What's wrong with Poland? I don't see anything.

wow amazing thread, the last two posts particularly profound, there's a sort of Ulysses/Haiku quality to them... but better


just look at it, aren't you amazed?

Not at all. Not from those two. I just didn't understand how you could compare them with a) an extremely difficult Japanese poem type, and b) the greatest 20th century writer in the English language (whose work is, contrary to popular opinion, not that difficult with a little help. OK, Finnegan's Wake is nuts, but otherwise JJ is more accessible than most people are aware).


OK. kondzior's post does resemble the Cyclops episode in Ulysses, when the character known as the Citizen rants about Jews.

No big risk of it with our poor benefit packages:-)

I could and I did and yes, sarcasm was strongly implied

oh oh, ok. so that changes everything. i'm fine with immigrants, as long as i don't see them or have to deal with them.

see guys, i'm not really concerned with how it affects Poland, i'm only concerned with whether or not it's in MY town. logically, one would then deduce that immigrants is "what's wrong with Poland" because yours truly has some in my neighborhood and I don't like it. and by golly, everyone should be concerned for my well being.

you have amazingly selfish agendas. let's give this man a warm round of applause!

I was born in that "sh!tty place" so please note:
Foreigners do not create ghettos in Warsaw, but some areas are more popular for some nations then others. Rich immigrants (eg. most of Chinese, some Vietnamese, some Indians) living in better districts having polish neighbours. Poor are living with local "proletariat" in poor districts. The difference is that asians usually do not create any relations with their neighbours, but other europeans usually are more open.

Your description is very accurate , but I must inform you for your well being that most of Poland`s haters who post on PF are not Americans of Polish descent but expats mostly from Great Britain who came to Poland to teach English , but because they barely can make ends meet they are very frustrated , because they didn`t become selfmade millionaires and the only one thing that keeps them alive is the idea of bashing Poles . What a pity that this attitude can`t apply to Poles who can`t say any negatives about Britain !

.Now all their frustration they spill on Poles or Polonia posters . The norm and adopted rule here is bashing everybody who gives any positive approach to Poland.

Unfortunately that's true:(

Not true, don't assume that anyone who speaks English is British. This site is full of people with an agenda, thats true, but where they are from and their motivation is not easy to determine.

I have an agenda and motivation - I can't stand racist dumb Americans making Poland seem like some sort of village backwater.

Of course , you are right , but the majority of those people with agenda come from UK. Americans are more objective than them in my opinion. On the other hand there are posters from UK who are objective too .

No, bullshit. In no way is it limited to the British and you missed my point - they are arn't even British but you don't understand that.

That would be an interesting survey to conduct, just to count them and to find out what country they are from. But, it would be extremely difficult to reach a consensus on the definition of a "Poland's hater". Take Harry as one example. He stresses that he doesn't hate Poland, yet very many people on the forum are inclined to accuse him of it. Where's the truth? Take Fuzzy as another example. He had got so frustrated with Poland that he decided to leave for America. Is he a "Poland's hater"? Even if he is, he may be easily and rightfuly justified as Poland did not live up to his dreams, so he left having no other choice as one's dreams for hapiness isn't something you are able to revert easily.

As to reasons why many people here should "hate" Poland, I disagree with you that it is a financially motivated "hatred". Many ex-pats in Poland are very well-off by Polish standards. I think a main cause would be the difference in mentality between Poland and Western Europe which is still very big. Some would like it, some would pass over it judging it obvious and natural. Many, however, would be extremely annoyed by it. Notice that some Polish people dislike some other Polish people, too. Take Father Rydzyk, for example. Even some Catholics in Poland would call him insane. But they - unlike foreign people in Poland - are used to this kind of priests, so he wouldn't annoy them, they would simply laugh at him rather than be spreading hatred about Poland because of him.

A great deal of the animosity we see on PF comes from one side, largely but not entirely made up of PolAms, who cannot stand any criticism of Poland whatsoever, and others, like me, who cannot stand the self-delusion which is exhibited by the others. A case in point. Some time ago people got very hot under the collar when it was mentioned that cheating is endemic in Polish educational establishments. Everybody in Poland knows this to be true, but the deniers claimed that it was not a problem. This descended into farce as some denied that there was any cheating at all, one member accusing me of not knowing what I was talking about because I am not Polish. In fact I do know what I am talking about as I have been teaching here since 2000. This is just one example. The people who deny that bad things happen here think they are patriots. They are not. They juat make Poland look silly. Which it is not.

It's because he dares to tell it how it is, rather than covering up the nasty bits and only promoting a "POLSKA POLSKA" mentality. The guy is passionate...no, obsessive about Polish history (ask him about his holidays and what he did there!) - and I think the usual suspects accuse him of being a Poland-hater simply because they can't admit the truth.

I also wonder why a Poland-hater would stay here for what, 16 years?

It's worth pointing out that much of the "OMG YOU HATE POLAND" abuse comes from Americans who have never lived in Poland, who have never been to Poland and who have never helped Poland in any way. Just like Dave, really.

i actually really like this post and I think it has a lot of truth to it.

I will always have 2 strikes against me as an American on this forum because people have preconceived notions about us, it's just the way it is, but because i grew up in a country that in most cases is eons ahead of Poland, i simply see stuff that a Pole couldn't even imagine and therefore, form opinions accordingly. i've always said that poles live very isolated lives and this is a big reason why. going from poland to my country is like leaving and going to another planet which is why i see things way way way differently than the average pole.

SO MANY TIMES i get criticized for being the typical arrogant douche american but a lot of that is probably due to the fact that i am simply not afraid to call a spade a spade on here and people get their a$$ hurt over things they KNOW is true about Poland but refuse to admit. I could moan and groan about the USA just as well but hey, this isn't a USA forum and the USA is already brought up enough as it is (i'm bringing her up now based on Ziemowit's post).

if that makes me a douche, so be it, but i think Ziemowit's post hits on some things that would definitely clue someone in on "what's wrong with Poland" because it may not be "wrong" to poles in some cases but completely wrong for foreigners to the country and because we're talking about poland, a country that quite frankly leaves much to be desired, foreigners finding things wrong with poland, especially westerners, is sure to come up and come up often.

>>> i am simply not afraid to call a spade a spade on here and people get their a$$ hurt over things they KNOW is true about Poland but refuse to admit..>>>

To be honest not everyone. Positive ctiricism is welcomed from someone whois observant , have lived for a while in Poland ... .

On the other hand I met some narrow-minded,ignorant people in UK who have lots opinions never even being in Poland. This irritates me

>>>i've always said that poles live very isolated lives and this is a big reason why. going from poland to my country is like leaving and going to another planet which is why i see things way way way differently than the average pole.>>>

What do you mean by it? Isolated was maybe at the times of Iron curtain but now??????

Actually, quite a lot of what you say isn't true. All the claiming that people live in tiny flats and can't afford to travel is complete lies - all because it's based on your experience as a poorly qualified person working in an area that you aren't qualified to do.


I have my doubts that you see anything that Poles can't imagine. Except perhaps, supermarkets full of grossly obese people.


No, you see it through the eyes of someone who couldn't succeed in Poland. That's the harsh truth.

the government and all the social structure formed on Soviet matrices.

you are a broken record.

Personal attacks, of course. Par for the course. It's the same thing over and over with you, man. I post something, express an opinion, and you tell me that the reason I'm wrong is because I was poor in Poland. It's completely ridiculous. You know what, even if it was true, you still wouldn't have a point.

Come up with something new, man. It's friggin' old.

I'd really love those people who post here claiming they love Poland so much and I hate it so much could tell us all about all the things they have done for Poland, then we can compare who has done more.

As for my last holiday, it was in Sobibor. My next one will be down Przemysl, checking out the Molotov line, and Zamosc, checking the progress of their project to rebuild the city walls, and possibly doing a little research into the traces of Police battalion 101 (the ones from Ordinary Men etc)

My point exactly. I wonder when the last time those proud US Polonia patriots actually came to Poland?

^ Never. Although I have no doubt that of they'd been in Poland between 1939 and 1944, they'd have joined the ranks of the very willing helpers of Hitler's executioners.

Fuzzy is quite right and it is the moderators' fault for allowing this freak, delphiandomine, to continually engage in off-topic personal abuse of other forum members.


The fact that Harry has "no doubt" that every Polish-American who disagrees with him would have joined the Nazis in World War 2 Poland shows what a delusional, hate-filled, fanatic he is. The forum does not need this insanity.

What, exactly, has this got to do with Poland and the problems that she has?


And again, what has this got to do with Poland?

Actually, what's wrong with Poland is the presence of a large group of Americans that claim some affiliation to this fine country. The sooner that Poland disassociates herself with them, the better.

Good. I would like to visit these places, too. One day I will, I hope.

Ditto!


Yes, that almost true.


Just one ? I thought you were bullied by PolAm;s in force or whatnot. Yes, some people debated that issue but not really denied that. If anything they presented their perspective.


Do you mean lack of respect they present?


that kind of attitude resulted in the civil war in America.


that is BS, the guy has his own skewed vision of Polish history and cannot take it if somebody disagrees with him, yes that obsession but a wrong kind of obsession,

You mean the version that's peer reviewed, checked and agreed upon by professionals - rather than what a journalist from Gazeta Polska writes?

GP ? What that paper has to do with anything ?
There is no one version agreed by all professionals, dominating version - yes, but it doesn't mean that everybody bend in the same way.

Sometimes there is political pressure that decide matters not the truth for example Jedwabne is such a case !
Fine, everybody have the right to his version and his "obsession" but in the said dude case is much more - it is unhealthy obsession. It is his version or none. He goes about that abusing people who disagree with him and that is seriously unbalanced behaviour.

Anyway I don't care no more, I'm out of here for good. (just popping in now and then)- enjoy.

What an amazingly vile comment.

If you want to stoop that low, you won't mind me pointing out that you would have been one of Stalins Little Killers.