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Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last.


nott 3 | 594
2 Nov 2010 #211
The newspaper was convicted in a Polish court of lying. Say no more.

Oh yes, say some more. Got any links?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,720
2 Nov 2010 #212
Certainly. First thing I found was this -

Publications "Polish Gazeta " and "Nasz Dziennik " that the officer BOR Jacek Pig , who was killed in the crash near Smolensk , he had to call his wife after the plane crash , had violated a basic principle of honest journalism , ie the principle of truth - assessed the Media Ethics Council .

Liars.
Torq 26 | 2,371
2 Nov 2010 #213
If they want to be in Germany - take your suitcases and get out.

They DON'T want to live in Germany. They want to be recognized as German minority
in Poland, have their own schools, German language recognized as second official
in some areas, spell their names in German and have bilingual Polish/German signs.
They are allowed all this by Polish government, because it's only fair and civilized
to treat minorities according to the internationally (EU) recognized laws that they have.

It's exactly the same with Poles in Lithuania - they want to enjoy all the rights that EU laws give them.

So, that's the part where you're wrong...

It is still Lithuanian and happiness of those residents to be a part of Poland they may easily express on board of Vilnius-Poland one-way train

...as they don't want to be a part of Poland.

I re-read the Hrubieszow agreement and didn't find any trespasses on my part.

Again, the Hrubieszow agreement concerns itself with UPA-AK issues, not Lithuania and its Polish minority.

Small print - nobody ever reads the small print. *rolls eyes* I thought you would
understand that for you to interfere in Polish-Lithuanian matters as a Ukrainian, might be
seen as acting against the Hrubieszów Agreement (not against the letter of it, but more
against the spirit.)

absent from this site Lithuanians who cannot, therefore, defend their position.

Lithuanians are not absent from this site - they are not even absent from this thread
(which you would have noticed, if you have read it more carefully.) Besides, Lithuanian
position is defended by other posters here, like SeanBM, for example, who used to live
in Lithuania.

For you to take Lithuanian side, when they are very obviously acting against EU minority
laws and regulations, looks to me like acting against the spirit of Hrubieszów Agreement.

Ukrainian insurgents of UPA

I wouldn't use the word "insurgents" in case of people who pushed little baby back into
her mother's womb and then killed them both, or took the skin of a man's hands in a way
that it formed, what they called, "gloves." I would use very, very different words than
"insurgents." However, that's not what I wanted to talk about and it has nothing to do with
blackmail - if you want Hrubieszów Agreement to work and want good, neighbourly relations
and co-operation, then you should restrain yourself from interfering with Polish-Lithuanian
affairs, just as I wouldn't interfere with Ukrainian-Russian affairs, and wouldn't take side
of any country acting against Ukraine - that's how it works in politics, Nathan (even if it's
only Internet Forum Politics :)) Yip, dirty stuff this politics - sometimes you have to bite
your tongue even if it's itching ;)

Leave the defense of Lithuanian lawbreakers to other posters in this thread (like Delphiandomine,
SeanBM, Harry or Litwinus) or risk the deterioration of mutual Polish-Ukrainian relations on PF,
and revoking the Hrubieszów Agreement. Your choice.
nott 3 | 594
2 Nov 2010 #214
Certainly. First thing I found was this

Thanks, only you were saying about a Polish court, and this is about a REM (Rada Etyki Mediów, The Council for Media Ethics) statement.

'The problem is, the the journalists of GP presented the information about the call by the BOR officer as an unconfirmed hypothesis by one of the informers, and contradicted it with the statement of the officer's brother. And Nasz Dziennik [another condemned newspaper] adds, that there was no such publication at all (...)

So it was not a Polish court, there was no conviction, and the accusation itself was rather thin. Got any other links. please?
grubas 12 | 1,391
2 Nov 2010 #215
To much bullcrap here.I say "Na Wilno!"Lets get back what's our.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
2 Nov 2010 #216
I'm not asking for much, just give me a platoon to command ;)









Marek11111 9 | 816
2 Nov 2010 #217
grubas:
I say "Na Wilno!"Lets get back what's our.

Vilno was occupied by Poles between two wars but Vilno was never Polish before ww1 it was Lithuanian.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Nov 2010 #218
look the point is union of lublin had borders separating two countries and the border was west of bialystok there fore Poland was occupying force as it annex part of Lithuania.

Didn't the 3rd May Constitution merge the federation into a single state without any internal borders ?
Marek11111 9 | 816
2 Nov 2010 #219
Maybe you can point me to where it written
kaznoad - | 30
3 Nov 2010 #220
So if Poles are the majority in a part of London (for example) should London change it's street names to Polish?
and should the same apply to the Russians who live in Lithuania and London?

As far as I am aware London was never part of Polish territory. Much or Lithuania and all of Vilnius used to be in Poland. Perhaps you should read some history before making a fool out of yourself again.
Marek11111 9 | 816
3 Nov 2010 #221
As far as everyone is aware Vilno was always Lithuanian and never part of Poland before occupation between two wars. Perhaps you should read some history before making a fool out of yourself again.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
3 Nov 2010 #222
I can't recall Austrians being in an commonwealth earlier on with the Poles and that the Austrians wanted to remake the old alliance once again against common allies, especially I can't remember Warsaw ever being 60%+ (half of it Jewish) Austrian, or pick Prussia or Russia for that matter.

Then why expect love from Lithuanians when your army is on their lands?

Because first it was thought that we all will be a country but then nationalist scum worked against it, I look at them as almost the same as rebels/traitors I would been a lot more harsher then Piłsudski mind you if I were in charge.

What difference does it make that Poles settled in huge numbers in Lithuanian capital? It is still Lithuanian and happiness of those residents to be a part of Poland they may easily express on board of Vilnius-Poland one-way train.

If Lithuanians marched with an army into Warsaw after having fought against an enemy army and join it in an common country, I doubt it would be much hostility. Unless it would be an nationalistic Republic later Fascist state which Lithuania become.

It is still Lithuanian and happiness of those residents to be a part of Poland

II Rzeczpospolita!!! Am I talking to an lunatic? Maybe you got Alzheimer?
If it would be Poland alone it would been Polska, or just Rzeczpospolita Polska!

Just because there was no significant resistance from Lithuanians at the time when Poland broke 2 days ago signed international agreement in Suwalki doesn't mean that Poland behaved in just and noble way, did it?

If I remember correct it was the National Democrats in power at that time and I despise them, I wouldn't behave like THAT.

So who were those pervs who were not able to speak Lithuanian while being Lithuanians?

Polonized Lithuanians or Poles.

So who were those pervs who were not able to speak Lithuanian

and they most certainly weren't nationalist because then they would have same attitude as you, NO they were commonwealthers which believed in a united country fighting an common enemy!

And Poland broke multiple laws. Pilsudski read too much of Bismarck, I think.

Give me some sources then I can ask BB and compare if you want.
(He loves Bismarck so much I guess he knows a bit about him)

respect the country you live in by speaking it, is this so hard?

As a commonwealther I would be deeply insulted, thank God I don't live in Lithuania and that my ancestors moved away from there so that they wouldn't be treated by "Their so called country"

please, but not from newspaper "Kresy - Utracone ziemie" ;)

I would be interested! Maybe some additional info from the old times

That's outrageous - provide me with a link, please,

Exactly my thought

Poland did occupied Lithuanian land

That is somehow correct

and oppress Lithuanian inhabitance that is it and you cannot spin the fact other way.

I know that Poles were harsh about Ukrainians but the Lithuanians?! Come on! ;)
They were Catholics + "Old brothers in arms" + living in in the "Right" country! They didn't move out to get to the Nationalists after all! ;)

not only in 20's and 30's but for centries, in Commonwealth times Lithuanians were opressed, marginalized and humiliated by Polish bustards, allright evil we.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have no words for this!!!!
I can agree to a certain extent that until 1926 from 1918 there was some animosity but come on...

Germans and Russians were the largest groups in the areas which took part in conflict in September 1939: does that make their illegal in invasion of Poland just?!

For the love of God! "Tourists" doesn't count!!

with this argument Germany took care of Sudetenland land and then Czech with Polish help and then Poland so to Lithuanians Pilsudski

He was in power from 1926-1935
WHEN did "Poland" occupy "Lithuanian" territory and when did Poland "invade" small minor parts of Czechoslovakia together with Germans drinking Heineken on the way and hanging Czechs for fun?

Those people have lived there for centuries. Who are you to suggest the ethnic cleansing
of Poles from Wilno?

As a Nationalist (I presume) all nations should live in their nation states and minorities in other countries should be shipped to their "original" places. In those cases I am quite the individualist and say: THEY GOT THE FRICKING RIGHT TO LIVE WHERE THEY WANT AS LONG AS THEY PAY TAXES AND LIVE IT OUT!

Please do not exhaust the trust credit you have
and cease your anti-Polish posting. Thank you.

It's not anti-Polish
For him this is an issue of Poland during after WW1 and her problems about deciding which path to take, Nationalistic one, Fascist one or a patriotic one, isolationist one or Commonwealth theory

Some of those theory's stroke Ukraine so in every aspect he sense you could just as good replace Lithuania with Ukraine. But that's not the matter as Ukrainians and Lithuanians are of 2 totally different species!

The Lithuanians are to pass legislation which will eliminate 2/3 of Polish schools. Poles are not immigrants in today's Lithuania like some posters here compared Pakis in UK. You need to understand that first. These kids will now have to go to Lithuanian schools. Let's say they will be allowed to speak Polish during breaks. Wow.

Pawian, Torq, step back

All hear out the Judge

but Vilno was never Polish before ww1 it was Lithuanian.

?????!?!! Somebody gotta learn some History!!!

Didn't the 3rd May Constitution merge the federation into a single state without any internal borders ?

It did, and as any commonwealther they would follow that strain of thought

As far as everyone is aware Vilno was always Lithuanian and never part of Poland before occupation between two wars.

lol lol lol lol
You know that "Lithuanians" called themselves Poles, just as the Poles you seem to aknowledge as Polish?! Just that they added they were also Lithuanian so that they wouldn't be mixed with the "Koroniarze"

Before the nationalistic Lithuanians wanted to break off from the commonwealthian ideas Polish was their nationality: Lithuanian was their province

and people just like Piłsudski thought it was unimaginable to think otherwise!

To much bullcrap here.I say "Na Wilno!"Lets get back what's our.

I'm not asking for much, just give me a platoon to command ;)

Now when we all know that the Lithuanians didn't like it when the divisions "reclaimed" lost territories in 1920 I wouldn't say that if I were you.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
3 Nov 2010 #223
Leave the defense of Lithuanian lawbreakers to other posters in this thread (like Delphiandomine,
SeanBM, Harry or Litwinus) or risk the deterioration of mutual Polish-Ukrainian relations on PF,
and revoking the Hrubieszów Agreement. Your choice.

ha, ha.....stop being patronizing for a change, it is getting tedious.
1jola 14 | 1,879
3 Nov 2010 #224
I just think that they are testing the arguments that is all, and good on them for doing that, any argument worth its salt is capable of forensic scrutiny. However I really to believe that in reality they actually agree.

See post 165 to see the argument.

It went like this: I said: Polish children are prevented from chating in Polish in Lithuanian schools, for which I did not provide a source since I didn't find it necessary as it is only a small part of a larger government policy to destroy Polish culture. Had someone requested it, I would have looked for it again. Harry took a different route. He briliantly excused this discrimination as the Poles children deserving it not for something they are doing but what had happened decades ago.

Then he started reasoning further. Poles should not complain about this discrimination because it the same as Brits who can't register right-hand drive cars in Poland. Then with a stroke of genius he exclaimed:

When Poland abides by all EU laws, then Poland can complain about other nations not abiding by EU law.

I won't even mention the demands that I show the official school rules...in Lithuanian, I suppose. But why bother? He has convincingly argued that the children deserve it and Poland has no right to complain. Full stop.

If you find this reasoning sound, you are at the right place. lol

as it is only a small part of a larger government policy to destroy Polish culture

I know there will be a alert reader who will ask me to show the government document stating that. :)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,720
3 Nov 2010 #225
As far as I am aware London was never part of Polish territory. Much or Lithuania and all of Vilnius used to be in Poland. Perhaps you should read some history before making a fool out of yourself again.

So? Doesn't matter what it used to be like, all that matters is the here and now. And right now, Vilnius is Lithuanian.

It went like this: I said: Polish children are prevented from chating in Polish in Lithuanian schools, for which I did not provide a source since I didn't find it necessary as it is only a small part of a larger government policy to destroy Polish culture. Had someone requested it, I would have looked for it again.

Consider this a request. Surely it's not so hard to find? I mean, I suppose such an act would be reported all over the Polish press.
1jola 14 | 1,879
3 Nov 2010 #226
You might want to admit you've been spreading lies about Gazeta Polska, when no one even quoted from it, before making any requests.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,720
3 Nov 2010 #227
What's that, you can't find a source for your lies about Polish children being prevented from speaking Polish in Lithuania?
Harry
3 Nov 2010 #228
I know there will be a alert reader who will ask me to show the government document stating that. :)

Why bother? We all know that you can not quote any statement by any member of the Lithuanian government that in any way supports your lie. You'll just react as you did when asked to quote a reliable source for your lie about Polish children being prevented from chatting in Polish in Lithuanian schools.

Poland has no right to complain.

Given that Poles are perfectly happy to lock up EU citizens without a trial after breaking EU law by not bothering to provide vital documentation in a form which can be understood by the accused, perhaps you might like to remove the log from your own eye before complaining about the dirt in somebody else's?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,720
3 Nov 2010 #229
You'll just react as you did when asked to quote a reliable source for your lie about Polish children being prevented from chatting in Polish in Lithuanian schools.

No doubt there'll be some source produced which only not blames Lithuanians, but also blames Tusk, Komorowski, Gazeta Wyborcza, Jews and TVN.

I wonder if we'll see any source provided?
Torq 26 | 2,371
3 Nov 2010 #230
stop being patronizing for a change, it is getting tedious.

Yuo are confusing patronizing with friendliness and good advice, even though your
repeated suggestions of ethnic cleansing (either of Poles from Lithuania, or Germans
from Poland are, frankly, disgusting...

It is still Lithuanian and happiness of those residents to be a part of Poland they may easily express on board of Vilnius-Poland one-way train.

If they want to be in Germany - take your suitcases and get out.

...especially in case of the above mentioned minorities, who have lived there for centuries.

I don't like your idea of "Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Sprache!" It reeks of fascism. If minorities
in Poland, Germany or Lithuania want to use their language as second official, have bilingual
signs and right to spell their names the way they want, then they are fully entitled to it
by international law. If some Lithuanian closet Nazis try to enforce their fascist, troglodyte
views and deprive Polish minority of their rightful privileges, then OK - we will deal with it
accordingly, but to see you supporting those lawbreaking, hatred-filled nationalists
with an obvious small-dick complex is quite surprising.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
3 Nov 2010 #231
what is done is done, look up patronizing in the dictionary;) and I am not confused - that was patronizing to assume to know what I think:)- you simply don't know and you assume, which leads in the end to patronizing posts of yours.
Harry
3 Nov 2010 #232
Ever tried to get information out of a Polish governmental office in a language other than Polish?
Torq 26 | 2,371
3 Nov 2010 #233
to assume to know what I think

I don't know what you think, but I read what you have written and it reeks of fascism.

Ever tried to get information out of a Polish governmental office in a language other than Polish?

In the areas with significant minorities in Poland, members of those minorities are employed
in governmental offices and provide information in both Polish and/or German, for example.
If you go to a governmental office in Opole, or some smaller town in Silesia, where there
are bilingual Polish/German signs, you will not only receive information in German but also
will be able to conduct correspondence with that office, in German.

Unless you are talking about English, then as there is no recognized English speaking minority
in Poland, the knowledge of English isn't compulsory in governmental offices. If it was compulsory
then 95% of all government officials would have to be fired right away (which, to be honest,
could only be beneficial for Poland.)
z_darius 14 | 3,969
3 Nov 2010 #234
Ever tried to get information out of a Polish governmental office in a language other than Polish?

Harry, you responded to a wrong post. It said nothing about governmental offices.

Here is a list of localities in Poland with geographical names in Polish and in the languages of the local minorities.

This is a list of 30 villages in Poland where Polish authorities have no problems with dual names:

Boksze-Osada/Bokšiai
Buda Zawidugierska/Vidugirių Būda
Buraki/Burokai
Dowiaciszki/Dievetiškė
Dziedziule/Didžiuliai
Giłujsze/Giluišiai
Kalinowo/Kalinavas
Kompocie/Kampuoèiai
Krejwiany/Kreivėnai
Nowiniki/Navinykai
Ogórki/Agurkiai
Oszkinie/Ožkiniai
Pełele/Peleliai
Poluńce/Paliūnai
Przystawańce/Pristavonys
Puńsk/Punskas
Rejsztokiemie/Raistiniai
Sankury/Sankūrai
Sejwy/Seivai
Skarkiszki/Skarkiškiai
Szlinokiemie/Šlynakiemis
Tauroszyszki/Taurusiškės
Trakiszki/Trakiškės
Trompole/Trumpalis
Widugiery/Vidugiriai
Wiłkopedzie/Vilkapėdžiai
Wojciuliszki/Vaièiuliškės
Wojtokiemie/Vaitakiemis
Wołyńce/Valinèiai
Żwikiele/Žvikeliai

Here are some graphical samples from other regions:
Ironside 48 | 9,825
3 Nov 2010 #235
Yuo are confusing patronizing with friendliness and good advice, even though your
repeated suggestions of ethnic cleansing (either of Poles from Lithuania, or Germans
from Poland are, frankly, disgusting...

see they don't see problem in ethnic cleansing. let alone understand your moral scruples , they think it would be wrong to regain our land because its not them doing it, not other reason :)

Deph and Harry are you support Lithuanian government policy of discrimination ?

Marek buy yourself a watch, you need some brain nearby !
Marek11111 9 | 816
3 Nov 2010 #236
Mr Grunwald :
WHEN did "Poland" occupy "Lithuanian" territory and when did Poland "invade" small minor parts of Czechoslovakia together with Germans

At 9 October 1920 general Lucjan Zeligowski occupied the south-east of Lithuania about a third of the country
On 1 October 1938 the Zaolzie area was annexed by Poland

And ironside you cannot win the argument so you need to insult, that is so christian of you.
Ironside 48 | 9,825
3 Nov 2010 #237
And ironside you cannot win the argument so you need to insult, that is so christian of you.

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republic_of_Central_Lithuania_general_election,_1922&oldid=374580020
Harry
3 Nov 2010 #238
In the areas with significant minorities in Poland, members of those minorities are employed
in governmental offices and provide information in both Polish and/or German, for example.

Really? There are tens of thousands of Vietnamese in Warsaw but I have never seen any information being offered to them in their language.

Here are some graphical samples from other regions:

Well done. Now when will speakers English in Poland get the same rights as Poles have the UK?
z_darius 14 | 3,969
3 Nov 2010 #239
Well done. Now when will speakers English in Poland get the same rights as Poles have the UK?

Are you suggesting that the speakers of English in Poland are not allowed to use detour routes?
Harry
3 Nov 2010 #240
They have the right to use detours but they don't know that they should use it because nobody told them that they don't have the right to use the usual route.


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