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Pawel Adamowicz, Gdansk mayor, dies after stabbing


delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
15 Jan 2019 #31
He clearly wants to be famous so I suggest we don't use his name here... deprive him of the attention he craves.

Yes, of course! Mods, would you be kind enough to delete his name for me, please?

He's an absolute cretin. It's just amazing that people don't even do the most basic of research into their 'source' before posting it as fact.

Have you seen the disgusting material broadcast last night on Wiadomośći? Even the right wing political commentators are disgusted by it, which says something.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
15 Jan 2019 #32
Again the order is wrong, he wasn't a mentally ill person damaged by prison

you talking BS and i stated 10 times that he was diagnosed and treated for schizophrenia for years,since his teen age and long before he ended in prison.

he chose a life of crime and then manifested schizophrenia - not the reverse

quite reverse..he was schizophrenic and was treated in specialized hospitals long before he committed hes first crime.
jon357 63 | 15,120
15 Jan 2019 #33
i stated 10 times

Indeed...

he was schizophrenic and was treated in specialized hospitals long before he

Treating (and living with) schizophrenia, Gregy, isn't an exact science. Many people, whether career criminals or completely law-abiding or (like most of us) somewhere in between have had schizophrenic symptoms at various points in their lives, have been treated with various medications and therapies at different times and with varying ddgrees of success, have had episodes with varying degrees of severity and have lives impacted to deifferent degrees and in different ways by the illness.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
15 Jan 2019 #34
he chose a life of crime and then manifested schizophrenia - not the reverse

and paranoid schizophrenic doesn't "choose live of crime" hes way of live is determined by hes illness

have been treated with various medications and therapies

dont you think that treating em by placing among criminals is kinda controversial method?
thats what am argue about all the time...prison is not place for therapy or treating mental illness
mafketis 24 | 8,707
15 Jan 2019 #35
that he was diagnosed and treated for schizophrenia for years,

source? the only source I found indicated he was first diagnosed as schizo while in custody in 2016... he had other developmental and emotional problems but those don't excuse his carefully thought out crimes
jon357 63 | 15,120
15 Jan 2019 #36
schizophrenic doesn't "choose live of crime" hes way of live is determined by hes illness

Gregy, people who have schizophrenia are not always (or usually) gibbering wrecks incapable of making rational choices. One of my oldest friends recently got a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia for which he's receiving treatment. He works as a senior Quantity Surveyor and has a very full life.

Evidently you think 'a paranoid schizophrenic' doesn't choose a life of Quantity Surveying' since you think his 'way of life is determined by his illness'.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
15 Jan 2019 #37
source?

from your own link:
W młodości był leczony w Poradni Zdrowia Psychicznego.
seems like you dont even read link you post
mafketis 24 | 8,707
15 Jan 2019 #38
So now you're a fan of wyborcza? Anyway, nothing there contradicts the source I posted. So I still win, I'm done with this, be happy with your murderer friend (maybe you can become pen pals). I'm more worried about the emotional wreckage he's inflicted on others...

W młodości był leczony w Poradni Zdrowia Psychicznego.

Nothing about a diagnosis of schizophrenia... he had other problems too, big deal I don't care none of it excuse him (though your devotion to him his almost touching)
Jaskier
15 Jan 2019 #39
Another aspect of course is what portion of responsibility there is when someone stops taking drugs knowing what illlness they have... I always wondered about that. Why do they stop when they know how dangerous it is. Side effects?
gregy741 4 | 1,204
15 Jan 2019 #40
diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia for which he's receiving treatment. He works as a senior Quantity Surveyor and has a very full life.

geeeezes bloo..christ
thats what am arguing about .... in normal care and normal environment,this can be manageable...
this guy was lock with criminals...that is not place for therapy..in the UK you cant even work with them if you have criminal record,let alone putting them to live with criminals.
jon357 63 | 15,120
15 Jan 2019 #41
this can be manageable...

In most cases it is managed, and in any case symptoms come and go.

this guy was lock with criminals.

Because he committed an armed robbery.

in the UK you cant even work with them if you have criminal record,

Yes you can. The enhanced disclosure doesn't neccessarily block someone for employment. Some of the most effective practitioners working with criminals who have health issues are themselves ex-cons.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
15 Jan 2019 #42
The enhanced disclosure doesn't neccessarily block someone for employment.

no but put restrictions,such as working only under supervision ect.there are risk assessments done,so for example,convicted rapist wont be allowed around young girls ect.

and ,ex -con working in charity with mental person is quite different situation than mental guy being placed in prison.dont u think?
mafketis 24 | 8,707
15 Jan 2019 #43
If you dig long enough you can find mental problems with almost all criminals... do you want to close all prisons? there's no evidence that the killer of Adamowicz had any condition severe enough to exculpate his criminal actions until his schizo diagnosis in 2016 (again about the time that particular illness manifests) long after the criminal actions that had gotten him imprisoned in the frist place.

Now... I have no concern for him whatsoever, as long as he's never free again they can dope him to the gills for the rest of his misbegotten life.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,528
15 Jan 2019 #44
If you dig long enough you can find mental problems with almost all criminals... do you want to close all prisons?

The enlightened position is that the mentally ill criminals who killed should not be executed, for example.
This makes no sense. They should be and ahead of the sane ones. At least the sane ones can be reasoned with and repaired. The insane cannot so the can kill again for no reason and without any provocation because they are insane. Give a bank robber a job and chances are he will quit robbing banks.

Another thing...Why would any Polish politician sponsor or participate in a "gay" parade? There are no "masturbation" parades. No "masochists" parades. Or schizophrenics parades. So what's so special about "gay" parades in a country like Poland where 95% (just guessing) feel like throwing up at the very thought about what "gays" do.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
15 Jan 2019 #45
Yep, by mentally ill ex-con. Due to lax security standards.
jon357 63 | 15,120
15 Jan 2019 #46
If you dig long enough you can find mental problems with almost all criminals

This is true. We don't however know his mental state at the moment; doubtless there will be a full assessment before any trial.

He seemed to have a grudge against the centre right Platforma Obywstelstwa. I'm sure his personal history will be examined and any sort of political influence that can be proven will be proven.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
16 Jan 2019 #47
Sure, it should be examined. It could be some shady contacts dead mayor had with mafia. They might be worried that he will rat on them if persecution would put pressure on him.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,274
16 Jan 2019 #48
it should be examined. It could be some shady contacts

Yeah, sure. no, what should be examined is the Polish right wing. It should have been dealt with in the 1920s after the Narutowicz outrage, and in today's world there should be no place for it.

I'm done with Poland and PIS defending the illiterate mob. The government can fukk right off as soon as I extricate myself from my responsibilities. I suggest that young people with talent do the same.
jon357 63 | 15,120
16 Jan 2019 #49
It could be some shady contacts dead mayor had with mafia.

Don't be silly.

It should have been dealt with in the 1920s after the Narutowicz outrage,

It was dealt with in the late 40s and early 50s, however unfortunatately every generation seems to throw up its own crazies. Oddly enough, many of them grew up in party backgrounds, even nomenklatura.
mafketis 24 | 8,707
16 Jan 2019 #50
Oddly enough, many of them grew up in party backgrounds

Has anyone researched what I call the semi-party people? I mean any cursory look at the PRL makes it clear that in addition to official party members there was a group of people with informal contacts (sort of insulation between the party and non-party members).

It's clear that JK came from that kind of background (his biography makes no sense otherwise)

How big was this... insulation group.... what did they get from the arrangement and what did they give?

I can understand that the people themselves (and their descendants) don't want too much publicity but it's a really understudied area in understanding how the PRL actually functioned .

I'm also unclear if there was a similar situation in other countries....
jon357 63 | 15,120
16 Jan 2019 #51
there was a group of people with informal contacts (sort of insulation between the party and non-party members).

Plus all the 'allied' parties and various fellow travellers. Quite a few people have stayed under the radar that way. Even in the PRL, 3 million Poles were members, most of them ordinary people and 300,000 Poles were nomenklatura with immunity from normal arrest plus some other goodies, and usually very skilled at working the system.

I doubt that Wilmont came from that background, however some people are easily influenced.
mafketis 24 | 8,707
16 Jan 2019 #52
and 300,000 Poles were nomenklatura with immunity from normal arrest

yeah, what I mean might be referred to as non-party nomenklatura... they definitely existed, but no one except me seems very interested in them

I doubt that Wilmont came from that background

I'm assuming his background is rough working class (or as rough as working class gets in Poland, which is not very...) or margines / patologia...

But the message was against the party, not the person he killed. He clearly articulated his motivation as revenge against a particular political party, which brings up the question... where on earth would he get the idea that PO was full of criminals and that the justice system under them was hopelessly corrupt?

It was a politically motivated hate crime (committed by a crazy person off his meds).
Ironside 49 | 10,452
16 Jan 2019 #53
, what should be examined is the Polish right wing.

Nah, all commies like you should be deal with in a commie style.

It was a politically motivated hate crime

That or what I said. To work up a crazy person is not that difficult. Those who wanted to get rid of the mayor - a man who knew too much. Is a possibility.

clear that in addition to official party members there was a group of people with informal contacts (sort of insulation between the party and non-party members).

Dude who cares at this point? Eh? Not even Kiszczak or other monsters have been touched. So what is the point of looking for some vague association?>

Are you like some 'smart' American who said that poles should strike or at lest demonstrate against the Nazi's anti-Semitic policies in German occupied Poland. The fact they didn't is a final proof they agreed with such a policy? Real smart.
mafketis 24 | 8,707
16 Jan 2019 #54
Dude who cares at this point?

I think it's an interesting question - there's a lot of how the PRL worked (or didn't work) in practice that's been forgotten. I'm always interested in how social systems work. It's intellectual curiosity rather than any kind of political motivation.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
16 Jan 2019 #55
ehhhh.
man died..it time for some memories and reflections.
we all remember this 80 years old ,poor,sick man Wojciech Dabrowski.kicked out of hes social flat ,together with hes 80 years old wife...kicked out by Adamawicz.

he then decided to carry hunger strike in front of Adamowicz office,living there in a tent.. he was begging mighty major to meet and talk.2 months later he died.

poor old man died,before that ,Adamowicz people were harassing him,insulting,they put hefty fines on him...
if there is justice after life,this Adamowicz guy is in hell...rotting.
let us remember those poor and weak..killed by Adamowicz
dziennikbaltycki.pl/zmarl-wojciech-dabrowski-ktory-prowadzil-strajk-glodowy-przed-urzedem-miejskim-w-gdansku/ar/686017?fbclid=IwAR013hMxFKDIKLvpefMy13qjYDPX79UhhVCYRhrE_63U8Tu6XCaKzVO3xMU
mafketis 24 | 8,707
16 Jan 2019 #56
kicked out by Adamawicz.

Actually I'm pretty sure it was the court system.... What should the court have done (given the law in place then.... and now?)
gregy741 4 | 1,204
16 Jan 2019 #57
Actually I'm pretty sure it was the court system....

adamowicz people were the ones who sent request to court.
he could have at least let him in and talk to old man..maybe wave off some debts..he was 80 years old ,sick man after all.dont defend evil...

Adamowicz stole millions but he couldn't wave offf few thousands in debts to old sick couple.or at least talk to him
they watched him dying in front of hes office.

how ironic ,how Adamowicz use to go around and helped collecting money in front of cameras..money for poor and sick..and in front of hes window starving man was dying,being harrased,insulted by Adamowicz people..they put fines on poor old man, for obstructing sidewalk ect.

he couldn't pay hes rent,cus hes wife was sick.spend money for medication..he was only few months behind.
life is strange
adamowicz daughter has 2 apartments,stolen from public with the help of her daddy...maybe she could have let poor man live there...hmmm

here dying old man in front of mighty major office :

gdansk.naszemiasto.pl/artykul/gdansk-nie-zyje-wojciech-dabrowski-ktory-prowadzil-strajk,1591269,art,t,id,tm.html#9a31287c9510a8aa,1,3,4
mafketis 24 | 8,707
16 Jan 2019 #58
Adamowicz stole millions

If only the public prosecutors had your vast legal knowledge and your enviable store of evidence...

couldn't wave offf few thousands in debts to old sick couple.

a couple hundred thousand according to one account... why could solidarity or pis raise the money if they cared so much?
gregy741 4 | 1,204
16 Jan 2019 #59
a couple hundred thousand according to one account

link,or are you lying again? 40 k he had.
man or woman life worth more that any money.i know ,not for you and ppl like Adamowicz
Dougpol1 32 | 3,274
16 Jan 2019 #60
hes wife was sick.spend money for medication

Yes. Poland is behind France in amount of medicines bought. Both nations are hypochondriacs. As I understand it, both husband and wife had a pension. So what was the problem with paying rent on a communal flat? And why didn't they accept housing in Nowy Port when offered?

You don't know much about Gdansk do you Gregy? All the defaulters are placed in two areas - Nowy Port and Orunia. I don't agree with this "solution" myself,; both places are depressing, and whole families are left to rot. But they are not homeless.

Having said that, medicines that have been prescribed should be free in retirement. Would that be OK for you Gregy? Of course the Polish exchequer would have to drop some of the silly things our taxes do pay for, to pay for all the drugs that old people seem to think will keep them alive. Here's two money wasters for starters - the huge territorial "army" playing soldiers at weekends. And large swathes of the coal industry................


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