Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

Agreed. The law is badly put together and they will find it very difficult to prosecute anyone with it. It's too vague in terms of who can actually be prosecuted. If Israel and the USA did not get outraged so publicly, perhaps the president wouldn't have signed it so fast. Those 2 nations effectively forced his hand, otherwise PiS and the president would be viewed by their supporters as lapdogs of Israel and the USA.

Well it's crap so that's good. I'm against the law (and holocaust denial laws) on general free speech grounds but as long as holocaust denial laws are on the books I could tolerate this law if it were dialed back and limited to people on the territory of Poland or Polish citizens (wherever). It could even include that public use or propogation of the phrase would be grounds for denying visas... but at present it's just a trashy mess.

The President, supposedly a lawyer, should be someone able to judge The situation its own merits and consult where required - he failed to do that and he has 100 percent responsibility for this daft law.

Surely a Polish law can only penalise people in Poland? Just like Israel's holocaust denial law can't penalise somebody for denying the holocaust outside of Israel. I mean, a nation's law can only stay within the boarders of their own nation right? Otherwise what would be the point in having governments with different laws in different countries.

Therefore, a Polish citizen outside of Poland wouldn't be breaking the law if he or she mentioned Polish death camps abroad, just like a Polish citizen wouldn't be breaking the law if they went to another country to have an abortion, for instance because, they felt they were't ready for a baby [a reason that wouldn't be deemed good enough for an abortion in Poland].


What I find baffling, is that he had an issue with the judiciary reform law and refused to sign parts of it, but he signed this law, even though it was much more badly put together than the other one.

Well Poland has a tradition of passing badly written ambiguous laws 'written on the knee' (napisane na kolanie) and it's my understanding that it's mean to apply to everyone everywhere (which would make it a bubel prawny...)


A marionette can break free of his strings for only so long.

The Israeli dude was looming about "Polish cooperation in the Holocaust", which is nothing surprising as these dudes have been doing it since years but what's so strange that the local mayor didn't want to take part in it ? Yeah, that would boost his support among the voters for sure... Generally, when you are invited somewhere as a gust and start throwing crap at the host, hard to expect him to just stay there and clap his hands. I guess one has to be Jewish to expect that kind of behaviour.

Btw the whole event took place in early December, a fact that it is being reported as the latest news and get connected to the new law, just shows the scale of manipulation.


As usual, useful idiots to the rescue. No, a similar situation would occur If a head of Polish delegation in Israel gave a speech about the crimes of Jews serving in NKVD. Most likely they would have been booted out of the country with a ban on re-entry and for the whole next week, the JPost, NYT and all would be writing all over the place about "shocking example of Polish anti-semitism". But apparently, when Jews throw manure at Goys, the Goys are expected to just stay there and node politely.

ditto

Although you mention that the whole event took place in December. The article says Monday. I am assuming this meant today? Where did you get December from?

Nope, extradition will apply. So the whole of the EU and probably many other countries

There is no way a a mayor could demand the contents of a speech and then ban it.

There is no mechanism to force anyone to hand over words before they are spoken and ban those
words if they are spoken

On Jewish forums, Serbs would explain that peace between Jews and Slavs, means also peace between Poles and Jews. Peace is and will be peace. We Slavs (ie Sarmatians/ie Thracians) won`t eat western European sh** anymore and I don`t believe that Jews themselves wants to continue to do it.

Let us take care of our two civilizations, in mutual respect. Our civilizations are much older then any of newly born western European nations.

Yes, I believe that's the one. I didn't know it was on IMDB, and 80% too with 4000+

In the film I cited in this thread, there is mention of quite a number of Jewish soldiers (some of which were officers) serving with the German army. When you mention Jews serving on the NKVD, I assume you mean such butchers as en.metapedia.org/wiki/Genrikh_Grigoryevich_Yagoda

Poland wouldn't have had a Communist past if it weren't for Bolshevism and subhumans like Yagoda. We know (((who))) incepted and propagated both.

Nobody would waste 4 minutes watching your conspiracy video, let alone 4 hours.

there is very fitting say in Poland about this situation with jews.
you stop lying about us jews ,then we will stop telling truth about you.

Where did you get that information? There's a very detailed article about it here.

timesofisrael.com/poland-censors-israeli-mayor-at-official-ceremony-over-mention-of-polish-crimes/

The Israeli Mayor, Dukorsky, says that besides talking about Polish citizens' complicity in actions by the Nazis, he also mentioned the many Poles who saved Jews during World War II.

He says the Polish authorities asked him to omit the number of Jews murdered by Poles during the war, which the speech stated as about 200,000 Jews, and he said he was willing to delete the number.

"But I was requested to make further changes to which I didn't agree," he continued, saying he was asked to substitute the word "Poles" with "Ukrainians" when speaking about Poles' involvement in the Holocaust, and "German Nazis" instead of "Nazis."

Has there been any comment from the Polish government or local authorities about it? It would be very odd and foolish for the Israelis to completely fabricate such a story. I really don't think they're that daft.


It's not a question of formal or legal mechanisms. It's a question of informal social interaction. One can ask, not 'demand' and the person being asked, can be co-operative for the sake of courtesy and observe the formalities of allowing their speech to be glanced over. That would appear to be what happened. The speech can't be 'banned' but the author of the speech can be requested to make changes and if they refuse, the host who invited them to speak is perfectly within their rights to cancel the invitation and equally the speaker is entitled to refuse to deliver the speech.

Or the speaker could have simply delivered the speech he wanted. Which is why I think we need some sort of confirmation about something that didn'thappen.

Well he did, but not at the event. That was cancelled.

And something DID happen. A speaker was asked to censor his speech to comply with the new law.

Are you saying the Israelis have made this up? If so, why hasn't Poland expressed outrage at this fabrication? PIS generally never loses an opportunity to take offence at perceived snubs, lies, bullying etc.

I don't think so. If a Pole living in Poland says Poland was complicit in the holocaust, while he/she in Poland, and then makes off to some other country, then perhaps. However if a Pole living in Britain says it, I doubt the British government would extradite him to Poland to be punished under Polish law, even under pressure from the Polish government.

I think the crux of the issue is that this event [if real] was supposed to be an Israeli-Polish event bringing both nations together, yet so often, when Jews talk about the Holocaust, they like to mention the 'bad Poles' who helped the Nazis. If they want to mention the collaborators every time they discuss the Holocaust, fine, why not mention the collaborators of all nations, including Jewish ones? Why only Polish collaborators? This I think is what annoys the Polish people.

Oh Really? An Israeli politician didn't hesitate to lie about history of his family. A Jewish journalist made up a story about his too. I think there is a pattern and I wouldn't be surprised if this would have been a lie too.


Which is a number that had been pulled from someone's dirty behind. Those people are reprehensible and disgusting in their disregard for the truth.


A slogan coined by idiots which is grossly off the mark and insulting to all the victims of the WWII in Poland.

@cms neuf
You are incorrect. But, are entitled to an opinion. I am not here to argue with you about what you believe.

Of course sir ! I respect you too and we need to be civil to each other

Anybody seen this story on the BBC? Stanisław Chrzanowski being investigated for alleged war crimes. I notice they're careful not to suggest the guy was Polish. It's now part of Belarus.

bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-43441118

I think he's dead now, though the article said that they were looking at more people. Wasn't it in Slonim?


They were tactful about that - and described him as a British citizen.

In theory, they don't have a choice. The EAW system means that the extradition is supposed to be automatic - as long as the paperwork is correct. This is why the Irish judge sending the case to the ECJ was so significant - if the ECJ says that there is indeed a threat to the rule of law in Poland, then other states will be free to refuse the EAW from Poland for anything deemed to be political. It's why Spain was careful not to issue an EAW in the case of the Catalans, because they didn't want to prejudice the EAW system for a clear political crime.

There's a good example here: fairtrials.org/jacek-jaskolski

So, in theory, let's say that you (as a dual British-Polish citizen) were to say bad things about Duda, and they prosecuted you for insulting the President. You could be arrested and deported, even though you hadn't actually committed any crime in the UK.

I think in practice, you're right though - the British government would intervene in this case.

Actually, an interesting compromise could be for the law to only be effective if it concerns statements made someone physically located in Poland at the time of making the statement.

Nope. After Belgium stonewalled Spain in the Puigdemont case, that's dead in the water. Any other country will simply delay until they can't anymore or the country issuing the warrant gives up.

@delph

So you are telling me that ECJ rules mean a Polish law can be applied to people living elsewhere in the EU? That's insane.

Even if that's the case - I don't see how Poland can prosecute Argentinian media.

@Wielki Polak, I don't think the issue is that Jews en masse take some sort of sadistic pleasure in demonizing Poles or Poland, rather, that they don't wish to see her claim that Poles were blameless either, much as was the case in Austria regarding their role in the Anschluss.

Perhaps not until as late as the late '80's and the Waldheim Debacle, Austria claimed that they were victims of Nazi annexation, instead of willing participants.

Again, the critical difference here is that pointing out Austrian complicity wasn't a punishable offense.

I read it in some Polish article yesterday, hard to say If that's true as some other sources actually claim it's a recent event. Not going to waste my time to verify it. Besides, it's not that relevant in this case.


Which "authorities" ? Radomsko is a small town and the mayor has nothing to do with government, most likely he dosn't even belong to any all-country party.


They aren't fabricating it. They are spinning it for their own purpose. A Polonophobic psycho wanted to talk nonsense at the joint event, the local mayor didn't want to have anything to do with it for obvious reasons and they report it as "censorship of Polish authorities", just to add it to the whole tune about "Holocaust surviviors who won't be able to speak up due to new law" and so on. The whole new law isn't even "operational" yet and the mayor didn't wan't to stay next to the psycho saying this nonsense as obviously his voters wouldn't be too happy about it, and that's it ! Jews have launched a manipulation campaign regarding the new law as it will make their gescheft of getting $100 billion out of us much more complicated.

Next to being totally off-topic... thousands of Jewish war criminals died in their own beds (some are still alive) in Israel and elsewhere including UK. Apparently, It would be "anti-semtic" to put them on trial.

The critical issue here is that you are either an idiot or a nasty provocator. Austria was the core of the 3rd Reich, damn load of "Nazis" (including Adolf) were actually Austrian. You dudes come up with this nonsense again and again thinking that it will let you make some profit. You will make nothing, for a start you lost several contracts worth a couple of billions.

Soon hopefully an international commission will be set-up to assess how many of a +0,5 million Poles killed by Bolsheviks, were actually murdered by or with help of Moshe, Shlomo and all.