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Abortion still under control in Poland


4 eigner 2 | 831
14 Nov 2012 #541
Yes, you can.

Although by law a fetus within the womb is technically not a human being, consider these things: the fetus's heart is beating, its brain is functioning, and it already has all the genes in its cells to tell all of the traits of the soon-born child. This is how scientists define living organisms, isn't it?
Barney 15 | 1,477
14 Nov 2012 #542
Smurf I'm not anti abortion just anti nonsense.

Pundone I too am against abortion as first line contraception but it is the woman’s body we are talking about here. If she wants to kill the child it’s her choice.

Why do many have no problem defending war or military action which always results in death but use weasel words to describe the thing growing inside a pregnant woman as anything other than a life?
4 eigner 2 | 831
14 Nov 2012 #543
but it is the woman’s body we are talking about here

no, it's the body inside of her body, we're talking about here.
jon357 66 | 17,069
14 Nov 2012 #544
Which isn't yet viable.
Barney 15 | 1,477
14 Nov 2012 #545
no, it's the body inside of her body, we're talking about here.

A woman has the right to decide what she does with her body especially the right to control her fertility.
jon357 66 | 17,069
14 Nov 2012 #546
A very sad story.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/9676626/Pregnant-woman-dies-after-being-denied-an-abortion-in-Ireland.html
4 eigner 2 | 831
14 Nov 2012 #547
A woman has the right to decide what she does with her body

agree, as long as she decides about HER body and not the body inside of her that she helped creating (very actively too).

I'm gonna repeat myself, abortion out of emergency YES, abortion out of convenience NO,

Cary the consequences of your actions people. Act like adults. If you're old enough to f/ck, you're old enough to raise a child too, end of story.

If you're not ready to raise a child, don't f'ck or use contraception, simple as that.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
14 Nov 2012 #549
Women should be allowed to have abortions shortly after conception but to take it to the point where the woman is already several months pregnant is ridiculous. The argument the woman is trying to avoid changes to her body becomes completely absurd by then and late term abortion is murder pure and simple.
pgtx 30 | 3,157
14 Nov 2012 #550
Late term abortion... Hmm.. I don't think many woman would decide to do it anyway. Man will never understand how womans body changes at that time and also the attachement to the growing belly. And those crazy horomones :)! Sorry guys, but you have no idea yet so opinionated you are.

Beside how late? Because it can be considered early delivery and a premee.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
14 Nov 2012 #551
I am pretty much pro choice, just not about mid and late term abortion. Once the embryo's cns is developed, should the woman have the right to abort?

The morning after pill, for example. I am all for that and feel no woman should be restricted about obtaining them.
pgtx 30 | 3,157
14 Nov 2012 #552
People don't know how the morning after pill really works. It is not a form of abortion.

And yes, a woman should have a choice.

Should abortion be threated as a contraceptive? Absolutaly no.

I am pro choice but it is not up to me to decide for others.
Wroclaw Boy
14 Nov 2012 #553
And those crazy horomones :)! Sorry guys, but you have no idea yet so opinionated you are.

You should see me when im hungry, you wouldnt like me when im hungry. Those low blood sugar levels are real mood killers.
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Nov 2012 #554
If men could get pregnant, I can imagine some of them bragging about how many abortions they had.
TommyG 1 | 361
14 Nov 2012 #555
You should see me when im hungry, you wouldnt like me when im hungry. Those low blood sugar levels are real mood killers.

Does hunger make you cranky for at least a week, if not two...? :D

If men could get pregnant, I can imagine some of them bragging about how many abortions they had.

We men aren't like that at all... I like abortons, but I couldn't eat a whole one.... :D
Sorry, I'm just trying to lighten the mood;)
smurf 39 | 1,981
14 Nov 2012 #556
have no problem defending war or military action

I have never defended war or military action, I'd never ever wear that blood soaked poppy.
Neutrality all the way baby :)
natasia 3 | 368
14 Nov 2012 #557
just pours oil on troubled water

erm ... that actually means to calm troubled waters ... I think you meant the opposite ...

Conception is the moment life starts if life starts at a later point I would love to hear when.

Thank you, Barney. Normal understanding. Like, birds fly, the sea is wet, and life starts at conception. Someone on a life support machine would be, by definition of 'life support', be dead if not on it. etc.

I really really find it hard to understand why people have this kind of obsession with arguing against facts like this. It seems ... perverse.

Barney,why is it that if someone kills a pregnant woman that they are charged with a double homicide?

That is a GOOD fact, p3! I didn't know that! So ... if a woman is on her way to get an abortion, and is murdered, then it is killing a life, but if she had made it to the clinic and aborted the baby that would just have been a medical procedure and her absolute right not to carry a child if she didn't fancy it ... and there we have the whole stupid double-standards cr@p.
Wroclaw Boy
14 Nov 2012 #558
Like, birds fly, the sea is wet, and life starts at conception.

Birds have wings, the sea is wet, life starts way before conception.
natasia 3 | 368
14 Nov 2012 #559
Well, yes, I do agree with that in a way, but that is a conversation for a glass of wine and no curfew ...
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Nov 2012 #560
So although she had a miscarriage, the fetus still had a heartbeat,
Irish law allows abortions if it threatens the mother's life, this was not even an abortion as she already had the miscarriage.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, maybe I already have? but we should really wait for the results of the investigation.
goofy_the_dog
15 Nov 2012 #561
I wonder what are the laws of abortion in Muslim countries with Shariah law??
It is a pitty that nobody speaks about that... :/

Cheers
Harry
15 Nov 2012 #562
More legal that it is in Ireland. Or Poland. As recent events have shown.
smurf 39 | 1,981
15 Nov 2012 #563
The thing in Ireland is absolute nonsense.
I'll try and make this short.

20 years ago (X-case) the judiciary ruled that abortion is allowed when the birth threatens the life of the mother.
2 more case have come up and have used this as a ruling, therefore a precedence has been set. It has not been written into law, but Ireland being a common law country means that once a precedence is set it can be used in similar cases

The lady who died last week was legally entitled to have a termination. The idiotic people who treated her denied her this right. Somehow they claimed that as "a Catholic country" abortion was not allowed. They were wrong, termination is allowed in such cases. I sincerely hope that the people responsible are brought to trial under murder charges, if not then at the very least manslaughter charges.

I hope the b@stards are sent to the gallows. I'd go Judge Dredd on the f$ckers and send them to the dogs.

Irish law allows abortions if it threatens the mother's life, this was not even an abortion as she already had the miscarriage.

She was having a miscarriage, the fetus was dying. She hadn't already had one. (did you read the links?)
They deemed, wrongfully, that so long as there was a heartbeat they couldn't give her a termination. When it did finally die, after 3 days of being in constant pain, the woman became infected with septicemia and died a few days later.

The baby could not in any way have be saved, the woman could've been.
goofy_the_dog
15 Nov 2012 #564
Somehow they claimed that as "a Catholic country" abortion was not allowed. They were wrong, termination is allowed in such cases.

Maybe what they wanted to say is that because they were Catholics hence their faith doesn't allow them to kill or give right to kill another human being?

If you would like to force people to commit sins then you are an ignorant man. Sometimes you just have to understand that some people have different opinions on certain subjects.

Cheers
smurf 39 | 1,981
15 Nov 2012 #565
How f@ckin dare you! Who do you think you are? The cheek of you.

Listen here buddy a woman died because some clown who didn't know his job let her die.
Legally speaking, she was entitled to have a termination. This has nothing, nothing whatsoever to do with committing a 'sin'. Read the links. The fetus was dying, it could not have been saved. Do you understand that? Do you?

The life of the mother could have been saved, yet it was not.

to say is that because they were Catholics hence their faith doesn't allow them to kill or give right to kill another human being?

That has nothing to do with saving the life of the woman. Did you even bother to read the story? No, I bet not, just thought you'd wade in and give an opinion befoer even reading up on the particulars. The feutus was fooking dying. You didn't read the story, that's obvious.

And even if it was the case then the Doctor must remove himself from the equation and another doctor should take over proceedings.
Harry
15 Nov 2012 #566
Sometimes you just have to understand that some people have different opinions on certain subjects.

In my belief system racist scum must be denied any and all medical treatment: it is a sin to provide them with such. Can I be in charge of deciding on your treatment the next time you get sick?
goofy_the_dog
15 Nov 2012 #567
I have read the story, all the liberal media in UK is just shouting mad about how Ireland is a bad country (Catholic country) etc...

It wasn't a feutus it was a living baby, thats for the first.
Just because it was dying did not mean that it had to be aborted. A lot of people should understand that life should not be treated like an object, a rubbish that can be thrown away at any moment.

From time to time there are example of great love, where mother's decide to give birth although they risk their lives for the sake of their children. This is what motherhood is all about.

Personally I think that sometimes things like that happen, saying that if they would kill the baby than she would be still alive is really selfish and egoistic...

Cheers
smurf 39 | 1,981
15 Nov 2012 #568
Only a man would know so much about pregnancy. *rollseyes

Personally I think that sometimes things like that happen,

That's quite symphatic, maybe you should call her husband and family. They'd love to hear from you.

saying that if they would kill the baby than she would be still alive is really selfish and egoistic...

You are wrong, you didn't read the article. You are lying.

Cheers

And stop putting that at the end of your posts.

Cheers (.....see, it's soooo condescending)
Neob91 - | 1
15 Nov 2012 #569
Don't you think that abortion is just a device invented by the politicians to distract the public from much more important things that they don't want looked upon?
natasia 3 | 368
15 Nov 2012 #570
Yes, I would certainly entertain that thought. I find it fairly astonishing that some things they do aren't even commented upon, or at least not by the general populace.

Oh, it's all a big con, it's all about money and making things go the way they want, and about power.

Legally speaking, she was entitled to have a termination.

And it wouldn't even have been a termination, strictly speaking, because the pregnancy had already failed. A termination is deliberately intervening to end a pregnancy, which in turn of course terminates the life of the unborn child. In this situation the unborn child was already doomed, and a natural termination was already in process. To aid this process medically, to make it as safe as possible for the mother, and frankly to make it as quick as possible for the dying child, would have been the merciful and surely medically correct thing.

You would have thought that on such an issue, the Irish authorities could have made sure that every health professional in the land knew the rules. Ie, that if it was a case of an emergency such as this, and the life of the mother in danger, then the natural process should have been managed and assisted.


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