Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

@dolnoslask
I wouldn't be so sure.
Those who want to twist the history will be happy when eyewitnesses are gone.

noone here ever did it

Yes, some people here have done that (on several occasions) and sadly even described it as 'a hoax'.

Those few are already mostly gone but you have my generation who carry plenty of babcia stories which are not always true and not first hand, and mostly twist the real history.

Supposed 'eyewitnesses' have given every testimony that spanned the range from Nazis treated us great - we had swimming pools, operas, etc. to we were treated as less than human - starvation, despair, constant beatings till you died.

There is no way to know all the facts and who's telling the truth and who isn't as the winning's side record is always the one most believed. Think of how many Americans have been brainwashed into thinking Iraqis, Palestinians, etc. fighting an invading force were labeled terrorists and the media spun it so no one mourned their deaths. Yet if Iraqis, Afghanis, etc invaded the US and americans resorted to assassinations, propaganda videos with tortute and beheadings to demoralize the enemy, IEDs etc. we'd call them freedom fighters, partisans, heroes of the highest order, martyrs - not terrorists. Same thing with the Nazis - most Germans believed that the Poles and Jews fighting in the uprisings were terrorists - and the German media labeled them as such. Yet today, since the Allies won they are revered as heros. I doubt it would be the same if the Axis powers won. They'd be discarded into the dustbin of history and thought of just another pesky terrorist group sabotaging the Nazi's great plans...

The extensive photographic record left by the Third Reich as well as the films made after the liberation of the camps help very much with establishing the facts.

That and the fact that the overwhelming majority of independent testimony of holocaust survivors gathered both immediately at the end of the Shoah by people who had not had a chance to discuss their experiences with others as well as in the decades since are consistent in their descriptions of the horrors.


You're 'thinking' of Rafael Schächter and Victor Ullmann. Both died in the Shoah.

No I'm thinking of a Jewish lady (I believe Hungarian or Romanian) that gave an interview about her time in the camps


Almost all of which were made by the Soviets - hardly a reliable unbiased source.


I'm sure there are/were people telling the truth, but again it's mixed in with frauds like Elie Wiesel who doesn't even have a tattoo from his supposed time in the camps.

Theresienstadt?


I've never seen those films, only the one made by the British at Bergen-Belsen. A horrible thing to watch, a film about something so evil it should never have existed yet something everyone should see to prevent it ever happening again.

A lot of the visual material was documented (though not shown for a good reason) by Claude Lanzmann in Shoah. His interview with Jan Karski is especially worth watching. I was surprised recently to find that he (Lanzmann) is still alive, aged 92.

F them! Who cares? They seemingly have no problem with throwing insult and slander on the Polish nation. As if suffering and dead of so many millions people meant nothing. I suppose it means nothing to them. So F them and their Holocaust. ---See how them like those peaches..


You sad person you , people like you who exist only to connive and bait people on a social media obscure forums should be burned on a stake.


Thanks but No. Not again.

None of the Jews posting here have any connections to the Holocaust.
In fact none of them are even practicing Jews yet we have to listen to them whine daily here.
War is hell on EVERYBODY !
My father left his new 18 year old bride to help the Jews out.
He risk his life and had to kill or be killed, got shot up, came home shaking so bad that he could not even light a cigarette because a bomb went off close enough to fill his body with shrapnel that he picked small pieces out of his body until the day he died and he was never the same man again.

What pity did any Jew ever show him ?
Don't you think he deserved compensation for sacrificing in reality......his and his families lives ?
He never once whined about it, never once.
Now you Lyzko, jon, delph are all self proclaimed non practicing Jews.
Did any of you or any of your fathers serve in the military and see combat ?
In fact did any of your relatives die in the war ?
So lose some weight and take your daily Jewish pit party here some place else because we just don't care to hear about how the Jews deserve to be compensated just because some long lost relative died in a camp 75 years ago, nobody compensated my father or me.

How about the Polish people who lost everything they had including family.
Should they deserve some compensation ?
Why do the Jews get to corner the market on the reparations ?????
Maybe time to start spreading that pity around to the people who actually deserve it and you are not one of them just because you are a generic Jew.

And that is what PiS is trying to get across - albeit a bit poorly as their message and long explanations to journos are nitpicked, taken out of context, etc. Poles understand it and get it though and that's ultimately what matters to them. What angers them is how they have one foot in the Zionist camp one in the Polish. They'll fight for Poles' dignity and the historical record, yet apologize for what some USSR controlled puppets did in 67-68 to the Jews. Attendees of the ceremony chanted hanba! hanba! meaning shame! shame!

The Holocaust industry isn't much different than People's Temple or Marshall Applewhite's speeches. Only difference is that they brainwashed millions with a different ideology - collective guilt - especially the German population. It hasn't been as successful in Poles where people are more concerned with their own who suffered in just as great numbers, and for far longer under not just the Nazis but for decades afterwards under the USSR, and as far as millennials especially in the US - perhaps because due to their terrible attention spans, lack of caring about anything that doesn't directly benefit them immediately, or whatever it is - they lost interest. And no amount of Holocaust books in public schools is going to change that. Knowledge of the Holocaust and concentration camps is at an all time low. The world has moved on - and Israel and Zionists hate it that's why they're still grasping at straws, trying to extort whatever they still can - sadly, only the evangelicals seem to be the only significant group to really be backing up Israel today. Both the right and the left have gotten sick of the nonstop US support, the constant UN violations, the collective guilt that Zionists tried to impose which is no longer working, the constant proxy wars, all the b.s.

I have to chuckle because amongst the alt-right whenever some Zionist is exposed sh1tposters will write things like 'oy vey! the goys know shut it down!'

well in this case it's.... 'the goys..... don't know?!?!?! oy vey!!!!'

Your time is over - the world is more interested in other atrocities that have occurred more recently than 80 years ago - and many which are going on right now - and most ironically, Israel and the Jews are causing quite a few of them especially in the Middle East by supporting terrorist groups like Al Nusra, Al Qaeda, etc.

nytimes.com/2018/04/12/us/holocaust-education.html

washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/04/12/two-thirds-of-millennials-dont-know-what-auschwitz-is-according-to-study-of-fading-holocaust-knowledge/?utm_term=.e18e1321635e

cbsnews.com/news/holocaust-study-millennials

RIP Holocaust Industry...

Not sure. Maybe it's just a coincidence since more flags are now made of nylon which doesn't burn as well. But I heard recently that apparently Israel banned music by the German composer Wagner, claiming he was a huge anti-Semite and Nazi. In fact, his life and works predate the Nazi reign and Wagner himself is of Jewish stock, but facts never mattered to the Zionist entity...

theculturetrip.com/middle-east/israel/articles/why-wagners-music-was-banned-in-israel

nytimes.com/1982/11/10/world/israeli-ban-on-strauss-lifted-but-wagner-is-still-prohibited.html

Some Palestinian kids apparently knocked out two IDF drones using slingshots and rocks during the recent protests - that's pretty impressive in all honesty

Never burnt one of their flags but synthetic history, plastic victim industry....anyone surprised the flag is also synthetic after all its a made up country too with a made up god and fake dna.

@G,

To submit to the attitude of "that's the way it is", almost a resigned Calvinist "Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone.." mentality is precisely what mainstream Western tradition ISN'T all about!! Passivity and fatalism are the enemy in this case. Holocausts ARE preventable, so long as one sees them coming and can change hearts as well as minds. Fairness is what the Judeo-Catholic tradition strives to achieve.

@dolnoslask,

I never once uttered the statement that either the Polish gov't. or the vast majority of Polish people were directly "complicit" in the Holocaust. Go back and re-read my various posts, which are written in plain English:-)

What I did say, is that, while Poland did in fact take more than a hit during WWII, moroever, had a strong, nationwide resistance movement against the Nazis, Jedwabne and particularly Kielce (perpetrated AFTER the War was over), shall remain Poland's Nan King Massacre, their My Lai, their shame. The Kielce Pogrom was not committed during war time and therefore cannot be justified as such.

And the Gulags headed up by A jew and 99% run by Jews and continued after the war was over will always remain Jewish nan king massacre.

There were terrible things done by random lunatic Poles and jews during that time, who chose to settle scores or make their fortune out of the suffering of others.

Sorry I see you Lyzko pointing your finger at the Polish Nation and its people as being totally complicit, as the Nazis, don't forget Hitler and marx were both germans, the source of all this horror lies with them.

You have done nothing here apart from alienating Polish posters here trying to bait them into making anti semetic statements so that you may use them to justify your hateful and destructive propagation of Polish National complicity

Your post below best describes your best hopes for the poles here to turn on you and write anti Jewish posts on this forum, I and many here can see past your little ruse .

To what end are you cause this damage to to Polish Jewish relations


Yes its you Lyzko that people have problems with here, you are just a little $hite stirrer.

More like Poland's 'St. Valentine's Day Massacre' or 'Palm Sunday Massacre' considering tens of thousands died in Nan King... a few hundred died in jedwabne and a few dozen in Kielce... numbers don't even compare...


Sorry but today's Poles aren't going to feel collective guilt nor any shame for what some people did 70 years ago. This isn't Germany where people flagellate themselves for generations because of a few ancestor's actions. And quite frankly, most Poles rationalize those killings due to the tens of thousands killed by Jewish Bolsheviks and Polish Jews who collaborated with invading Soviets. What goes around, comes around. Once world Jewry apologizes for killing tens of thousands of Poles and colluding with invading armies, than maybe we'll apologize as a nation for the pogroms. They better hurry up because before long hardly any of the younger generations will care, much less know, about the Holocaust, Auschwitz, etc.

Now Poles are even going after foreign tour guides at Auschwitz toeing the Zionist line:

"Foreign, and not Polish narratives reign at Auschwitz. Time for it to stop," wrote Barbara Nowak, who until last year served as a local councilor for Law and Justice.

telesurtv.net/english/news/Polands-Auschwitz-Museum-Staff-Suffer-Anti-Semitic-Attacks-After-Holocaust-Speech-Law-20180507-0010.html
theguardian.com/world/2018/may/07/polands-holocaust-law-triggers-tide-abuse-auschwitz-museum

We're not going to allow the Zionists to diminish the memory of the millions of others who died during WW2. The Jewish monopoly on being the sole WW2 victims and profiting off of it is quickly coming to an end. And all they can do, like usual, is whine, complain, ask their sugar daddy U.S. for help (who even refused it and told the Israelis - too bad, Poland's a good ally so get on with them!) and print more crap in Zionist outlets. Too bad less and less people are buying it.

As a human being I feel sad for what happened in Jedwabne and Kielce. I CAN'T rationalise that. I can't rationalise violent murders whether they were inspired by Nazis/ communists or not.

What happened there was a total disgrace.
But you can't blame whole nations for what some of their people did. Similarly, I can't blame all Jews for what Jewish bolsheviks or communists did. Though I feel sad for their victims.

Also if we choose to talk about the bad guys, talk about all nations. And talk about all victims.
Recently, the photo of Czesława Kwoka has been colorised. A Facebook page posted it. And lots of the people who commented didn't even know she was gentile. They automatically assumed she was Jewish. Lots of people are not aware of non-Jewish victims. The same applies to gulags - lots don't even know about them.

Interesting statistic in this article

haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-how-american-jews-lost-their-religion-and-found-their-identity-1.6056319

Study of American Jews on what it means to be Jewish [From Pew research done a few years ago].

62% say being Jewish is mainly a matter of ancestry and culture
73% say being Jewish is mainly remembering the Holocaust

only 15% said being Jewish was mainly a matter of religion

So for most American Jews, who have lost their faith, what else do they have to identify themselves as Jewish, other than constantly talking about the Holocaust?

Interestingly in the famous 'Defamation' documentary, one rabbi [in Russia I think] who was interviewed, said religious Orthodox Jews don't talk that much about the Holocaust. It isn't part of their identity of being Jewish. He said it is mainly those Jews who have no faith who keep on bringing it up. Many religious Jews don't need to keep mentioning the Holocaust to remind themselves who they are. Of course, I'm sure they remember it and see it as a terrible tragedy, but for them the Biblical sense of being Jewish is much more important and defines their identity, rather than an attempted genocide.

The problem with this way of thinking of course, is that many of them think they are chosen and non-Jews are worse than them, but that is another issue.

Thats why its called the hidden holocaust, millions died there

Come on, when the last people remembering WW2 are no longer around, that's when these psychos are really going to strike. That's why the whole situation related to the new "Holocaust law" is a great thing. It made them show their true colours. Fortunately. So more and more people see that Jewish Polonophobia is a real issue, not an invention of "anti-semites" like many used to think.

Wow, so now twenty bedroom dwellers believe it rather than ten, what an achievement!

"@dolno, hate to disappoint you, but Jedwabne and Kielce themselves shame the Polish nation. Historians such as Jan Gross and others have merely brought it to the much needed attention of the an all too gullible public!

Haha. Good one.

I know Gross has been attacked, WielkiPolak. Truth tellers usually are when the truth becomes too uncomfortable:-)

You mean like Ewa Kurek?

You throw that example up to ME??!

Well she is a historian, yet whenever she uncovers an uncomfortable truth for Jewish people, she is immediately lambasted as an antisemite. What are you thoughts on her?

By the way, to comment on your earlier point about Kielce and Jedwabne shaming the Polish nation - I disagree. They shame those who were the culprits. No nation should be held responsible for the acts of some bad citizens.

I really ought to have made abundantly clear that I am NOT an advocate of so-termed "collective guilt/shame", or I never would have invested so much of my time and money in living in Germany as well as visiting, not to mention enjoying the brief period I spent in, Poland! That's for starters.

Secondly, even though a third-generation American, ergo,one whose ancestors weren't involved in either slavery or the slaughter of Native Americans, I nonetheless DO feel a twinge of guilt in as far as those crimes were committed on the soil on which I live.

Concerning Pani Kurek, I'd have to read her work both in the original along with in entirety to be able to judge for myself.

That's a little different. The modern day 'Europeanised' USA was basically founded upon the slaughter of Native Americans, so that's where your or others' guilt might come from, even though personally I don't see why you should feel guilty for it, but it's up to you.

Poland wasn't founded on the slaughter of Jewish people, nor did the Polish state at the any point decide to wipe out Jews [like the German state did]. The criminal acts that were committed against Jews were personal decisions made by certain Polish citizens, who should be condemned for what they did. Feeling guilty for what they did however doesn't come in to play, much like you shouldn't feel guilty if some white supremacists in America decide to kill some black people. You would most probably be shocked by such an incident and I assume you would condemn it, but why should you feel guilt for something you didn't do?

In the end, those acts during the war years in Poland were perpetrated by Germans. The historian Dieter Zimmer, a German and a non-Jew, made this most apparent in his Rowohlt paperback many years ago about the Holocaust.