищено? Немає таких. Про пошкоджені я знаю, але їх кількість можна перелічити на пальцях однієї руки. А такого, щоб БК детонував чи хтось з членів екіпажу загинув - та ніколи. Тут вже питання грамотності компоновки САУ.

English translation:

Well, I'll tell you this: I didn't fit into the AS-90, I didn't fit into the M109 during the DB, but these are simpler cars. This is what I climbed into from cars of this class - this is from the AHS Krab. I saw it, and I want to tell you right away: this is an unfinished, ill-conceived and very crude machine. The Poles spent 20 years finishing it and never finished it. It has random ammo and thin armor. This is a failure.

There is nothing better than the perfectly protected PZH-2000 with significant modernization potential and AUTOMATIC SHELL FEED. If you have straight hands, and you sufficiently maintain all the necessary mechanisms, then you only touch the shells when loading the ammunition into the self-propelled gun. After this, you can shoot as you like, but you won't have to touch the projectile. But in Crab there is no such thing, there you carry everything with your hands, let alone simpler machines.

And if you want to compare the Crab and PzH-2000, then go to Oryx and compare losses. The loss of 28 Crabs was verified, and there were 80 of them. We lost a third, a third! And if you look at the photos of the affected vehicles, a very common occurrence is the detonation of self-propelled guns, along with the crew.

But there are 27 Panzerhowitzers, how many of them were destroyed? There are no such. I know about the damaged ones, but their number can be counted on the fingers of one hand. And such that the ammunition detonates or one of the crew members dies - and never. There is already a question of literacy in the layout of self-propelled guns.

Sources:

PL: polon.pl/news/ukrainski-dowodca-o-polskim-krabie-niedorobiony-nieprzemyslany-prymitywny/

UA: drukarnia.com.ua/articles/intervyu-z-andriyem-kobzarem-dosvidchenim-artileristom-i-komandirom-rozrakhunku-panzerhaubitze-2000-OULoB

I am ashamed when see Poland in a such a stupid role in Ukraine. Much better that we together flatten Vatican and make Roman woman love us.

@Crow

Bottom line of my post is that Poles cannot make a decent self propelled artillery, because their arms grow out of their ass and their level of engineering is reflective of this pathology.

Apologies for the automated translation from Ukrainian into English above. It was such a long quote, I was too lazy. Substitute "car" for "machine", and "climbed inside" for "fit into".

How proud Kania was of these SPAs! Hahaha!

And Pawian - he was telling me it was the pinnacle of artillery design!

Btw, this Ukrainian was wrong - there is a system better than the PzH 2000 - and that is the even newer Koalitsiya. Also with autoloader, also with great armor, also with great ammo location, but higher rate of fire, and faster deployment.

Polish efforts now are not blessed by the ancestors. That is why artillery and all the rest failed. I shall pray to my Slava Saint St. Archangel Michael (personification of my ancestors), so he tell few words for Poland to our beloved Christ and His Mother.

So our Polish kin join us Serbians and Hungarians.

Poles, if going by their ancestry, would make not great artillery men - but great storm troopers.

Perfect for battles like Bakhmut, Soledar, Lisichansk, Severodonetsk, Avdeevka and Chasov Yar.

A proper use of their retarded heroism and bravery.

Can you imagine the joy on both sides if a Polish battalion-sized assault occurred against a Ukrainian trench line?

Even a Russian, would probably sit down on a nearby stump, light up a cigarette, and simply observe the unfolding glory.

What? They don't want them? Cool. Duly noted. We can always use some extra Krabs ourselves.


I still am. These Ukrainian artillery men lost keys to their arseholes so they are sh*tting through their teeth. These things happen.


What do you mean all the rest? Ukrainians were singing praises of PT91 Twardy and practically masturbated to Piorun manpads and Warmate drones. Also, I watched a video in which they praised Krabs highly so I guess opinions are divided (not that I give a sh*t - if they don't want them, all the better - more for us :)).

And anyways, boys, Polish fighter pilots can fly on the barn doors and Polish artylerzyści can fire tin cannons and still own any other army in the world. So there.

Coz our artillery machines are excellent and there are tens of reports by Ukrainian soldiers who use them and praise very much.
Your silly translation is a camoflaged advertisement for German weapons. Such statements as
In the end - do you see a prospect for the PzH-2000 as the main self-propelled gun of the Armed Forces, or do the specifics of the database indicate that it is better to choose another installation?

are typically found in sponsored articles.

That Ukrainian "commander" was paid by German armament industry to say a few warm words about their stuff and criticise Polish one which is the main competitor for Germans in this market.

As an imperial Russian, you happily grabbed the opportunity to try provoking a conflict between Poles/Polesses and Ukrainians. To no avail coz I am here to debunk your silly propaganda. Ha!!!


Be wiser than that and don`t fall for Bobko`s dirty games.

Hmm... you're right, it looks like a provocation.


Indeed. Silly me. Thanks for being vigilant, Pawian.

Don`t you feel disturbance in the force? Close your eyes and contemplate on the rest.

My eyes are open and I don't like what I see. I see once proud Russia going on a begging mission to North Korea. North-f*cking-Korea... I mean, how low can you fall? :(

You're surprised that Poland needs South Korean tanks but aren't you surprised that Russia needs North Korean junk?

Bobko`s provocation. While the "interview" is just sponsored, I have read a few of them in my life and I know this style. It is a typical method in marketing.


:):):):)

I know exactly what you mean, dobri i plemeniti brate. May our venerable ancestors save us all. This all is madness and grandeour joke in which many naive and not that naive will die.


Horrendous. I am ashamed of both my kin, Poles and Russians. Its a death race who is more crazy here.

Last times! Last times!

I want to awake from this nightmare.

Awake, near some beautiful hot naked woman.

Stop it.

Remember these are men using your equipment.

Not fat bureaucrats stuffing their pockets.

They are telling you objective criticism of your machines. It would be prudent to listen, instead of falling into patriotic psychosis.

hahahaha objectively sponsored criticism.

[quote=Bobko]Polish battalion against a Ukrainian trench line?/quote]

Stop drinking Putin vodka, you are too weak for it..... :):):):)

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F*ck it. A kto umarł, ten nie żyje.


No, Pawian is right - it's a cheap provocation. I shouldn't have fallen for it in the first place. Agents Provocateurs - Torq 1:0 (but the game's not over yet).

It is obvious and natural that Germans would like to replace the Polish manufacturer who sends Krab howitzers to Ukraine in order to start selling their own weapons there at last. They are fighting for their share in the market and the methods are plenty.

German howitzers aren`t so good at all, they are too delicate for such heavy warfare as in Ukraine, most of them were damaged very quickly not because of Russian counter fire but due to simple technical problems. While Polish howitzers are tough and sturdy and greatly appreciated by Ukrainian soldiers.

They say German armor only, can stop loitering drones. Thanks to so called "hedgehog" armor.

These Germans, maybe they are more clever than you?

Photos:

P.S. can't post photo for some reason, but you can see in Ukrainian-language article above.

You boys are engaged in same game that Russian "patriots" are engaged in.

whatever they are paid for. Just like you in the Polish forum. hahahaha

Yes. Many feel like that. So we shall again have death arenas for sport.

The paid "commander" claims none of German machines were destroyed in combat. Of course they weren`t coz they are spending most of the time in repair. It is Polish howitzers which suffer losses coz they are actively doing their duty on the front line.

tech.wp.pl/panzerhaubitze-2000-w-ukrainie-bardziej-awaryjne-niz-polskie-kraby,6931195794623232a

German PzH 2000s are repaired on site or transported to Lithuania. It is therefore possible that the PzH 2000s are actually present at the front for a much shorter period of time than the Krabs, which suffer greater losses .

It is now also obvious that German companies will get the lion's share of Ukraine's rebuilding program. The same Germans who were telling Ukrainians that their defeat was a question of weeks while Poland was sending fuel, ammunition and tanks almost right away. We played it very badly. Do we always have to be the noble, magnanimous ones, just to be screwed in the arse in return? It's a recurring pattern.


Maybe they are. But that's OK, I suppose, because this time they're on our side.

You are furious coz we saw through your dirty imperial machinations. Ha!!!

Besides if Poland is worried about their "share", they can always restart donating modern weapons to Ukraine.

It is nice to know though at least one part of our industry is still cutting edge.