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"A merciful heart can share its bread with the hungry and welcome refugees and migrants" Pope Francis

milky 13 | 1,656
1 Aug 2016 #1
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,917
1 Aug 2016 #2
Does that include spilling your blood for the sake of dogma ?, or does the pope see the end of days and is just hurrying things on a bit

PRIEST STABBED Horror in Belgium as Father is knifed after he 'allowed asylum seeker into his home to use shower'
OP milky 13 | 1,656
1 Aug 2016 #3
When he started the trip on Wednesday, Francis said the killing of an elderly priest in France by suspected Islamist militants and a string of other attacks were proof the "world is at war" but that it was not caused by religion.

Pope Francis' prayer, which honored two Polish priests killed by Maoist guerillas in Peru in 1991, concluded by asking for the "gift of peace and of the elimination from our midst of the plague of terrorism."

The pope started his visit to Poland Wednesday by commenting to reporters with him on the plane from Rome that the recent spate of terrorists acts in Europe, including the killing Tuesday of a priest in northern France, was part of a war comparable to the world wars of the previous century.

Yet the pope's prayer also asked God for the "strength and courage to continue to be brothers and sisters for others, above all for immigrants."

The Pope can't be wrong!!
Atch 20 | 4,152
1 Aug 2016 #4
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church

Introduced in 1870.

Incidentally his comments re the present crisis in Europe don't constitute a doctrine of the Church so yes, he can be wrong, even within the definition of Papal infallibility.
smurf 39 | 1,966
1 Aug 2016 #5
proof the "world is at war" but that it was not caused by religion

Then he is very much wrong
There are two roots of evil in this world: greed and religion
All wars can be traced back to both

I think Frankie seems like a nice enough man though, I like the way he had a dig at the Polish bishops while here, saying something like there were spoiling themselves living lavish lifestyles. Chairman Jarek's lapdog Prime Minister described him yesterday on radio as 'simple'
dolnoslask 5 | 2,917
1 Aug 2016 #6
There are two popes walking this earth today, does anyone know what Pope Benedict XVI thinks about all this mess.

I know some may say he resigned, but I don't think god accepts resignations.
Atch 20 | 4,152
1 Aug 2016 #7
There are two popes walking this earth today

Interesting point but I think you could be starting another Papal schism if you carry on down this route!

God may not accept resignations but the Church does so that's that.
Ironside 51 | 12,447
1 Aug 2016 #8
"refugees and migrants"
Migrants is rather ambiguous what that even means without context. As for refugees - fair enough there is nothing new in this. Thing is, to be refugee one need to fulfill a certain conditions, those illegal immigrants from the middle east or God knows where from, do not met.

There are two roots of evil in this world: greed and religion

No, roots of all evil are stupid little, selfish people.
gregy741 5 | 1,232
1 Aug 2016 #9
HE wants open borders,but he himself lives behind 30 meters tall wall in luxury..Benedict was nice humble person.this one is a clown
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
1 Aug 2016 #10
However, Benedict had made sever missteps in his early life aka joining the Hitler Youth (either under duress or not), whereas luckily for the Vatican, Francis hasn't been burdened by such weighty baggage:-)
2 Aug 2016 #11
A merciful heart doesn't have to welcome all refugees and migrants. God has given us reason to choose the best ways of helping people. You're not helping either immigrants or your fellow countrymen by letting just anyone into your country. To begin with, people should be helped where they live. Effective measures should be taken to stop military conflicts in the Middle East (the American-inspired and supported "Arab spring") and let the local economies grow. What happens when you allow uncontrolled immigration is that you let in people who are incapable of accepting the local rules, religion, customs and culture. Some of them will be a permanent burden on the social security system (which is going to implode anyway), some of them will become radicalized and will spread hate or commit acts of terror, some of them will form isolated, culturally incompatible communities which disrupt national unity and continually demand special treatment, exemptions, privileges etc. As a result, they will be increasingly disliked by those who originally welcomed them into their country. This can be seen very clearly in the case of Muslim immigrants in the West. Some Muslims are peaceful people, and some have actually lived in Poland since the 17th century, but apparently the interpretation of jihad can stretch to include all kinds of atrocities against innocent civilians. This is why, in the current situation, we should only welcome refugees who can be clearly identified as persecuted Christians. If the Polish government had been stupid enough to yield to the EU pressure and allowed thousands of Muslim immigrants into the country, the World Youth Day could not have been safely organized in Poland. I am Catholic and I respect the Pope, but his message about welcoming immigrants should not be applied mechanically to all and sundry.
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
2 Aug 2016 #12
Partially agree, but you can't re-interpret Christian doctrine to fit today's ill-suited fashions, remember that:-)
nothanks - | 631
2 Aug 2016 #13
> Almost every fourth person in the EU was still at risk of poverty or social exclusion in 2014.

Europe is "out of bread". Take your message to Asia
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
2 Aug 2016 #14
"The boot is full!", is that the idea, nothanks?

While I can accept the fed-up feeling which has been slowly blanketing Europe for some time, I can't help but wish that Mis. Merkel and Szydło oughtn't figure out how their respective governments can use their largesse to fund anti-poverty programs respectively in Syria and elsewhere instead of having to ship boatloads of refugees to the teeming shores of countries such as England, Poland, and Germany which can barely handle their own, let alone unneeded surplus:-)
Szalawa 2 | 240
2 Aug 2016 #15
largesse to fund anti-poverty programs respectively in Syria and elsewhere

First you have to get that war managed, and stop the supply of weapons to the Islamist. Second is to invest in technologies that would help supply water and food such as building reverse osmosis desalinization plants, Third is educating the public about population control and the dangers of overpopulation. Having a small highly educated and advanced population where resources are plenty is an ideal environment to eradicate poverty. This of course can only happen if the population cooperates, and with all those jihadists around I don't think it is very likely
Wulkan - | 3,186
2 Aug 2016 #16
The Pope can't be wrong!!

I beg to differ, he is just a human. In fact, it looks like George Soros came up with a genius plan of sending some cash to Vatican lately.
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
2 Aug 2016 #17
They probably meant "The Pope can't be BOUGHT!" (Except if your name happens to be Pius)
nothanks - | 631
2 Aug 2016 #18
Third is educating the public about population control and the dangers of overpopulation.

ALOT of resources and time invested in strangers. Unless you believe Europeans owe it to the ME for Post WW1 manipulation, then I do not understand why Europeans are even involved. No other race seems to care.

Build a wall and instruct the Italian Navy to stop being a migrant taxi service. It is us vs them now.
OP milky 13 | 1,656
2 Aug 2016 #19
I wonder do the Catholics on this thread prefer this form of catholicism. Maybe this is the true message?
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
2 Aug 2016 #20
Nothanks, you'd likely be a Trump supporter if you lived in the States:-)

You're positing easy answers to complex problems! The solution is for the wealthier countries aka Northern Europe to build up or grow the economies of these poorer typically Muslim countries so that their arduous trecks to Poland, Germany etc. become unnecessary and the need for their arrival superfluous.

Furthermore, who says that ethnic Europeans, particularly in Scandinavia, only sit behind a desk as managers or become engineers?? Someone's got to remove the refuse, clean the streets etc... We all know why they'd rather die than denegrate themselves, but as there become fewer and fewer births from the rich nations, it looks like they'll have to start re-thinking the outdated myths of their current strategy.

Here in the States, things are similar but the workplace a bit more porous than in Europe and even W.A.S.P college kids (and a good deal older) from Mayflower pedigrees will often be seen as baristas in Starbucks, hair stylists, nail salon assistants and so forth.

Just maybe Europe might draw a lesson, huh?
Crow 159 | 9,023
3 Aug 2016 #21
Once upon a time there was idea of the old man that was common personification of our oldest Slavic (ie Sarmatian) ancestor. For our ancients He was known as Svetovid or Świętowit or Svątevit, etc, etc. But, there were some more spirits. We can`t recall any episode from past, any records that describe those spirits or gods as beings of hate on others, on non-Slavs (ie non-Sarmats). No, those entities were tolerant beings. They tolerated existence of non-Slavs and they tolerated existence of other religions, philosophies. They just didn`t focus on others but on us. Still, with the sword and fire of those who said that speak in the name of Zeus, Jupiter, Yahweh, Alah and Christ, hostile strangers, hunted people who believed in Svetovid and finally Svetovid was replaced by Christ.

Point is.. Svetovid was OUR thing. THAT is why Svetovid was hunted. Now, don`t complaint when others telling us what is good for us, while they telliing us what is good for THEM.
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
3 Aug 2016 #22
Times have changed, Crow, but if you mean that there should be a call for broader tolerance, I completely agree:-)

Unfortunately, the serious missteps of among others the Merkel have made tolerance challenging for far too many to adapt comfortably.
The fault therefore doesn't lie with the poor migrants, unwitting pawns in a game of global glory, but with those in gov't aka the EU which ought to have known and acted better!
Crow 159 | 9,023
3 Aug 2016 #23
Tolerance, yes. Help to refugees as much as we can, yes. Our survival and prosperity as Slavs is paramount for us, yes.

Exactly what would Svetovid tell to us.
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
3 Aug 2016 #24
??? I'm afraid you've lost me there, Crow! Sounds like your rambling......AGAIN:-)
Wulkan - | 3,186
3 Aug 2016 #25
Crow's rambling is better than your broken Polish or German
Szalawa 2 | 240
3 Aug 2016 #26
Unless you believe Europeans owe it to the ME for Post WW1 manipulation, then I do not understand why Europeans are even involved.

Nah, we don't owe them anything, they have to do it. Foreign intervention is what helped cause this mess, wrecking stable countries such as Libya and Syria was a huge mistake. It would also be a mistake electing the woman who helped make that happen, so if I could, I'd also be voting Trump. We have to protect our borders, our way of life depends on it. Syrians and other refugees have to go back and make their countries better, they have to defeat the Islamist if they are the so called moderates, not come to Europe and kill innocent people... They have to invest in their own technologies by putting in the effort to educate themselves and build an economy, not depend on others to do it for them. They have to realize as a nation that if they are to prevent poverty and if they want high living standards, they can not over populate the land.

4) Today it's war refugees, tomorrow it will be climate change. Point being most people will always seek to relocate to superior living standards.

And those lands will never improve if they keep on abandoning it, while they also put a strain on available resources in Europe. They have to adapt to their lands and the changing environment that's what we call adaptation, Europe does not owe them anything in this respect.

I do believe that we must take care of those closest to us, that if we thrive others nations might attempt to emulate our model.

Muslim lives are worth less than white European ones

No, just that Europeans need to insure their own survival as first priority

who's stopping an outsider from coming in with perhaps a "better" plan?

Israel can do it, they are much closer and a model nation for the middle east.

any vote for Trump is a vote for all the bigots

Trump is a vote for those who are frustrated.

a certain little man with a mustache also proposed a "final" solution to the internal problem of another "non-native ethnicity"

Now you have a nation, Israel, so it will not happen again. These migrants on the other hand already have a nation, they abandoned it instead of putting in the effort to improve it. How much work do you think went into Israel to get it into the state that it is now? it took a lot of dedication and commitment.

The sweat and blood of our ancestors is what made Europe what it is

Those that shall not work, shall not eat. A christian principle if I am not wrong
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
3 Aug 2016 #27
@Szalawa, you seem not to recognize certain facts of history, namely, that not all homogeneous ethnicities can physically remain, for reasons of either food shortages or lowering birth rates, in their country of origin aka their "own" country:-) Therefore, it is incumbent upon us on certain occasions to extend a helping hand as WE would want such in our case, let's not rationlize: NO man's an island.

The problem in Europe right now is merely that the EU has bitten off far more than it can possible chew, thus giving herself particularly and her member states in general, a permanent case of indigestionLOL


Birds of a feather flock together. What you meant to say was that my German and Polish are better than Crow's truly broken English, but you've too much pride to admit it. I know your type all too well.
nothanks - | 631
3 Aug 2016 #28
Thumbs up Szalawa

The problem in Europe right now is merely that the EU has bitten off far more than it can possible chew

In a more dark and less likely chance, this is a blessing. It is forcing us to come to grips with the boiling frog response to even [outside Europe] legal immigration into Europe.

IMO there are too many blacks in America and there are too many muslims in Europe. While there are relatively no muslims in the USA and relatively no blacks in Europe. You especially do not encounter as many poor muslims in the USA and vice versa with blacks in Europe.

But USA has no option. Europe still does, especially with individuals that possess dual citizenship. I applaud Germany last week raiding a mosque and France has shut down 20 mosques since December. The next step is regulating the Imams. We must draw the line with Islam in Europe and the 2015 Migrant Crisis might end up being our fork in the road

Lastly: remember the History of Nazis/Jews. In the near future Germany might be engaged in warfare with Turkey/Muslims and this would create conflict within Poland. I still envision the German people pulling a 180 degrees and in typical German style going overboard. This is the overwhelming concern with the "Return of the Right". Eventually lines become blurry IE spaniards will be targeted as Middle Eastern foreigners
kondzior 11 | 1,045
3 Aug 2016 #29
Francis actually goes against Scripture in his public stunts. He makes sure he has all the media attention on him before he goes and "humbly" washes feet (of Muslims, because that's the hot minority group right now) or "humbly" goes to confession (in a booth with the confessor and penitent in plain view where everyone can overhear him confessing his sins to God). He's the pharisee in the temple worshipping for the admiration and praise of everyone around him.

His silence on things is what's more astounding, where after the Cologne attacks he was more concerned about Europe's "humanistic spirit" being undermined than with the victims of all these migrants that have been loosed on Germany. And then he goes and says that this invasion is causing problems, but Europe can handle it. Either naive, hopelessly out of touch, or worse.

Christianity is not some weakling pusy as religion for dweebs. Liberals have been working for decades trying to skew its image that way, painting our Lord Jesus Christ as some communist weedsmoking limpwristed hippie preaching how nice it would be if "everyone were just nice to each other" in a half unconscious drug-fueled state.

Now this is what Jesus Christ really teaches:

I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Matthew 10 is more about spiritual warfare, though. Sometimes this necessitates physical violence, either for self-defense or just war, but the spiritual aspect of being at odds with enemies "even of one's own household" is the emphasis. Taking up your cross will usually mean being at war with the world and with yourself. Remember that Jesus' kingdom was not of this world, and had to rebuke Peter to teach him this.

Christianity is not about just blindly accepting punishment (contemporary over-emphasis on "turning the other cheek" plays a part in this), but denying one's self and rejecting sin and the world for eternal life. It's not about establishing a utopia through violence, but of conquering the real paradise through perfection and God's grace.

The Islamic parallel is of course the Greater Jihad being spiritual, the lesser with the physical. I think Wahhabism has turned this upside down.
Lyzko 45 | 9,497
3 Aug 2016 #30
@Nothanks, the analogy with Nazi Germany and the Jews is perhaps well-meaning, but faulty and easily misunderstood as "historical relativism"!

The Muslims are non-German speaking, recent and unwelcome arrivals to Germany, brought in by boatload (potential future voting block, don't forget) with one momma of time required to integrate...if they ever can:-) A number have steadfastly and openly REFUSED to do so.

The Jews had been living, working and contributing to the host culture for nearly two-thousand years, practically since the fall of the Roman Empire, a people who assimilated to the point of nearly losing their own identity, JUST to do their host culture proud because they grew to love Germany. Furthermore, the German-Jewish symbiosis was as nearly complete as any other in history; they displayed Christmas trees in their homes, they joined the army to fight against England, gave their lives for THEIR Fatherland and some received the Iron Cross, while many became some of the leading scholars of Goethe, Lessing, Schiller and other Enlightenment figures with a love of the German language second to none, perhaps even the gentile Germans themselves. Mendelssohn, Mahler and others remain staples of our concert repertoire and until Hiler's lunacy, Jews were on the surface as "German" as any German Christian. And that's how it should be, as the Jews truly earned their "place in the sun", merely to paraphrase out of context.

You should reconsider your comparison, as some of us might easily get the wrong ideaLOL

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