Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

No, it covers everything. The Costa Rican case only happened after they sacked him as the ambassador, not before. What normally happens is if someone commits a crime, they get invited to leave, or the host country asks the sending country to revoke their diplomatic privileges.

@Hr. Grunevald, what then is your perspective? Do you agree in whole or in part with the new IPS law in Poland?

I wonder if those pictured are some of the 1000's of Israeli High School students flown to Poland every year for years on end to be exposed to systematic indoctrination. Continual replacements are required in order to refresh the fire of the holocaust industry. Those kids suffer abuse by their state propagandist handlers. Their young minds are poisoned to think a certain way to perpetuate their usefullness as front line cannon fodder in "the cause". "Anti-semitism" is an essential requirement of success for organized jewry. Where it doesn't exist, it will be manufactured. What a waste of young life.

• 
  Meddlers_destroyers.jpg
  

So sad that such a place of remembrance is being used as a political billboard.

Only thing I know for a fact is that the four survivors of this terrible place that i met with and had knowledge that I was a Polish descendant, did not accuse or implicate me or my family of this atrocity, the message was very much focused on learning from mistakes and building future where man does not commit such atrocities.

the politics around this just saddens me.

Anything to commercialize human suffering.

An enlightening and freely available documentary (on Youtube) revealing the propagandizing of young israeli minds is called "Defamation", by an israeli filmaker who has never experienced "anti-semitism". The film also highlights the machinations of organized jewry which uses a form of protection racketeering on the masses of diaspora jews.

youtu.be/XNWF9CeoZdE

The perpetually meddlesome and pathological "News"week getting in on the act:

Stop bouncing your threads.

• 
  Legacy_of_Ashes.jpg
  

Can one really blame them, Slavictor?

Someone is to be blame, that's certain.

youtu.be/gZ0hdHCkA5k

After watching that brief ~2 Min talk given by that Rabbi, it's almost as if Adolf read Ronen Bergmans' book:

• 
  2 Thumbs Up! - Bibi / Adolf
  

I believe in karma and I believe israel and their zionist leaders will eventually pay for all the persecution, exortion, theft, killings, etc that they've done. Theyre already paying for it by having a shia corridor right at their doorstep which is making them extremely uncomfortsble. If it wasnt for us support israel wouldve been done for a long time ago.

Atleast trump told the zionists to cool it on bashing poland for its holocaust law citing poland is an important partner and even though trump admin doesnt agree with the new law they don't want the relationship to be ruined. That mustve been like acid being poured into the zionists ears having a us president tell them theres other things more important than their constant whining.

Ari Sharif comedy skit in jewish deli:
youtu.be/Sm5dMBs7PDQ

The IPS-law is nonetheless universally seen by the rest of the world as punitive, to say the least!

Israel has the same exact law with even stricter penalties. Yet no one is crying about it...

It doesn't matter what others think. They can make their own laws in their own countries. The laws of poland are for poles to decide. Numerous countries make homosexuality illegal because that's the type of laws they want and its their right to have such laws within their own sovereign nation.

Putin's Russia for example...although of course he denies it vehemently! Almost reminds me of that great film >The Lives of Others<, where the young playwrite Georg Dreymann accidentally angers Commisar Hempff by talking about how repugnant he finds blacklists in his country which singled out and nearly ruined the career of his good friend and fellow playwrite Jerska. Hempff threateningly denies the existence of such, wagging his intimidating index finger at Dreymann, "You really should watch your phraseology from now on, sir!"

Well if thats the laws he wants so be it. Most russians appear to support it. Putin has approval ratings with russians that western politicians could only dream of. And it isn't homosexuality thats illegal, it's broadcasting it and forcing children to be exposed to it which i totally agree with. There's no reason for 98 99% of society to have to constantly be exposed to some practices that at most 2% participate in and be told that we must not only accept and tolerate it, but embrace their acts even if they're counter to our own beliefs. And if you dont you're labeled a homophobe merely because you dont want your children being read books like daddy's new roommate in kindergarten.

Same with this polish law. This wasn't just to make the world understand poles did not build the camps and the legit polish government never authorized or sponsored pogroms during ww2. In fact rhey did their best to stop persecutions and extortion by poles of jews. A lot of it also has to do with jews who arent even descendants nor polish citizens filing claims to properties. This is polands way of saying hey we suffered too, we weren't the ones who brought about the holocaust, and we demand ling overdue recognition and respect. Problem is pis shouldve left it at that instead of explaining every detail to every zionist outlet that questions them and to top it off apologizing for what some ussr puppets did in 67 68. Shame!

Seems to me an extreme overreaction, don't you think, rather like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Overreaction perhaps, but you can only corner and harass an animal so long before it bears its claws and fangs in defense. This is poland saying enough is enough - we were victims, yes tgere were bad poles no one is denying that, but no the polish government and polish people neither organized the holocaust nor built the camps. We were the first to notify the world of them and the world including jews in the US didnt care. Politics and opinion were more important than their brothers and sisters lives.

This was also to prevent more false claims for properties as prior to this anyone could say my jewish uncle was killed by now deceased franek and zosia and took their house over and I want it back and idc if its been bought and sold a dozen times since ww2

In the latter instance, property title would have to be considered, since the "leaving" of the former tenants/owners might not have been legal.

Everything depends from Polish government . If they don't change law according to the wishes of scammers no court will give any undeserved money to the Jewish organizations. Neither we are obligated to invade Iran... All this game of words is pointless, because scenario is written by the Jews. Diplomatic relations should be reduced to necessary minimum, don't invite them here, don't fly to Israel, don't comment provocative statements, stop giving them control over our museums, stop financing Jewish cultural events and handing taxpayers money to Jewish filmmakers. This is all up to Polish government.

Depends under which government, the circumstances, etc. If we're going by what's legal and illegal, it would be impossible to track all the property crimes that occurred during the PRL years - let alone during WW2 when the country was invaded by 2 superpowers. Far more Poles had their properties confiscated by commie authorities than Jews did by Poles that's for sure.

@lesser
Exactly and that's what frustrates me because PiS does waaaay too much explaining. They don't need to explain their actions with this law to the rest of the world. Did Putin talk to a million journalists after the gay propaganda or the domestic abuse law? Did Erdogan have to explain himself to the whole world nonstop when rounding up coup plotters? Did Trump have to get every leftist media outlet to approve of his cancelling of TPP? No - they're in charge, they were elected based on campaign promises and the people's will. I'm sick and tired of hearing Poland constantly explaining their actions and trying to have other people understand why they do this or that. They don't need to explain sh1t - this is a sovereign country with its own laws, customs, and culture. And to top it off they apologize for what some USSR puppets did 50 years ago towards the jews at a time when most of the current politicians were still in grade school SMDH...

The only good thing about this government is that they refuse to let in third world immigration.

Well not exactly - they're okay with migrants from outside of Europe but they're selective. If you're a Syrian/Iraqi Christian with a family and the immigration officials believe that you will assimilate and be a net benefit to polish society than there's a good chance you'll get in. If you're a dude from Ghana with no skills, no education, etc you won't be let in. There's a ton of people coming in now from Ukraine and India and Poland welcomes them because there's a huge need for workers. The situation was always the opposite in Poland where jobs were scarce and unemployment was high. Now it's the opposite - unemployment rates are at record lows, salaries keep going up, and still they can't find enough workers to fill positions. But that doesn't mean they're going to take a bunch of teenagers that Italy or France or Germany tossed away because they have enough problems feeding hundreds of thousands of merkel's burdens as it is. They want people that are going to assimilate and contribute to the society - not demand hand outs like the migrants in Sweden, Germany, etc. They want everything for free - food, money, housing but are unwilling to work for any of it. Those are not the kind of people Poland wants - Poland wants workers, not free loaders.

I'm not sure if this is the article, as it was published a few weeks after the issue of the Newsweek magazine cover you posted, but it could well be, as it's about whether Poland did or did not take part in the Holocaust, so they might have put it online later.

newsweek.com/2018/05/04/polands-legacy-ashes-902185.html

Funny how they found just the right people to quote, to push their agenda that Poland is partially guilty of the Holocaust. They talk to Konstanty Gebert [Gazeta Wyborcza] and quote the likes of Gross and Grabowski.

In one part of the piece, Jewish journalist and activist Gebert goes as far as to say 'If the government retreats [on the IPN law], it stands to lose the fascist vote - that is some 10 percent of the electorate.'

I still don't know if PiS actually have anything to lose from it. I know you've said otherwise, but my general impression is that any support that they would lose over it has already left them over Macierewicz / Szyszko getting the sack.

The problem for PiS now is how to implement this law - if they do what the hard right are demanding (going after Gross and others), they'll end up in a fight with the US and Israel that they can't win, and they will probably invite an absolute flood of "Polish death camps" comments online. If they water down the law, or even just use the TK to throw it out, then the hard right will be screaming constantly about the alleged Jewish influence in Poland, which might cost them a few percent - but that few percent could be the difference between winning and losing the next election.

Either way, my own perception is that they'll only lose 2-3% at the vote at the very most. If there's a 10% vote for fascist parties, then only a fraction of that will vote for PiS over parties like Ruch Narodowy.

I agree, many of the PiS base are already disgruntled over Macierewicz and Szydlo, and are becoming more and more upset with Duda over his original judicial reform veto and what they see as his grovelling stance to Israel, such as his most recent lack of reaction to president Rivlin's comments about Poland and Polish people also being responsible for the Holocaust or how Poland was fertile land for the Nazis to go ahead with the Holocaust. Heck, he's even being nicknamed Andrzej Juda.


The point is, 10% of the electorate are not fascists. It was insulting for Gebert to say such a thing. There are actually very few fascists around in Poland. It's as marginal as a handful of people celebrating Hitler's birthday in the woods.

Nationalists however, there are a few more of, although I still wouldn't say anywhere near as much as 10%, and different nationalists define themselves differently [many for example, have no issue with people of different ethnicities in Poland as long as they accept a Polish cultural and traditional way of life]. It is true though, that some of the actions [or lack of them] by PiS and Duda may turn them away. Some of them probably didn't vote for PiS and Duda in the 1st place though, so PiS won't lose out if they don't vote again, but some did vote for them as their only hope of at least getting rid of PO, but now they're beginning to feel tricked and might not vote for them again. Even if it's a few percent, this could, as you say, make a difference.

PiS have definitely put themselves in a difficult situation with this IPN law. Right now they seem to be pissing off both the USA and the Jews, as well as the hard right in Poland and heck, not even just the hard right, but even soft right traditional PiS supporters, who are also beginning to see them as weak.

It's the worst possible scenario, although strangely, if they can be trusted, most polls still have them as leading comfortably.

This is pathology of democracy, before every single decisions being made they are making estimations how many percent to gain or to lose. Truth and common sense doesn't matter. This is not even time of election campaign.

There is no fascist parties in Poland, you confusing Poland with Israel.

It seems this fellow suggests that Jewish behaviour is responsible. What an incredibly novel concept. forward.com/fast-forward/400110/mahmoud-abbas-jews-caused-holocaust-with-their-social-behavior/

• 
  Jew_Social_Behaviour.jpg
  

The problem for those supporters is - where do they go? Establishing a new party outside PiS will just ensure that the opposition wins, so even if they're becoming disgruntled, there's no real alternative for them. Korwinists won't accept their pro-welfare stance, and Kukiz is a mess of ideologies and pathologies.


It really is a strange miscalculation by PiS. They're normally quite good at judging the political impact of laws, but this damaged them without any sort of benefit. It's pushing away the crucial centre ground, while they had nearly nothing to gain from the right side of politics anyway.

I think for many on the soft right in Poland, they don't really have much of a choice with PiS. If they give their vote to an alternative party, PiS will lose, or even worse, they'll have to deal with inexperienced and unpredictable Kukiz / Korwin, who will hurt the government in the same way that Lepper did in 2005-2007.

Either way, agreed on the nationalists number. Their number is wildly over estimated by nationalists and others alike for political purposes, and the real number is probably, at most, 100,000. The idea of 10% of voters being fascists is laughable, though it's wise not to deny that there are elements of fascism that appeal to voters. Poland is hardly unique in this though.

True and that's why they will probably end up voting for PiS, despite their grievances.

From what I'm seeing, more of them seem angry at Duda than PiS. I have seen and heard many comments from people about how Duda is a traitor and they won't vote for him again.

But again, when it comes to the presidential elections, if the only viable opponent to Duda is Tusk or somebody from PO/Nowoczesna then they might be forced to vote for Duda just to keep them out.

I don't know how their minds work and whether they will use a Duda vote as a vote against the main opponent, or whether they are so fed up with Duda that they just won't vote for anybody, or they'll vote for a fringe right wing candidate with no realistic chance of winning, despite knowing that this could give Tusk and co a better chance of winning.

To quote Sir Winston Churchill, who saw his country through even far rougher waters than those of today, "Democracy is the least effective, most ineffectual form of government known! Yet do we know of any one better?"

Without idealism there can be no humanity, and without the latter, there remains only barbarism. Something to consider well, even when the world seems to spin helplessly out of control. Cooler heads prevailing, needn't always mean taking the path of least resistance. Expedient doesn't necessarily mean right!

RN ONR and the narodowcy in general field dont candidates. They generally vote for kukiz, some of the fringe partied like korwins and to a lesser extent pis candidates.

@Slavictor
Kicked out of over 100 different countries, cities, principalities over the past 2000 years but nope they were all antisemitic... poles were the only ones that took them in after they literally had no where else to go and this is the thanks poland gets centuries later. If only kazimierz wielki had a crystal ball back then to see the future