Abortion still under control in Poland - part 2

I feel the same way about you. You appear to totally lack any compassion.


How can you not understand that carrying a rapist's baby to term would be absolutely horrific and something I would not put myself through?

If adopted that child could one day come looking for its birth mother and then what? I tell them that they were a product of rape? What is that going to do to them or do you suggest lying? It's not going to be a happy ever after ending that's for sure.

I'm not the one who wants to murder children because they would have a difficult life or might one day come looking for their birth mother.

We must have different definitions of compassion.


Right. So let's kill the child.

This discussion is pointless.

Its all about me.
Mentality of the church of Me-ism.

Yes, we do. In Texas, they have strict abortion laws and happily execute bad people.

This proves that we can tell the good from evil.

Today, a woman can have all her medical bills paid and easily give up the child for adoption.

Quoting:

While it's difficult to pinpoint an exact number, it's estimated that about 2 million couples in the US are waiting to adopt a child.

On top of that, being pregnant and delivering a baby is good for women's physical health. That's why lesbians are ugly azzholes...See Rosie.

It isn't obvious that the birth mother didn't want the child; adoption removes the confusion, so why would she talk to the child now, forget the explanation? You're grabbing at the strings of unrealistic, fabricated fantasy.

I think that there is no wriggle room if someone believes that it's murder straight from the first hours of conception. There is no compromise.
I don't

And just how would you know you were knocked up at the first hour of conception ?
Ptak is right about all these fantasies and what if's.

You don't but if you had an unprotected sex, or really want to make sure you can't get pregnant you can take the morning after pill. Which is already questionable to many conservatives.

And who said I would know? Don't add your own narrative.

Nobody said you would know.
That was not stated in the 'literal' sense being directed at you personally but in a general sense.
Quit being so damn touchy by adding your own projected narrative.
If you women are so worried about getting pregnant then keep your knickers on, don't get drunk, and learn some morality.
That right there would cut down on 95% of unwanted pregnancies but hell no, blame it on the man raping you.
You can't rape the willing my dear.
And yes, women in their child bearing ages are just as horny as men and don't try to say different.

Whatever your rant is about it doesn't matter in what we are actually discussing- abortion in the case of rape.

Just to be clear:


The End.


It is not unrealistic or fantasy to suggest that a child might want to know where they came from one day.

Many adopted children wonder about their birth parents and some go to the extent of tracking them down.

I know two people who have done precisely that, one of them being my ex-mother-in-law. She was born in London and found out her birth mother was Irish and living back in Ireland. She traced where she was living and turned up on her doorstep. When she explained who she was, her birth mother said, " Didn't want you then, don't want you now." and slammed the door in her face.

The other one is a friend who found her birth mother. No joyful reunion.

It's all academic anyway, I was merely responding to Torq's suggestion of adoption. I would not be going through with a pregnancy after rape under any circumstances. Make of it what you will.

Nor should you have to.


that was exceedingly.... clueless of the ex-MIL... rather than just show up out of the blue discreet inquiries should be made first, preferably through a third party. I get that that's not always possible but it can also set off a neutron bomb in the biological mother's life....

Oh, you made it abundantly clear: instead of giving birth to your child (it would have your genes too, after all), you would rather murder it because of something that its father did.

Torq, highlighting it doesn't change the fact that many people don't consider early stage abortion as murder. Not to mention

I'm surprised you even allow abortion in the case of mother's health of life being at risk. After all who are we to choose which one of them should live...

It doesn't matter what position the pope takes; it is not part of the official dogma of the RCC, as far as I know.


Since all people die anyway, why is murder against the law? According to your logic, such a law is just nonsense.
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She is one with a sick imagination, imagining rape. Paulina] what about women and girls who were abducted by the rapists and raped for days, and they did get pregnant?
My goodness, seek help, Paulina.
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Few things come to mind in no particular order.
First, Torq can come across as dramatic, but that doesn't mean he's entirely wrong.
Second, is that some women handle? In place of arguments, a game about likes and dislikes - you do not like women? Why, because he doesn't like to murder kids?
There are plenty of women who don't particularly like men, but that often isn't judged as harshly when it comes from women.
Another thing, those women who advocate for abortion are not very nice or wise people. Why should anyone have to like them?

Does he?

Scenario hypothetique: A married woman with no kids is raped and wants to keep and raise the baby. Her husband does not want any part of that scenario. Should he:

Leave the woman.

Eat the humiliation he feels and support the rapist's child financially?

Something else?

I would be for abortion, but with a caveat that it would be possible ten years after pregnancy.
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In certain circumstances, some people do not consider rape - rape. What kind of argument is that? Do you think you can make an argument, Cherry?

Too late for that...

OMG, my thoughts exactly, Feniks! I've noticed this too! I think for women he lacks the same level of empathy/understanding that he has for men... It's as if he doesn't treat women like 100% human beings or something. 🤨


Which Catholic tradition are you talking about? Do you even know what you're talking about?

The theologians of the early Church (early Christians) were pretty anti-killing of any sort. Some were so pacifist that they were not only against the death penalty, but also against Christians serving in the military or even killing someone in self-defence. Hippolytus of Rome, one of the most important second-third centuries Christian theologians, urged priests to deny baptism to any soldier whatsoever. "A military man in authority must not execute men. If he is ordered, he must not carry it out" ("Apostolic Tradition," 16.9).

Those who were in favour of death penalty were of an opinion that it should be used as rarely as possible, in grave instances, if there's no other way and no chance for moral improvement in the perpetrator.

From what I've read that changed after the 4th century after the integration of the Church with the Roman state. So are you following a Christian tradition or a Roman tradition?

To sum up, it looks to me that The Second Vatican Council is more in line with the actual teachings/mindset of the early Church which were obviously directly based on the actual teachings of Christ. You know, those teachings that Christians are supposed to follow? 🙄

So, no, John Paul II and other bishops weren't influnced by "masons, protestants, leftards and other retards, and shifted its position to anti death penalty." From what I can see they were influnced by teachings of the early Christians (and that of Jesus himself, obviously).


No, I don't. I don't know if you're that stupid or intentionally disingenuous and manipulative. I talked about "actual teachings of Christ" in regard to John Paul's stance on death penalty.


I don't have to imagine it, you idiot. You can read articles and watch documentaries about it on TV and on YouTube. It's all real and happening in this world, unfortunately.

That's it for now. I have some more comments/responses, thoughts and observations (and more knowledge to share 🧐), but I'm not going to spend my whole weekend on this. So I'll probably get back to it some other time.

Fantasize about it then.

@Ironside, why would I do that? Are you sick in the head? Or is this something you like imagining yourself? If that's the case then don't project your sick fantasies on me. 🤮

This is why nobody likes you, Novi. Anyway, let the b!tch do whatever she wants with her body. As long as she isn´t married and bound to some poor guy that has a vested interest in the offspring, then what the hell.

Still waiting for an answer to my hypothetical situation: A childless but married woman is raped and becomes pregnant. She decides to keep and raise the baby as her own....

What options should the husband have?

Is it okay for him to say "Do what you want, but I want a divorce."?

Why? (or why not?)

Not what I would have done either but this was a long time ago. I don't know if any enquiries were made beforehand but maybe she just felt she needed to know where she came from. She had a really tough early start to her life and ended up in the Victorian workhouse system at some point:

historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Victorian-Workhouse/


Actually, what I should have said was that he doesn't like women who make choices outside his very traditional views. It's not for this thread, but he often makes disparaging comments about women who choose careers and decide not to have children.

It is not for him to judge women who make choices that are right for them, whatever those choices may be.


Hence my reference to The Stepford Wives ;)

.

That is an excellent question. Why do you ask me?
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According to your logic, put them all against the wall and shoot. After all, people die anyway; what is the difference?
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@Lenka


Lenka my dear, the problem here is the same as it has been many times before between us.
Your interpretation of my American English by you is taken in the wrong context..
Being English is your second language it is most understandable.
You need no defense or excuse for that.
I will offer a softer approach next time that it happens now that I understand the problem.
My apologies.

Here is my final actionable list on the rape-pregnancy-abortion issue, based on Novi's points:

1. Rape.

2. (Required) 911 / Police report .

3. (Required) Hospital to get a DNA sample and flush the sperm out.

In case of pregnancy:

4. (Required) A consultation with a licensed psychologists or a priest.

5. (Optional) Legal and free abortion, but only after verifying the child's DNA matches the DNA sample from the police report and the woman signing a document stating that she is willfully killing a living organism who would become a fully grown human within a few months.

In point #5, I wrote "the child's DNA" and I paused. I hope women will also pause when reading the instructions.

There is no sperm flush out!!!

1, 2, and 3 - no pregnancy. Just a bad memory.

4. (Required) A test to detect deception.

One 911 operator said that over half of domestic violence calls she handled were lies.