K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland

With a preponderance of 'confirmed bachelors'. And if there's one thing I know about queens (and trust me, I know) we like money.

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289321,00.html

I'd say you better bump it up a little.

The above is a fair point, I am not going to suggest for a moment that all priests are good ones, there is enough factual stories to prove that some priests over the years have abused their positions, in 2012 who can you trust, can we trust politicians, bankers,doctors,lawyers,accountants, 20 years ago if you qualified in any of these professions, you would be considered a pillar of your community, a forthright person. It is even worse in the USA, you can actually get ordained online: themonastery.org/?destination=ordination

^ Trust me at least as many of the ones from 20 years ago were utter scum, it's just that then it was easier to hide that fact.

Indeed, I could tell you about some real horror stories (in fact, I did tell you!) - but there are some great guys out there too.

I've noticed one thing - the more active a priest is in his community (in terms of doing things, not in terms of interfering) - the better he tends to be. It seems to be very much the ones who are "I'm a priest, bow down and respect me" who tend to be far worse.

Always thought that if the church had an effective mechanism to remove the bad ones and to deal with problems quickly - it would be a real force to be contended with, not only in Poland, but in the whole of Europe.


That explains why you're never in Warsaw to come to the pub :P

To return to the thread somewhat -

What's this about chalking it on the door frame? It's always chalked directly on the door here...

" Always thought that if the church had an effective mechanism to remove the bad ones and to deal with problems quickly - it would be a real force to be contended with, not only in Poland, but in the whole of Europe."

You haven't thought that one through: acknowledge some priests are less than perfect, as if the Catholic church would do that!

And that's exactly the issue.

The same arrogance caused the Spanish to reject the church, the same in Ireland - guys, learn from your mistakes!

Then again, when you've got people who blindly support everything you do for their own twisted reasons, it's no surprise that certain elements think they're untouchable.

It's called tithing: 10% of your income goes to the church. The Jews are very strict in that regard. You want to be a member of the synagogue, you tithe 10%. Or so I was told by my Jewish friends.

I was raised in a devout Polish Catholic household and neighborhood in Chicago and I can't say I ever seen that inscription above the door. As for the secularist, materialistic scum, these are your fellow human beings. The foundation of Christianity is charity, something the Roman Church conveniently forgets.

I can't answer for all Polonia but in my experience with the Polish community in Canada- they do put it on their doors also.

Yes.

I have it's on three of the four doors on my floor of a relatively new building (finished around 2005).

I've seen it on others in the same stairway but the layout of the building means I don't see all of them.


I'd say it's expanded to secular contexts but that doesn't deprive it of its religious context as well.

I have seen it on new flats also- built as recently as 2008
The thing about Poland is that religion and culture are so intertwined it seems to be that if a person denies a typical religious custom they are almost denying the culture. I don't think people are returning to religion because of the economic times but rather as a way of returning to the culture- less McDonalds- so to speak.

It also works both ways Pip, if foreigners choose to settle in Poland, until the point they have been given Polish passports they are guests of the country and should therefore act accordingly and respect the tradition and values of the host nation, as a good guest should. If I invited someone into my home I expect them to follow the rules of our home, if they are rude or made negative comments about our family traditions,beliefs or values, they would be asked to leave and NOT return.


I can see your angle on a culture-less McDonalds society, it reminds me of a true story about an English guy in Warsaw, every time he would pass the McDonalds with his two boys, he would shout out ' its the devils food ' this became a family joke,his boys are now 11 and 17 and do not eat Mc Donalds, the English guy is a agnostic, so it was not about religious beliefs.. In respect of economic uncertainty and increasing church attendence's. Recession turns peoples lives upside down. It helps them realize that they don't have a sufficiency unto themselves. Not having a job, not being able to pay the monthly bills, wondering where the grocery money will come from, these are all things that cause even those that are furthest from God to question their own self-sufficiency. They come to a point where they realize that they can't do it by themselves and seek a higher power.

Thanks guys :)


God forbid saying the same thing to a Pole abroad though - we all know how they only choose to respect the bits they like.

Bit like the British, really...

Zero from three on my floor and zero on the floor below too (building is from 1948).

Your home is your possession, and one which you have worked hard to acquire. Only a few naturalised Poles can make the same statement about Poland.


I'm told that opium sales also go up during recessions.

I quite often visit the UK, therefore it is quite easy to stay in touch with the reality of what is ' moving on ' in my country of Birth. I can imagine it would be very difficult to stay in touch with reality, if you only used the internet,newspapers or others peoples point of view as your source of real information. With time all tradition and values become more modernized with the next generation, this is what is called progress. Some people are willing to accept it, others believe nothing will change unless they change it, then one day they must wake up...


Agreed, many of us have worked very hard to purchase our property here in Poland, with no leg up from family.


This may also be true, I have no source or statistics, people will find a solace or escape in many different ways.

I didn't mean insulting ones religion or culture- you kinda lost me here. I just meant that because the Polish culture and religion and we could add war to that mix, is so intertwined that is difficult to pick and choose what is religious and what is cultural. So to deny something that is specifically a religious custom could mean to many family members that they are in fact denying Polish culture- when this is not the intention.

Excellent point, its is the force that you will meet with, when Pols believe you are denying them their history or culture, they have lost so much over the centuries now they are unprepared to let go, we could use Radek Sikorski and his recent comments on Poland's inclusion within Northern Europe, this has been met with vehement criticism from all levels of society in Poland. In many countries it would have been considered a 'rallying call' or 'back to business comment'.

Why do you write such bulls*its here ? Do you really think people here are stupid enough to believe in that ?

Yes, of course no priest would ever engage in such behaviour. Just as no priest would ever rape small children.

Entirely true - and plenty more stories where that one came from. Why do you write such nasty posts - do you expect people to take them seriously?

By the way, do you have K+M+B chalked on your door? And how does this public display of religion affect your daily life?

No.


It doesn't me at all.

I have no idea.
Why would that be of any interest to you.

^ Poles living outside Poland are often more conservative/traditional than Poles in Poland and I was wondering if this was another example of that.

Reading the comments, it is an embarrassment to be fully of Polish descent.

Those who write a nasty comments here are actually not Polish.

I saw this for the first time last year after one of my friends had the priest come to bless her house. I'd never actually heard of this tradition before.

I wouldn't say she is overly conservative, but maybe because she no longer lives in Poland she tries to keep up with tradition. For sure her parents in Poland would have this on their front door.

I can't say how common it is here in the UK, but hers is the only door I've seen this written on.

I don't care if it is still a tradition in Poland or not. It is a tradition that I choose to continue. Our church gives us chalk and incense. I think it is beautiful and I mark our door every year. Don't understand why that is even an issue for anyone. I do agree, though, that you should only do it for your door, not others.

I have never heard of making KMB inscription on stranger`s doors.