Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 10

But all that is all part of the overpopulation. It's not only about a bed to sleep.

Btw what counts as being fruitful and multiplying? I would say 3 kids would be the bare minimum so I hope you all are 4 or above.

Just a shame they'd have nowhere to produce their food or get water.

7 billion is way too many.

I'm not the most articulate guy. Hell, I don't know what I'm talking about half the time. 😄 However, John Paul II was extremely articulate. I'm told his use of the Polish language was sublime, so give this a read to see what I'm talking about: "Miłość i Odpowiedzialność

Sure, sure. Overpopulation. This is why lefists like to argue babies aren't really human and that there's nothing wrong in killing them. Also, feminists like to p!ss on stage because voting is important to women. Riiiiiight.

There is.

Abortion (which of course you're pretending is "killing babies" is however a whole different matter since foetuses aren't sentient. There are however threads to discuss that very subject.


One of the world's most pressing problems.

Never.

You simply trust in God's wisdom and follow His commands. If we did that, then among the billions being born there would be enough absolutely brilliant inventors, physicists and engineers who would make space exploration and extraterrestrial settlement possibile, and we would have not one but multitudinous Earths to settle. Unfortunately, if we keep slaughtering our Einsteins and Teslas in abortion, or simply choose not to have them (because consumerism and personal whims and ambitions are more important), then we shouldn't be surprised when we turn up trapped on this tiny planet forever. Sure, the Earth is humanity's cradle, but "how long can one live in the cradle?", as somebody wise said.

India gives me some hope - the most populated country on Earth, poor by most standards, but the level of Physics in their highschools beats ours easily, hands down. Why does India have so many brilliant physicists and such a high level of Physics at schools? Because they have hundreds of millions of kids to choose from. It applies to other areas as well.

The West, however, is hopeless. God is saying "trust me: have children and love them, and I will take care of the rest" ("seek ye first the kingdom and the righteousness of God" and all that), and we are saying "no, children are a burden and an expense - we will slaughter them or won't have them at all". :-/


Ever heard of partial birth abortion, Jon? Foetuses? Those kids would have been alive and perfectly healthy if some "doctor" hadn't murdered them.

It's true that not many women want to give birth more than 2 or 3 times. But if it were just that, then it wouldn't be much of a problem (with increased lifespan and better medical care)

But neoliberalism is all about person choices and pretending there are no consequences... in it's ultimate stage (we're in that now) human relationships are reduced to commodities... making it harder for people to find acceptable partners (as both men and women end up raising their standards to untenable heights)

Societies work best (which includes being able to reproduce) when a large percentage of the population gets married and has children (even 1 or 2) but the full neoliberal mentality hates the idea of longterm commitment and so a subset of men and women engage in promiscuous behavior with no future and many end up opting out.

Lots of women in their 20s who think they might want to get married and have kids 'some day' are going to end up alone and childless because so many possible husband candidates have withdrawn completely from the marriage market.

So we're not looking at married women choosing smaller numbers of children but more and more people with no realistic prospect of ever getting married.

Theoretically women can have kids on their own but widespread single motherhood by choice is not a good social option....

Isn't it weird that when people talk about reproductive rights it always ends up being about abortion/contraception and not conditions for having children?

Abortion is a commodified service so it thrives in neoliberalism while non-commodity children... don't (and things like surrogacy further the idea that children are luxury consumer items).

Killing babies is not immoral nor reprehensible if its done to prevent overpopulation. Somehow this statement raises no eyebrows.Modern left in a nutshell.

What about birth control that prevents implantation? Do you consider that 'killing babies'? What about the large number of fertilized eggs that fail to implant or fail to develop? Are those dead babies to you?

Only about half of fertilized eggs actually result in a live birth IINM....

So you think overpopulation will never happen? And there will be enough of natural resources for everyone?


You don't have to kill babies to prevent overpopulation. You can just use contraception lol


You mean that country where "female foeticide" is so common? lol

So, guys, let me get this right - it's OK when women abort girls in traditional, patriarchal India, but not OK if women abort both genders in "leftist", "neoliberal" countries, yes? :)))

I never said anything about that. I wrote about the level of Physics in India's highschools, connected obviously with their demographics.

@mafketis


Excellent point. To me, it highlights that the real argument for abortion/contraception isn't about reproduction as much as it is about what seems to be your overarching point the supremacy of the individual will-a radical self-determination that is answerable only to the self.

I've wondered why we ignore so much of what we have learned about sociological realities, ie single-parent families and crime, depression/suicide rates and abortion. Assuming you agree, Would you say we ignore these sociological things because it severely challenges the neoliberal establishment?

@ Maf

Your post deserves better replay that I can give now as I'm out of here for today. I will try to respond tomorrow if I remember and if the conversation didn't move too far from the points you made

Yeah, exactly. Guys like you, Korvinus, etc. never complain about stuff like this. You just complain about "leftist", "Godless" West lol While a study in 2018 estimated that 15.6 million abortions took place in India in 2015 (source - Wikipedia).

So, those girl babies in India are not "human" enough for you? Is there a "civilisation of death" in India or not?


Oh wow... lol

Overpopulation is an issue created by the modern world anyway. This is what happens when human beings try to play God without thinking of the consequences and the responsibilities inherent in the natural and universal laws which have been wrestled out of the higher cosmic order governing the universe. Sooner or later modern man will be forced to make choices that exceed his own moral authority, and that's precisely what has been happening during the last couple of centuries or so.

I think this is where one should differentiate between a civilization that has grown "decadent", such as India (and that even before the English started to rape it, mind you), and one that has become "deviated", such as Europe starting with the Renaissance. In the first case, all creative energies have expired a long time ago, and people simply follow tradition without probably truly understanding it any more, except for an ever elusive elite. In the case of Europe, the vital energies of the west were not consumed by the middle ages but were actually reinvigorated during the Christian era but have been channelled into increasingly "deviant" pursuits that have destroyed western culture from inside out. Basically, where the civilization of India basically died of old age, western civilization went all sex and rock'n'roll and died of a massive overdose between the first two world wars. The western world is no less of a rotting corpse then India, its only because we have been able to feed off the inheritance of more productive generations that we've been able to drive off the smell.

Hear, hear!

Korvinus, I must say you're like a fountain of wisdom today! Good to see that some isolated islands of common sense still survive in the West!


The difference is India and most Muslim countries are not on their way to extinction. The West is.

So you would rather have no choice?

Sorry for the personal question, maf, but how many children did you "produce" for the good of the society?


Ah, so it's OK for them to "murder babies" as long as they are not on their way to extinction lol I see, I get it lol It looks like your "morality" is very "pragmatic".

Again, I never said that. It's difficult to have an honest discussion with you, Paulina. Good night.

Yes, that is your muddling style - provoke first and then complain they don`t understand and treat you badly. :(:(:((:(:(:


Good night, good Russian ass licker. :(:((:(: Let the dogs which should fekk you sleep, too. :):):)

Sorry, but if you think that human relationships are reduced to "commodities" now, then what were they in the past?


People having higher expectations doesn't mean human relationships have been reduced to "commodities" (even if those expectations are unrealistic in case of some people).


I'm honestly wondering where you're getting this stuff from... Is there some kind of "neoliberal Bible" out there? lol

Well, they don't seem to or don't want to understand.


That's irrelevant.


And they say people get wiser with age. :)

*off to catch some z's*

I'm all for informed choice within reason but some choices carry consequences that aren't immediately obvious and some choices preclude other choices.

The deranged part of neoliberalism (which again, we're living through now) elevates personal choice into a godlike ability to control every aspect of a person's life....

But some things are not choices and are not amenable to choice.... a person's age is not a choice and cannot be changed. But neoliberal freaks like Bryan Johnson is trying to make himself physically younger (and the results....are creepy to look at).

A person's sex is not a choice and cannot be changeed but an entire industry has sprung up telling vulnerable young people that elective invasive procedures like masectomies can be reversed later....

Surrogacy is a choice for all the adults but not for the baby who will never know its birth mother....

Do you think this person is making good choices?

cafemom.com/parenting/youtube-mom-admits-she-canceled-adoption


Apology accepted, think nothing of it.

Can confirm as a guy that went on one billion dates with Western women in their 20s during the past year.

Girls today are really not serious, and the amount of effort involved in making them "hear you", is a little bit off the charts.

Modern women have absolutely unrealistic expectations as regards what a happy life should look like.

Or even now in huge swathes of the world. People marry for security, status, duty.

Love may develop however it's a rare thing in much of th3 world to fall in love with and get together with someone. In a lot of countries they don't even meet someone to fall in love with. Their families fix it all, and if they're lucky, the happy couple can glimpse each other through a door that's strategically been left slightly open a few weeks before the wedding.

You kind of did though.


Not true - you can be honest about being a hypocrite all you want :)))


Because "reproductive rights" are about the physical act of getting pregnant and giving birth to a baby and not about what happens later to those kids. Hence it boils down to contraception and abortions.

Now, if we discuss how to increase birth rates then we talk about conditions for having children. And women usually give such conditions like more preschools, better conditions for giving birth in hospitals, etc.

As do many men.... both sides have been working hard to create the current dystopian scenario...

And marriage rates in the US have.... not been good....

axios.com/2023/02/25/marriage-declining-single-dating-taxes-relationships#

"The number of women entering their first marriage between the ages of 40 and 59 has jumped 75% since 1990, Brown said."

Those marriages are not gonna produce many kids...


Then why aren't they out marching for those things?

Catch your z`s or reason or decency or whatever and come back as a patriotic Pole at last.

Exactly. And that's what it was like in the past in Europe.


That's what hits me often in those discussions with right-wing men - they don't seem to care about love.


Oh, ffs... Then build a farm and grow them if it brothers you so much... 🤮

Poles will never need "Help" from Russians, the word "Help" means "Help yourselves" to those ignorant animals......

Because you can't just wave a magical wand and change the mentality and level of empathy of the hospital staff. You can't make a law that will force men to be better husbands and fathers and share duties at home. People want also to be able to afford having kids and you can't just magically make government do that by passing some law (500+ clearly didn't help long-term).


*bothers