How could PiS better spend billions instead of 500+ ?

Or perhaps more successful.

I've certainly not had the 'success' of achieving a 5 year jail sentence for 'working hard' however I've certainly done rather well in life and done it without getting more money from other peoples labour than they do themselves.


Fine. Pay no tax and live on Aynrand Island. Just don't use our roads, street lighting, water supply and drainage or rely on the police or army to protect you.

Meanwhile, PiS, whether you like them or not, have introduced the 500+ programme. Something that has lifted children out of poverty and is commendable.

@jon357


That's the type of arguments that made me want to move abroad. Some people just don't appreciate other peoples work

And others think they have the right to 'profit' from it.

If you did move abroad, you may well be disappointed though. I've spent a lot of time in countries with a tiny public sector, low tax revenue and wild-west capitalism and can assure you that the developed societies of Europe are easier, better and safer places to live in.

This is undoubtedly true

@jon357
Right or not, the need to earn enough to achieve one's goals will still be there until achieved.

Drinking just beer and watching television isn't for everybody

That doesn't make much sense. However if you are talking about achieving goals, believe you me, goals are far easier to achieve in a developed society.


Hard to know what you mean here.

@jon357
Let's just say that I was too ambitious and too high and lofty goals and ideas and wants compared to my former countrymen and colleagues.

It's great to be able to settle for less and live a good life, experience taught me that's not an option for the likes of me. Developed society or not, if it thinks I shouldn't exist or be part of it or have no place in it. I might as well move to my own island, imaginated or not!

Why settle for less?

A strong public infrastructure, good public services, high levels of consumer protection, a strong public health service and lower levels of poverty and income inequality are not 'less'. They are more.


Does society think that?

@jon357
Most does

That sounds very cynical and a long way from reality.

@jon357
In what way cynical? I used to be naive and hopeful and tried to be normal in every possible way without being accepted. I just had to accept the fact of being unwanted

Who is it that you think doesn't want you?

Ding Dong We have a winner! Thanks to PiS we are never going back to the dziki kapitalism of the 90s and 00s.

Private highways owned by post communist oligarch are going to be made free, ie pay them a less money than individual polish citizens, negotiate the amount under threat of nationalisation, that's a pretty radical policy.

I just hope the next goverment is a coalition with partia razem rather than the neo-liberal konfa.

@jon357
If you understood the tax system you would know that I have to pay taxes in Poland and the US. All income in Poland is automatically reported in the US now.

The whole 500+ idea is a good one, poorly implemented. 800+ again a good idea but does not keep pace with inflation since 500+ began, and still poorly implemented.

That's a fault of the US not in any way Poland's. I offloaded the stock I'd bought on Wall Street a few years ago due to changes in the annoying paperwork that I had to complete for a government which is not my own. Better to invest in UK/Eurozone or even Polish shares.


I'd hazard a guess that such a major programme is nigh impossible to implement perfectly. Nevertheless it has to exist and has made a real difference to people's lives. It increases consumer spending too.

I disagree. If it is an opt in annual program, then its pretty easy to put in an income qualification next year. Just a little programming. And given the amount of banking and other technical security here, that would be a very quick technical fix.

No real need for an 'opt in' programme. One reason Child Benefit was such a success in the UK is that it was paid to all, automatically. The better off got some of their taxes back that way and the less well off got much needed support without the perceived indignity of claiming welfare. Those in the majority middle got both.

@jon357
Those without children pay for everyone. It is not an equitable program when the wealthy benefit and those that are not wealthy and do not have children have to pay for it. The progam is already an opt in one every year, so to make it based on income is an easy and equitable fix.

A very small price indeed to not be surrounded in their old age by ill-fed, poorly-educated hooligans and of course it makes up for the fiscal cost to society of people not having kids to look after them. A more equitable society is in every case a better society.


And a largely pointless one, as well as potentially stigmatising poorer families.

Better to pay it universally, which was a complete success in the UK just as it is working very well indeed in Poland.

A rather pointless comment above, however decent societies make sure that all children are looked after regardless of any other factor.

500+ is part of this and has been a success.

That's bullsh1t. PiS doesn't care about any "accusations" or criticism. They do whatever they want.


Of course not.


What? lol Trust me, if people need money, they don't care about getting "stigmatised". They just want the money or any help they qualify for.

Poor families are already getting social benefits from the state (if they qualify). Maybe we all should be getting them, so those poorer families wouldn't feel "stigmatised"? lol Sorry, but that's ridiculous and it wouldn't be sustainable.

They saw how well it worked to increase the Black population in the U.S.A. that PiS implemented it into Poland to increase Poland's population.

The more kids a woman has, the more free money she gets.
It has become a profession and a way of life for these women.
And the working people pay for it while their retirement benefits, that they paid into all their lives, get cut to help to support this b.s., without a vote of how our money is being spent.

Welcome to Socialism.

But it doesn't work in Poland! It worked somewhat at the beginning, but later it stopped working and the number of children being born keeps falling:

rp.pl/budzet-i-podatki/art36015231-pan-program-500-nie-zwiekszyl-dzietnosci-tylko-inflacje

Even PiS government admitted that 500+ doesn't increase the birth rate:

businessinsider.com.pl/twoje-pieniadze/praca/rzad-przyznaje-ze-500-plus-nie-zwieksza-dzietnosci/p7de1pc

Maybe that is why they raised it to 800+.
The women on welfare in the U.S.A. are averaging almost $2000 USD a month for having only one bastard child.
Poland should feel lucky to be robbed of 500+.

@johnny reb, no, they raised it to 800+, because elections are coming in Poland and they want to win votes. Also, there's a high inflation in Poland and that 500+ is worth less and less.

Paulina, it is the same story here in the U.S.A. only much worse.
We have inflation too.
You are singing to the choir.
Plus we have an open border bringing in millions of votes for the Democrats in return for free housing, free food, free healthcare, free cell phones, free schooling costing the tax payers Trillions of dollars.

I know what you are saying about buying votes in Poland.
It's called, "Polytricks".

What's the 'lol' for? Don't be rude.

Some people certainly do care about the stigma of poverty. In small communities especially everyone finds out if a family are on the brew in some way and this does put people off applying for help for which they are fully entitled. Welfare is not only for the most destitute and perceived stigma is very much one of the stated reasons that universal Child Benefit is universal.

In the small community I'm from, every woman with kids, from the richest to the poorest collected their Child Benefit from the post office on the same day, and not even the worst gossiping bitter hag could know for sure who didn't need it and who need3d it to the extent that it was the difference between eating badly and eating well.


That's the whole damn point of Child Benefit.

Sad that you 'lol' about tried and tested ways to reduce child poverty.

The other damn point is, "If you can't feed them, don't breed them !"

Yet people do have kids even though they're not best equipped to look after them.

Feel free to be judgemental about the parents from behind a computer screen. The important thing (and part of society's collective role) is that children get fed, clothed etc and have a good a start in life as we can give them regardless of what a judgemental individual thinks of the parents.

After all, nobody wants the next generation to repeat the mistakes of the last.

First they need to be bought out by the gov which is going to cost a dozen billion zlotys. All Poles will have to pay for that, also pensioners who don`t use highways.


Bollox. Let me remind you this is still a democratic country and communist methods don`t work here. If you insist and apply them in practice, you have to pay huge fines, ruled by European courts.


You are indeed a mad bolshevik. hahaha