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Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar


Ziemowit 10 | 2,956    
12 Mar 2018  #481
the cities had a very large German majority (including Danzig) and had been under German rule for centuries.

Danzig is somewhat a special case in this. First, it was not part of the Reich between 1920 and 1938, but it was the Freie Stadt Danzig. The Freie Stadt found itself inside the customs territory of Poland, its monetary unit, the Danziger gulden was equal to the Polish zloty and the railway in Danzig was managed by the Polish state.

Before 1920, GdaƄsk became Prussian/German as a result of the second partition of Poland in 1793. In that year, the citizens of Danzig who were predominantly German were very unwilling to the Prussian rule, their preference being to continue to remain part of the Polish Commonwealth. So saying that Danzig was under German rule "for centuries" is a bit of exaggeration really.
G (undercover)    
12 Mar 2018  #482
In terms of economic worth, Poland was more than adequately compensated.

Leaving all the other issues aside:

1. Holland is better developed than East Germany, still I don't think that giving East Germany to Poland in exchange for Holland (with nearly total population transfer) would be such a great deal for Germany. "Incorporation" of those lands to Poland was a major effort, which took many years and a lot of money.

2. It wasn't Germany, which was "compensating" anyone. Actually Germany hadn't recognized the eastern border till... 1991 I think. Soviets just did what they wanted to, other "powers" agreed and that's it, Germany or Poland had no saying in it.
Lyzko 17 | 4,802    
12 Mar 2018  #483
@Ironside et al.

There can be zero "reconciliation" between Poland and Germany if scholars and historians are no longer even allowed to question certain sacred cows of national history! If Poland did right, then by all means praise the Karskis, Bielickis, Sochas, and Sendlers to the skies. However, if and when Poland did wrong, why surpress the truth, be it concerning Poland, Israel, the US or any other country? For every sympathetic Polish peasant, urban neighbor or whomever who did the Christian thing and tried to help out against the German scourge, there were of course plenty of others who willingly turned in Jews, either for personal profit or sheer hatred.

Let's not whitewash history. Scary to think that this very post in Poland might have me wind up stiffly fined or even jailed.
G (undercover)    
13 Mar 2018  #484
There can be zero "reconciliation" between Poland and Germany

There's nearly full reconciliation between both countries, there are some issues but seem to be less so than between Trump supporters and Dems in the US.

turned in Jews

Oy vey ! Next to being totally off-topic, If you guys are such "truth seekers" perhaps you should finally calculate how many Goys were killed by your "brothers" wearing NKVD uniforms, or think for a while If grandchildren of people, who were living a comfortable life in NY during WW2 should now claim "Holocaust suffering" and talk **** about people who actually lived through it. When Poles were fighting "Nazis" from Norway to Africa, your "heroes" were shooting at English in Palestine. Now you think you are some friggin "judges of humanity". What a joke.
Tacitus 1 | 545    
13 Mar 2018  #485
Actually Germany hadn't recognized the eastern border till... 1991

(West-) Germany recognized the border in 1970 in the name of West Germany, and 1991 in the name of a reunited Germany. 25 years is not really that much if you think about it, it usually takes a generation until such issues are settled.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,404    
13 Mar 2018  #486
How about instead of financial reparations the two nations go old school. Eye for an eye. Germany lets poland invade, occupy for a while, and bomb the crap out of them.

Oh wait the muslim migrants are already doing that
Ironside 47 | 9,038    
13 Mar 2018  #487
here is no question that the former German territories were more developed and thus more valuable than the former Polish territories in the East.

That is rather a moot point, more or less developed it depends on a point of view, we are not talking Kuwait here.

No, because Stalin wanted those territories,

EXACLLY. STALIN was the decision maker here neither Germany or Poland had say in this.
Hence your claim that those land had been a compensation from Germany to Poland for all, or for anything is an utter nonsense and it doesn't reflect reality. It must be some kind of the German urban myth.

A convenient excuse in my eyes.

but the many treaties between Poland and Germany afterwards do.

Well, the point is there was no treaty that would nullify legality of the Polish claims for compensation they have never received. All you have is some Soviet scrap of paper from Moscow. It doesn't really cut it.

So there is only one trick - German pony trick, that pay to all and sundry but Poland.
That is telling.

t is undisputable that the German territory lost in 1945 was overwhelming German in character

Who cares about German character. Germany never bothered about Polish character of the land they grabbed.
The difference here lies in the fact that Poland has undisputable historical claims to those territories, including centuries long rule, oft longer than German rule and if we exclude Prussian rule from the equation, German rule doesn't even came close.
Ironside 47 | 9,038    
13 Mar 2018  #488
to question certain sacred cows of national history!

The only sacred cows of a historical pop for the populace in a certain countries that should know better are Jews. The narrative say that Jews were always the victims and in cases they clearly were not - well they are excused because they were victims. It doesn't even make sense.

If Poland did right, then by all means praise the Karskis, Bielickis, Sochas, and Sendlers to the skies.

I don't care to prices them, Jews should praise them and should price Poland. If they care about Holocaust, historical truth and who did what. If they don't that is their problem and everyone can see them for what they are.

Those people weren't acting in vacuum, Karski was an emissary of the whole underground state in German occupied Poland. They were more then 400 000 people directly involved and their effort and their sacrifice were snubbed by Roosevelt. American Jew didn't lift a finger to help. Their progeny should keep their trap firmly shut.

course plenty of others who willingly turned in Jews

Actually those were very few. A minority that exist in every society. There were Jews who worked for the 'Gestapo' hunting out Jews in hiding and those who helped them.
Tacitus 1 | 545    
13 Mar 2018  #489
That is rather a moot point, more or less developed it depends on a point of view, we are not talking Kuwait here.

Well the differences were rather big though. Probably as big as between Western Germany and the GDR in 1990 at the very least.

Well, the point is there was no treaty that would nullify legality of the Polish claims for compensation they have never received.

This is untrue on several levels. I have written this several times already and it is getting tiresome to repeat. The signed treaties (Warsaw 1970 and the border treaty 1991) have taken care of all eventualities, and Poland did in fact receive financial compensation as a consequence of the border treaty in 1991. There is zero basis for any Polish reparation claims, neither legally, nor morally. The issue is settled.
Lyzko 17 | 4,802    
13 Mar 2018  #490
Spot on, Tacitus!

In 1945, until just 1947, any and all territories once deemed "German" were ceded BACK to their original inhabitants, although not without a series of treaties which hammered out what were felt to be kinks or snags in the wording as to what actually comprises "German" vs. "Polish" lands.

The latter is especially important to bear in mind.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,404    
13 Mar 2018  #491
In 1945, until just 1947, any and all territories once deemed "German" were ceded BACK to their original inhabitants

It was more so territory annexed in WW2 was handed back.. Although it didn't even matter as Poland was sold out. Britain and US violated the agreements made at the Postdam conference to protect the people sharing power with the 'Polish' Commies (a lot of Jews with a vendetta against the AK) and the government in exile's representatives.

Poland must never forget about the western betrayal and understand that no one will come to our aid - it is up to us to be strong and protect ourselves as we can't count on anyone to keep their word in a military alliance




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