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How do Polish men feel about gender equality?


Ironside 50 | 10,919
12 May 2011 #211
Don't give a toss or laugh.
why would Polish women being in superior position in social standing willing to lower her status to mere a equality ?
southern 75 | 7,096
12 May 2011 #212
So, I also think Slavs solved the problem in, for both sides, satisfying manner.

I have to agree that from a male perspective the slavic situation is rather satisfying.
Natasa 1 | 580
12 May 2011 #213
from a male perspective the slavic situation is rather satisfying.

I will confirm that satisfaction, or situation, experienced on the female side is intensive and frequent.
Brothers Slavs deserve nothing but admiration. Sometimes love too ;)
z_darius 14 | 3,968
12 May 2011 #214
"Some scholars claim that the communist experiment was nothing more than an instance of “forced emancipation” and that women’s incorporation into public life was “insincere” because it was motivated by economical interests

Experiment?
Insincere?
What kind of crap is that?
The 1zl they got paid was worth the same as 1zl men got paid.
And now look at you, trunmeting about women making less money (which are economical interests), but at the same time quoting an article stating that emancipation was insincere because it was motivated by economical interests?

Although different laws contained an explicit provision prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender, at the same time there were legislative provisions that aimed to protect motherhood (e.g. shorter working hours, longer maternity leaves, restriction on work at nights and performing jobs involving hard manual labour).

And what's wrong with that?
Are you dying to try some work with a jack hammer breaking up concrete when to fix a road? Try it, come back and tell us how you like the job. It pays well.

While such legislation was intended as a privilege and reward for bearing children, it ensured women’s rights only through the virtue of motherhood and ended up being discriminatory.

How so?
Because it was recognized that women deserved a reward for the burden of 9 months of pregnancy and another 12 of breast feeding? Would you prefer a policy exercised in one of the Amazon tribes whereby a woman go to work almost immediately after child birth while a man would lay down on the birth bed to attract the post natal pains onto himself?

In addition, under communism, the gender-neutral stipulations in different laws (e.g. family laws) were completely absent. Fathers, for example, were not encouraged to share responsibilities for raising children and there was no official notion of the paternity leave (Paci 2002).

Another wrong point. There was much gender equality than the US has ever known. For example, after a divorce the father would certainly have to pay alimony to help finance the child(ren) but the woman had to rely on her newly found feminist freedoms, i.e. get to work, just like the man.

oh, you mean separate but equal? yeah, we tried that before...

When did you finally do some research on the biological and psychological difference between genders. WE ARE DIFFERENT. With all the equality of right, a construction contractor would be insane to hire a woman to fill, say, a mason's helper position. An average woman is simply physically weaker by 40 to 50%. Her body is not as adapted to physical effort as man's body is. Male body is usually cooler, which helps with maintaining the right body temperature in situations of physical effort. Men's pelvis allows them to walk and run faster. They were hunters. Women stayed behind. Female pelvis id much wider to allow for child birth and should it become any wider a woman would be simply unable to walk. We could go on and on.

it's like trying to explain the difference between green and red to someone who's colorblind

Based on your one sided, closed minded and militant approach to the topic at hand, I'm surprised that you acknowledge that colors even exist.
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
12 May 2011 #215
Equality is an interesting concept... but if it can only be equated by money, then it is inherently flawed and generically useless anyway... because at the end of the day household income is usually shared by both sexes...

In other words I'd say both sexes do work to make life easier for the other.

''Rights" can only be expressed in legislative terms... By their definition they are not *afforded* by men per se, nor earned... (which is the interpretation that *really* irks some women..) but are simply *recognised* by law where they may not have been before... being implemented in all manners within the context of policy and procedure thereafter... (embedded at the macro levels of society).

But then again we can't chop up time and pretend history doesn't matter either... ''Women's Rights'' *have* lagged behind that of Men's, if only because Men's rights have somehow been assumed against that of Women's... (And of course Women do have somewhat different issues which need addressing in this way compared to Men...). But they are not inherently *Women's rights*... they are simply Rights in recognition of the unique requirements of Women (and Mothers) which need to be addressed through fair and judicial means...

But the *Battle of the sexes* which is always raging (in spite of the Women's movement!) makes this all the more complicated... Men see these *Rights* as corresponding to a perceived diminishing of sovereignty, or as being *imposed* on *them* in some way... (on their dominion...)

*Or* they laugh in the face of Women's Rights because they see them as a perverse twist of Equality! Which now recognises Women in society as having greater access to liberties than Men. Tricky...

And although Rights are a concept of choice... it's true that they shouldn't be afforded to one gender over another... (but this is what happened throughout history so we need to deal with that!)

But by the same token, we need to move away from this paradigm whereby *choice* (as afforded to certain individuals in society when for a good reason...) over others, is somehow tantamount to the reduction of choice for others in society... (a threat).

It simply does not always imply that.

All this is silly but it makes the definition of *Equality* even more difficult to extract...

However I do believe that the predominant *domestic* debate over choice (fairness of choice in realtionships/ at home) is down to the behaviours of the reasoned human beings involved... (who are in most cases more reflexive and adaptable than the laws and policies in society to which they are accountable...)

But *movements*, as they are recognised by history, are being pushed usually when there is none of this behavioural buffer... when the end user has found no other way to gain what they consider fair in the situational context which they are in... and so seeks retribution through judicial means...

So all this is an issue of the breakdown of decency between people... that requires *Rights* to be established in the first place...

I guess the Universe has a way of *righting* itself! :))

The fact that this generic idea of *fair* is somewhat skewed and usually completely subjective by nature doesn't help...

I can't sleep!
boletus 30 | 1,366
12 May 2011 #216
biological and psychological difference between genders

I can definitely attest to that. In my former incarnation I was involved with vibration control and I studied impact of noise and vibration on human health. The obvious suspects are pneumatic tools, which cause a lot of nerve and blood vessel problems. A lesser known fact is that driving tractors and other heavy equipment may cause a spine damage. Women suffer more than men because of their different constitution. Swedes were conducting medical research of this sort in early 1960s. They have proved, without the doubt, that the "happy woman tractor driver", as you could see in some communist posters, is an endangered specie.

I have no time to search for such articles now, but I found something related:"Women's Driving Posture: An Overlooked Health Issue", by Dennis Zacharkow, PT, yogaback.com/The_YogaBack_for_Driving/Women_s_Health_Concerns/women_s_health_concerns.html. It contains the references to other interesting articles, such as "Behaviour of the spine under shock and vibration: a review", and dozens more.

Study it, ItsAllAboutME - it may save your health.

And yes, I can also attest to the fact that my female colleagues and I were receiving exactly the same meagre salary, after being accepted for the glamorous positions of junior assistants at some institute of some university in PRL. You know such things by standing in line to the cashier window every month and signing up for the cash received.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
12 May 2011 #217
Men see these *Rights* as corresponding to a perceived diminishing of sovereignty, or as being *imposed* on *them* in some way... (on their dominion...

I can't speak for all men but I, for one, would love my wife to make twice, make it thrice as much I make, instead of about the same. I would then be able to stay at home, take care of our daughter who is 21 and sometimes at home, pet the cat, push the pre-programmed buttons on the washing machine. I would even separate whites from color before tossing the laundry in the tub.

Since I was brought up in Poland, in the terrible separation of duties at home, I would cook meals every day. After all, I had to do it regardless of what kind of pee-pee parts I have.

The above wouldn't take that much during the day so I would still climb 12 feet up the ladder to fix the damn gutter and that shingle that just keeps on flapping every time there are high winds. Having mowed the lawn, I'd go to the garage and devote myself my chauvinistic hobby of woodworking.

I'm alll not only for equality, but I'd even push for the reversal of the inequality. Hey, at least if I found myself in some kind of a disaster I would be able to follow the orders for men, children and the elderly to evacuate first. The only downside of that would be that I'm kinda sentimental about the wifey and I'd miss her terribly if it came to that, and if she had to stay behind to save the world.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
12 May 2011 #218
now that young unmarried urban women outearn men (despite men still doing the dangerous jobs)

This is a crock, firstly most young unmarried urban women earn the same as cleaners and waitresses this aint Friends

Those waitresses earn as much as waiters and female cleaners make more than unemployed men. Of course, young men working in dangerous jobs get paid more than female retail clerks but shouldn't they? Anyway, my point was that "unmarried urban women outearn men. Your next comment more-or-less agrees with that.

Young unmarried urban women professionals earn the same as the equivalent group of males,

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704421104575463790770831192.html

From the link: "The earning power of young single women has surpassed that of their male peers in metropolitan areas around the U.S., a shift that is being driven by the growing ranks of women who attend college and move on to high-earning jobs.

In 2008, single, childless women between ages 22 and 30 were earning more than their male counterparts in most U.S. cities, with incomes that were 8% greater on average..."


I'm always happen to straighten you out. We seem to have a tradition of that. By the way, author Warren Farrell notes 40 occupations where women are paid more than men for the same job, merely because they are female (he doesn't even include modeling where the gap is humongous). Of course this sort of discrimination is 'politically correct'.
Eurola 4 | 1,906
13 May 2011 #219
Sure, the wages were shhitty, but they were equally shhitty for both men and women and that's the topic of this thread. Not the economic situation in various countries.

Yeah, that's what I experienced back in Poland. Frankly, I did not know I was a woman (besides the obvious)until I came to this country.Women are treated differently and openly told they are not. The expression of 'glass ceiling' comes to mind.
southern 75 | 7,096
13 May 2011 #220
See for example the striking wage gap between male and female prnstars where men make about one tenth of their female colleagues despite them doing most of the job.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
13 May 2011 #221
lol, Oh, well then, that makes it 41 professions where women get paid more than men for the same job. You did however, correctly point out that men do most of the 'work' (as usual).

By the way, the new slogan is, "women get paid 82 cents to a man's dollar for doing just 41 cents of the work". Everyone, raise your hand if you like it. No, not your middle finger, your whole hand.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
13 May 2011 #222
Yeah I really have to agree. Women don't do good work.
I mean even Female bar tenders despite being more pleasant to look at generally are much more poor than Male bar tenders.

Most Male Bar tenders are very intentive & they pick up more on what is going on & what people want & who needs to be served.

I notice Female bar tenders often space out & Forget about you more often & they get wrapped up into non sense.

I mean more women can cook. Yet, almost all chiefs are Males.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
13 May 2011 #223
You're so dumb...

Spoken like a little girl

...if you're so worried about the invasion I proposed...

Ah yes, the invasion you proposed. Could you elaborate as to how you would like to see it done? A massive army assault? maybe germ or nuclear warfare? Try to be specific.

As to your idea that Polish men should be shipped off to Siberia (is that sexist?), I would like to discuss the logistics of what that would entail. Would women run the railroads all by themselves while herding men into boxcars? Would a few men be allowed to stay in Poland to deal with impregnation issues?

Will that propeller beanie on your head stop spinning?

from my own neck of the woods:
"Women, Minorities Largely Absent from Fortune 500 Corporate Boards"

"Women, Minorities Largely Absent from crane operator, welder, oil rig worker, roofer, flight engineer, electrical powerline installer, long-haul trucking, garbage collection, coal mining, bomb technician, hazmat work, and auto mechanic jobs." News at 6pm.

Tomorrows headline: "Earth to be destroyed by giant meteor; women and children are the most affected"
z_darius 14 | 3,968
13 May 2011 #224
There are still some issues to be addressed with the terrible inequality since quite a few examples indicate that a "certain group" does not really want the true equality of genders. Some examples:

- why do the police have to send at least one female officer to an issue involving a child or a woman (domestic violence), which happens even if the violent party is the woman?

- why, in the case of a violent woman it is the man who will be escorted out of the house, while the woman will stay in?

- why is there even a right for women to chose a female doctor, border guard etc if we are really equal?
- why is it women and children first, in emergencies. I understand children, but don't women want to be equal?
- why do we have separate washrooms for men and women if women want to be equal?
- why is it that universities offer woman studies but no man studies?

Looks to me like there is still a lot of inequality going on.

And I still haven't received any answers in regards to the wonderful sisterhood's struggle to help not those women in executive positions who have to settle for a BMW 500 series instead of 700 series (poor poopsies), but to fight for those whose life are often valued lower than a life of cattle? Where are those mass marches organized by pressuring our government to help save girls in Africa and some Asian countries from genital mutilation? Where are the mass protests against girls in those areas being raped and then sentenced to death for the "offense"? I would gladly join any mass protest, sign a mass petition to Saudi Arabia's government, and send a donation to any woman's organization that is serious about help where it's truly needed.

If I could see women hit the streets in support of those issues, and in numbers just half of those who attend Oprah's show daily, I'd join in.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,839
13 May 2011 #225
you have a very good point there z darius....that is why I cannot take british "feminists" seriously ...in Europe and America we can live how we like and join any profession we choose..I just thank God I was not born in some bloody dreadful place like those you mention.

But, darius z...shared bathrooms.??...ewww pleeze
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
14 May 2011 #226
Looks to me like there is still a lot of inequalit

You listed a few of the unequal policies that hurt men but you won't find feminist women admitting or even discussing them. There is a long list of programs that hurt men but favor women. For instance, you won't see feminists wanting women to register for the draft because that's too equal. You will however, hear them whining about the "pay gap" even when it's shown to be false when all the factors are evaluated. Instead feminists will still believe in their self-serving rhetoric. Logic does not intrude into their agenda because feminists have no temporal consciousness. They live in the moment. Consider how few of them are genuinely able to see the potential consequences of their actions. It's always all about them. That's why more and more men are learning to tolerate women rather than love them. ... and of course these same women will complain about that too.

As feminist Susannah Breslin stated about dinner dates; "We lied. We don’t want to pay half." That's feminism.

"I'm the woman, so open my doors, pay my way, pay for dates, buy me diamonds and give me a house and affirmative action in white collar power careers BUT TREAT ME LIKE AN EQUAL!"

As "the lady of the lamp" Florence Nightingale, a true hero of mankind said, " Women have no sympathy . . . And my experience of women is almost as large as Europe. And it is so intimate too. Women crave for being loved, not for loving. They scream at you for sympathy all day long, they are incapable of giving any in return for they cannot remember your affairs long enough to do so."

I can only thank modern feminists who constantly remind me of this.
pgtx 30 | 3,156
14 May 2011 #227
"I'm the woman, so open my doors, pay my way, pay for dates, buy me diamonds

zimmy, do you open doors for your woman? do you buy her gifts? do you pay for dinners and other dates?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,839
14 May 2011 #228
why should he unless she is disabled or maybe he if was just being courteous as one would to anyone who is passing through the door just behind you...

As for that dreadful thing of messing about with the chair at dinner as though the woman is so weak she cannot move it herself...it's just an insult.

And as for the gift thing..well I have this female friend who loves to be "spoilt" (as she calls it) by her men, and indeed would expect nothing less.......I asked her why he had given her his car,,she smirked and said it was becasue she was " good in bed". I found this disgusting as though we are all nothing more than w.hores. (mind u if anyone wants to give me a car, mines a BMW, thanks)
ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
14 May 2011 #229
do you pay for dinners and other dates?

lol
at this point, I'd be surprised if anyone would go out with him if he didn't pay them cash to do so

I think the absolute worst

unequal policies that hurt men

have to do with

separate washrooms for men and women

think of all the money Zimmy could save if he didn't have to pay to see certain female parts
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
14 May 2011 #230
zimmy, do you open doors for your woman? do you buy her gifts? do you pay for dinners and other dates?

I offer the same courtesies to women as I do to men. No more special treatments because I give women the "equality" they claim they want. Due to my lifestyle I'm aware that many women consider me a "security object". Because of that you'd be surprised at how many avail themselves as "sex objects". It's funny that they throw away their feminism when it's something they personally desire. As to the rest Rozumiemnic actually explained it quite well. She seems to live up to her name.

ItsAllAboutME, you have not responded to the questions asked of you in post #229. Instead you once again regurgitated some childish projections of how you behave. Since you wished Poland to be attacked please enlighten us as to how that should be done. Also, please elaborate on how Polish men will be transferred to Siberia. I'm certain that I'm not the only one who is interested in how your devil's heart works.
pgtx 30 | 3,156
14 May 2011 #231
I offer the same courtesies to women as I do to men.

i understand.... can you please answer yes or no to my questions, please?
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
14 May 2011 #232
This thread is becoming a headache... don't we have enough aesthetic out there...?

And we only comprise of TWO genders... magine we were more... :O
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
14 May 2011 #233
i understand.... can you please answer yes or no to my questions, please?

If you understand then why are you requesting "yes or no" answers? You sentence/question contains an implied contradiction.

This thread is becoming a headache

This thread deals with gender equality but you don't like the responses from the men who have had enough of the constant male-bashing these past four decades. Such misandry is ubiquitous in feminisms' literature; articles, books, movies, sit-coms, tv commercials and of course universities whose latest hot bed tactics are the many "slut walks" scheduled for this summer. Perhaps some of the female posters here will march in these "slut-pride" protests? Female empowerment certainly has taken a turn.....

don't we have enough aesthetic out there...?

It's more than obvious that many here have little knowledge of the real intentions of professional feminism. I recommend the following reading materials:

"Red Feminism" by Kate Weigand
"Spreading Misandry" by Katherine K. Young
"Sexual Personae" by Camille Paglia
"Professing Feminism" by Daphne Patai
"The Myth of Male Power" by Warren Farrell

we only comprise of TWO genders... magine we were more..

If there was a real third sex than men would gravitate toward it. It would have to be a nicer one .....
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
14 May 2011 #234
It's more than obvious that many here have little knowledge of the real intentions of professional feminism. I recommend the following reading materials:

So we can hate a little more...?
You're holding onto thoughts that make you feel bad about others... I don't get that?

A book doesn't change the way you gravitate towards the opposite sex (people). Your attitude does.
And by your nature you're actually doing a lot to promote feminism here... more than anyone else in fact.

Just try to model women on your mother... I'm sure even she'd appreciate that.

This thread deals with gender equality but you don't like the responses from the men who have had enough of the constant male-bashing these past four decades..

You have over intellectualised the only romantic love you're ever going to get. I don't get it? Turn the television off, close the books, and go out and fall in love in that nubile Spring air Zimmy...

If there was a real third sex than men would gravitate toward it. It would have to be a nicer one .....

Just remember I love you Zimmy.. in that nurturing, caring and ultra feminine way... :)
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
14 May 2011 #235
A book doesn't change the way you gravitate towards the opposite sex

Many anti male feminist books have certainly influenced many women. So I guess you are mistaken.

I'll suggest one more book; "Who Stole Feminism" by Christina Hoff Sommers. If interested readers only purchase one book on this subject than I recommend this one.

you're actually doing a lot to promote feminism here

Only to the jaded mind. I suggest that some here are learning something for the first time and like good medicine, it hurts a little at first.

You're holding onto thoughts that make you feel bad about others... I don't get that?

Nothing beats feeling bad about others like a womans' gender studies class. So many women seem to major in hating males. Next time you see a television ad featuring yet another dumb male who is stupid or is laughed at or even hit or kicked than you'll begin to "get that" as you put it.

Not to worry, despite my lectures here which seem to shock the delicate female constitution, I am quite the optimist. You have not had the privilege of seeing my mesmerizing blue eyes and my captivating seductive smile. Not to mention my immense modesty.....

You have over intellectualised the only romantic love you're ever going to get.

Honey, if you only knew.

just remember I love you Zimmy.. in that nurturing, caring and ultra feminine way... :)

Oh, then you're not a feminist :) Those virtues are very rare in the feminist cults.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,839
14 May 2011 #236
As to the rest Rozumiemnic actually explained it quite well. She seems to live up to her name.

for gods sake zimmy I am one of the few women here who listens to your points and sometimes agrees with you. Whats your problem? oooh maybe you are just toooo clever for me
z_darius 14 | 3,968
14 May 2011 #237
But, darius z...shared bathrooms.??...ewww pleeze

Okay, perhaps I went too far here.
Despite being all for equality, I wold find it extremely hard and painful (depending on how many beers I had) to wait for my turn in some washroom , behind herds of ladies covering the previous five layers of makeup with another one and wiggling lipsticks like there were arc welding sticks meant to keep their owners mouth welded shut, but they appear to keep them welded open.

I'm sure, waiting for your turn in the said establishment can't be fun, and the whole algorithm of peeing is so different between that of a man and a woman that conflicts would inevitably ensue and lead to inequality. After all, women's bodies are far from optimal for efficient and hygienic use of a urinal.
southern 75 | 7,096
14 May 2011 #238
well I have this female friend who loves to be "spoilt".

She sounds like a Polka.
I think Zimmy will now appreciate why ancient Greeks found love and company of men so much superior.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
14 May 2011 #239
She sounds like a Polka.

or rather like that joe I heard a while ago:

Why go through the hassles of marriage.
Just find a woman you hate and buy her a house.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
14 May 2011 #240
Just find a woman you hate and buy her a house.

I don,t think it was a joke... Pop star Rod Stewart said it....

Mind you , he should know , he has been married a few times...


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