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Famous Polish writer prosecuted for free speech


jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #1
Like the return of the PRL, or worse. The government here is determined to make a fool of itself.

Poland has nine different insult laws, including one that covers state symbols, and they all come with potential prison terms.

A popular Polish writer and journalist could face up to three years in prison for calling President Andrzej Duda a "moron" in a Facebook post in November.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-56491949

If Mr Żulczyk wasn't so well-known internationally before this, he's certainly getting a lot of publicity now. And if people outside Poland had little or no opinion on Duda before this; for anyone who's read the coverage of this, that has changed too, and not necessarily for the better.
Poloniusz 4 | 365
23 Mar 2021 #2
Poland has nine different insult laws

Obviously this is a foreign concept to you but anti-social behavior isn't free speech.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #3
Commenting on politicians is "anti-social behaviour" to you?

a foreign concept to you

In your country, isn't free speech guaranteed by law?

This is just another own goal by Poland that invites ridicule. If you type the word 'moron" into the search function here, you get 485 results, many of them about elected politicians in several countries. But hey, Duda is obviously very thin-skinned (or a prosecutor who was remarkably naive about the media response to this is thin-skinned on his behalf)...
Poloniusz 4 | 365
23 Mar 2021 #4
Commenting on politicians is "anti-social behaviour" to you?

This so-called "famous" Polish writer wasn't critiquing policy.

He made a defamatory personal attack.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #5
Polish writer wasn't critiquing policy.

So what?

He made a defamatory personal attack.

Again, so what?

Do you oppose free speech? In your country, it's legally guaranteed...
Poloniusz 4 | 365
23 Mar 2021 #6
We Poles may disagree with each other but there is still an expectation of decorum for the benefit of social cohesion.

Again, this is alien to you because you are British and come from a low trust society due to the corrosive anti-social behavior which is so commonplace in your British homeland.
gumishu 11 | 5,740
23 Mar 2021 #7
@jon357

Famous Polish writer

he's that famous I never heard about him
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #8
Poles may disagree

Evidently not.

You Americans have guaranteed fee speech; wouyld you deny that to people here in Poland?

Anyway, the Polish government have just scored a massive own goal, and not for the first time. Good publicity for the writer and his HBO series too.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #9
And now, the hashtag (using the exact word): #Dudajestdebilem is trending on Twitter and the story is being picked up around the world.

Most politicians just shrug off insults and strong criticism. Talk about thin-skinned and looking foolish.
Poloniusz 4 | 365
23 Mar 2021 #10
he's that famous I never heard about him

He is only famous in the mind of the OP. The same OP who is British and gets excited about hashtags trending on Twitter. A platform used mostly by middle aged white women in America who vote Democrat.

guaranteed fee speech

You could never command speaking fees.

Anyway, Article 54 of the Constitution of the Republic of Poland already guarantees freedom of expression.

And in 2021 it has been PiS which has been championing free speech by working on legislation to ensure that social media companies don't delete content or ban users who are not breaking Polish laws.

So what's the point of this latest PiS bashing thread of yours anyway?
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #11
famous

He's a lot more famous today than he was yesterday. Perhaps the prosecutor wants a new career as his publicist...

Article 54 of the Constitution of the Republic of Poland already guarantees freedom of expression.

So now you're saying the prosecution is unconstitutional.

Yet another own goal by Poland.
Poloniusz 4 | 365
23 Mar 2021 #12
So now you're saying the prosecution is unconstitutional.

Freedom of expression is guaranteed. Anti-social behavior is not.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #13
Freedom of expression is guaranteed.

Tell that to the prosecutor/publicist...

Apparently the HBO serial that he wrote is getting a lot of interest and his book sales are climbing. While PiS have fallen behind Holownia in the polls.

And Poland's getting pretty bad press today too...
Poloniusz 4 | 365
23 Mar 2021 #14
Tell that to the prosecutor/publicist...

Your "famous" Polish writer as the defendant is the one who has to make his case for breaking the law.

And Poland's getting pretty bad press today too...

Well, then it's a good enough reason for you to start packing and leave. And don't worry, no one will notice you are gone.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #15
s the one who has to make his case

Actually, given the presumption of innocence, the prosecutor has to "make his case". Or hers.

Hopefully the prosecution will have enough self-awareness to drop the foolish case. Otherwise, Poland as a state will become even more of an international laughing-stock than the failing PiS regime have already made it.

At least this could never happen in your country...
Ironside 50 | 11,499
23 Mar 2021 #16
Mr Żulczyk

Famous my foot. Never heard about him and I bet most people in Poland haven't heard about him.
Beside all that there is no free speech in Europe or uk.
Anyone who claim otherwise is telling lies or is a moron.

well-known internationally

vt
Possible because he was talking porkies about Poland as a left wing hack?
In Polish law there is a rule that make it illegal to insult a head of state. Some gov made a use of it most not . Most notably Tusk who wasn't a president got a dude who called him a moron beat up by the police and put him in prison without any court ruling for a year. Then he buggered off to Brussels.

Of course liberal democracy tyrants do not care about that. After all Tusk was and is their butt boy.

Ha! but that PiS is a suspect they can even be not liberal, how they dare to act up! Let put them into their place, let's harp on intolerance.

How about go FY?!

the Polish government have just scored a massive own goa

Thanks to massive population oF Soviets in Poland that lies and make up stories and tell them to their foreign 'fiends' in hope to undermine Polish gov that is not Soviet. If at the same time they F up Poland's interests and well being of its people they couldn't care less.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #17
I bet most people in Poland haven't heard about him.

They have now...

Not that you being aware or unaware of something is any yardstick of fame...

Have you not read his Czarne Słońce? It's a good book. It sold well before, and is selling even better thanks to him being a persecuted writer...

Thanks to massive population oF Soviets in Poland

What "massive population oF Soviets in Poland"?

Meanwhile, Jakub Żulczyk gets half a million hits and rising when you search for him, plus 40,000 news items and his book sales rocket, while PiS approval ratings plummet. Publicity like this, you can't buy!
Ironside 50 | 11,499
23 Mar 2021 #18
hey have now...

sure as a political hack not a writer!

d his book sales rocket

well, a short lived fame he must be really bad if his books sell well only after he insulted known people.
Hey even some British press write about him - how about they peruse story about their racist Royal Family? I guess is not news anymore or let say it an old news.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #19
as a political hack not a writer!

As a popular novelist and HBO screenwriter. The political hacks on all sides are writing about this as we speak.

their racist Royal Family

And you know what? People can say that publicly, and much more besides without fear of prosecution. You can even call the Queen, Prime Minister, Leader of HM Opposition, anyone really, a ****, and plenty do.

Of course people are already suggesting that this is all a PR stunt by PiS to draw away attention from their poor handling of power. In PR terms, it's called a 'dead cat', getting people to talk about this rather than more serious things. Eventually, the case will be dropped, and Duda's reputation turned to being an object of mockery. After all, better to sacrifice an unpopular politician who isn't eligible for a further term than draw attention to the shortcomings of potential successors...
Novichok 1 | 4,197
23 Mar 2021 #20
The government here is determined to make a fool of itself.

I agree with you 100%.

This is what happens when a country does not have the First Amendment but does have the Truth Commission.
Duda, by choosing to be a public figure, should have no legal protection from political comments - even if those comments are "insulting". At best, if untrue and damaging, he should be able to sue for libel.

Like the return of the PRL, or worse.

Or worse. In this case, the trial would be beyond ridiculous and center on the definition of "moron" and what "is" is. Sounds familiar? If I were the judge or a juror, the defendant would need to show only one instance where Duda said something really stupid and was (is) a "moron" at that exact moment. Nobody is something all the time.

In the US, they wouldn't be able to even file the charges with the court clerk.

Famous my foot. Never heard about him

That is as relevant as the color of my urine this morning.
Ironside 50 | 11,499
23 Mar 2021 #21
People can say that publicly,

Don't take me wrong, I think whoever tried to use a law against that dude for calling Duda a moron is a real moron. PiS due to the reality of aging JK and infighting is not that great.

I'm only point out that is not a big deal and I'm talking about brazen hypocrite of so called tolerant liberals' who are nether tolerant or liberal like you.

They have done worse and much more and nothing had been said about all that.
While anyone who is not deemed as theirs (liberal) is a fair game.

In this case morons in PiS are at fault. They bended over the fence and pulled their trousers down they can hardly blame anyone for F them up.

A liberal would, they would blame everyone. Hence I hate those hypocrites as they make mockery of a personal responsibility and accountability.
An individual is not their focus at all, they deal in collectives - damn commies.

color of my urine this morning.

Drink it! It should improve your health. Have you drunk it already? They would explain your post. Full of **** and vinegar.

In the US,

who cares and is as relevant as you and your poor p..s life full of equally uneventful visits in urinal.
Lyzko 30 | 7,754
23 Mar 2021 #22
If Poland doesn't sometimes admit her leaders have feet of clay or that the emperor has no clothes, we've got a serious problem!
Novichok 1 | 4,197
23 Mar 2021 #23
who cares

The US has been and always will be a point of reference and a symbol of freedom. Name one country that better protects freedom of speech.
amiga500 2 | 811
23 Mar 2021 #24
i must say that the tv series that he helped write are the two best tv series to ever come out of poland recently.
Belfer (only s1 is good) ogladaj.to/serial/belfer-2016-2017thgpmvsuut.html
Ślepnąc od świateł cda-hd.cc/tvshows/slepnac-od-swiatel/

belfer (the teacher) is also available on all4 walter presents for those in the UK. (with subs) highly recomend good mystery thriller and shows polish town mentality with post communist corruption thrown in as well
mafketis 29 | 9,871
23 Mar 2021 #25
We Poles

You're not Polish...

an expectation of decorum for the benefit of social cohesion

Have you ever been to Poland? Can you follow Polish language media? ..... social cohesion.... ha ha h ah aha ha, good one!
Novichok 1 | 4,197
23 Mar 2021 #26
You're not Polish...

You don't know that. And what is the relevance of if he is or is not?
Today, a guy in Zimbabwe may become a world-class scholar in Polish history and customs in less than 8 hours and know more about both than 95% of Poles currently living in Poland. You know that thing called the internet...It's amazing...

Yes.

I have been through this buls*hit here. No matter what you would post would not be proof enough.
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #27
whoever tried to use a law against that dude for calling Duda a moron is a real moron.

Basically yes.

Because it's a particularly sensitive issue involving the head of state and a bestselling author, it was always going to be high-profile and must have been approved by the prosecutors' office at a high level. This asks several questions:

1. Are they really that naive?
2. If they aren't that naive, are they a. trying to send a message about authoritarianism or b. trying to distract from something else or c. make Duda look foolish?

An individual is not their focus at all, they deal in collectives - damn commies.

Looks that way, doesn't it...
Przelotnyptak1 - | 449
23 Mar 2021 #28
Tell that to the prosecutor/publicist...

He is trying to tell you, not the prosecutor. Instead of using a pinball hammer, Polonius try a sledgehammer; maybe, just maybe, you can penetrate his impenetrable CZACHA
mafketis 29 | 9,871
23 Mar 2021 #29
try a sledgehammer; maybe, just maybe, you can penetrate his impenetrable CZACHA

Is that incitement to violence? Cause.... it kind of seems like incitement to violence....

Boss Hogg clown

More like General Lee....

lee

The only real surprise is that he went to Poland at all

I'm still here (unlike you) because I've chosen to live here (unlike you).

But what can you do? Pol-ams gonna Pol-am....
OP jon357 67 | 17,054
23 Mar 2021 #30
He is trying to tell you,

Ineffectively, since it's the prosecutor and (possibly unwitting) publicist who is in the spotlight here. Her/him and whoever in government approved this...

This one will run and run; it won't take the spotlight off the Covid surge (and probably Polish Mutations) here, though. Distraction techniques are so old hat that they don't even work when the Kremlin tries them, never mind PiS...

Though your contribution is duly noted and dismissed as pointless.


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