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My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there.


z_darius 14 | 3,969
3 Nov 2010  #91
Are you sure that the American on this forum are the same ones who employ 10 Mexican landscapers?
Marynka11 4 | 675
3 Nov 2010  #92
some of them might mow their grass alone but I'm sure they are enjoying $.99 lb strawberries from California.
Havok 10 | 912
3 Nov 2010  #93
I t will never cease to amaze me how Americans are just fine with illegal immigrants when 10 tiny Mexicans are doing the landscaping, and jet when they get to talk abut it on the forums they call them criminals and want all of them out.

i like my Mexican landscapers, you're painting us all with one wide brush

btw didn't you get your citizenship, after 11 years? aren't you like one of those evil Americans now?
Maybe 12 | 409
3 Nov 2010  #94
But what has Nigeria contributed to the United States?

Oil and lots off it

The Brits can now come to Poland with their capital and make everything expensive.

Rubbish

Believe me the majority of external investment was made in the early nineties by German and French companies. Individual "Brits"don't force up property prices, corporate investors do.
OP michaelmansun 11 | 135
3 Nov 2010  #95
You will never run all the illegals out of the United States. Just pardon them, build repore with Mexico and invite them to become legal. Not all will apply because they have permanent lives already. But many will. They hate living like that. Wondering if they are going to be checked. The ones who sneak in and sneak out wont do that anymore. Many want to go home and cant. Just make it legal. They will develop a life based on that. And they will love us. We sure could use some love. Im in a bar in Mexico and this really really hot girl is talking to me. This girl is phenomenal. I read all comments and will reply in a while. Playing my guitar and chatting up this gorgeous thing. The weather is perfect. It isnt so bad to be me. Not right now. Yes, Im a little native recently, so my opinions are based off that.
Marynka11 4 | 675
3 Nov 2010  #96
"One of those evil Americans"? Not "one of us"?.

And yes, it hurts to admit it, but I'm one of you and do pay taxes so that we can have all kinds of wars all over the world. Quite a deal I made.
Maybe 12 | 409
3 Nov 2010  #97
You will never run all the illegals out of the United States

yeahaw run 'dem boys outta town yeeehaawww

Just pardon them, build repore with Mexico and invite them to become legal.

Could you be anymore patronizing and condescending in one sentence.

Im in a bar in Mexico and this really really hot girl is talking to me.

She knows a sucker when she sees one.

Playing my guitar and chatting up this gorgeous thing. The weather is perfect. It isnt so bad to be me.

I want what you are prescribed.... let me guess... largactyl ?
OP michaelmansun 11 | 135
3 Nov 2010  #98
so that we can have all kinds of wars all over the world

I dont like it anymore than you do. But, you know,the ones who balk are the ones who are glad it is us and not them fighting these wars. One thing. I was in the military. I was in SWA for 6 months. I disagreed with it. We allowed Saddam's enemies to hang him like a common criminal. The judge who convicted him reminds me of Roland Freisler. We should have sent one colonel to Saddam who would say, "Look Saddam. We dont want trouble. Just stop killing your people. Stop torturing folks. Stop writing checks for every US solider killed. Help us with the Iranian problem, promise not to invade Kuwait again, and we can be friends. We will buy your oil, and trade with you. Screw the political fallout. You are the best guy for the job. How about it?" Saddam would have raised a US flag over his finest palace. He would have been our puppet for as long as he lived. And we wouldnt have had this ridiculous useless war.

michaelmansun:
Just pardon them, build repore with Mexico and invite them to become legal.
Could you be anymore patronizing and condescending in one sentence.

You are why diplomacy never works. Because you would never try to use it. You are too arrogant and stupid. They just want a life, no matter how it is handed to them.

michaelmansun:
Im in a bar in Mexico and this really really hot girl is talking to me.
She knows a sucker when she sees one.

Every man is a sucker. It's how babies are made and alimony is paid. The rest just J.O. or go gay. Anyway, my wife is watching.

I don't keep up with psychotherapeutic drugs like you do, I had to look it up. I bet you didn't.

OK. My Corona is geeting a little warm. Excuse me.

the ones who balk

Yes, Harry. This one was for you. You are better than a spell checker. Why should I bother?
Havok 10 | 912
3 Nov 2010  #99
Rubbish

Sorry bub...we don't speak the Queen's English here ;)
@ harry
I was reading a lot of Harry's posts, he's very an@l about spelling and overall grammar rules. Noting pis$es me off more then an@l British spellcheckers.

I was in SWA for 6 months.

Hooyah bro

seriously why can you fix this forum? nothing fing works here, i'm gonna stop donating

The problem is that Polish are up-tided and self-conscious about everything, just like people in Madrid, just came back from there last week, anyway How are you going to do any business in the future? this guy here has a great idea, potentially can make money and all you do is whine, attack, fuss and get weird about it. There is no hope for you people

This forum is like this bizarre semi-polish utopia, I'm telling you man. Great place to bull$hit about weird stuff tho
OP michaelmansun 11 | 135
3 Nov 2010  #100
seriously why can you fix this forum? nothing fing works here, i'm gonna stop donating

You should be able to edit you own posts. I looked at the donations. They are few. They probably have two people running the thing. I dont even see ads. The budget has to be super low.

Dont bother with misspellings. Who the heck cares except Harry and his entourage of nitpickers.

Yeah 6 months in the desert as a Cavalry Scout. That was some experience. Iraqis surrendering in droves. Wearing sandbags for boots. Starving. I never shot a soul, thank goodness. Got the paperwork to prove it, for the doubters. Naw, I got nothing to prove to them. Glad to be out.
Havok 10 | 912
3 Nov 2010  #101
i got 20% from VA, messed up me knee, glad to be out too

I made out ok, i'm in the IT now, banking software
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
3 Nov 2010  #102
this guy here has a great idea, potentially can make money and all you do is whine, attack, fuss and get weird about it. There is no hope for you people

There are several positive comments on this thread but you choose to focus on the negative posts because it proves your point - that we all suck. Well, he asked for honest opinions and I think we delivered. He got the good, the bad and the ugly, after all for a short period that was this forum's motto -> PolishForums - the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
OP michaelmansun 11 | 135
3 Nov 2010  #103
skysoulmate

I have to agree with you. I don't mind the insults, but I wish when someone posts that they would follow the thread, not just read the chapter, go to the end and start ranting about how I should leave Poland, which I did nine years ago, and how I'm just a complainer, as if that is my purpose here. I suppose it is my own fault for the way I set it up,

It supposed to be about first impressions, stuggles with conflicting desires, and resolutions. It is about coming to terms with things which really had nothing to do with me, and remembering that I was an immigrant in a country I hadn't invested a damn thing in, had no family investment in, and, so, had zero right to complain. It was my choice to be there. Poland promised me nothing. That is the point of the book. Adjust or leave, and I made the decision to shut up and stay and do what I had to do. The frustration was that I was encouraged to come to Poland and to stay by a lot of Polish people who said that is was this land of endless opportunities, but it really wasn't, not for everyone, not for immigrants of my status. I learned that, made the decision to stay anyway, and learned to shut the heck up about it after endless attempts at being something other than an English teacher, and I did progress, somewhat, eventually.

I worked in a bank as an FX Dealer, albeit, only for a short while, as they had a fresh graduate in mind as soon as he came out of university, the son of somebody, and I worked in an engineering company, if only for project work, really, and was hired because I could travel freely throughout Europe without applying for a visa. It wasn't and still isn't my country. I was not in a position to make judgements. I always had the option to leave if I thought I had made a mistake in going there. I was not forced to go and not forced to stay. I stayed for my wife, and that was the hardest part. Knowing that if I stayed I was sacrificing my opportunity to have a real career and would turn into a middleaged drunken English teacher someday, bitter and hateful. Knowing that if I left, I would have to leave the girl behind. It is a story about internal conflict and resolution.

That comes out in the book.
s2good2 1 | 72
26 Feb 2011  #104
Why did this Thread just STOP???? I thought it was Great! @ michaelmansun - Was your book ever published? Very interesting! I would be interested in a copy !

Keep on typing !
poland_
26 Feb 2011  #105
middleaged drunken English teacher someday, bitter and hateful.

There are a few of those about,trying to tell their stories to anyone that will listen.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
27 Feb 2011  #106
I make a point of avoiding them - who wants to listen to them?
poland_
27 Feb 2011  #107
Exactly- the past was the past and the future is now!
RonWest 3 | 120
28 Feb 2011  #108
I do my own front yard and gardening...thank you very much.
rybnik 18 | 1,462
28 Feb 2011  #109
waiting to be knighted or beheaded, feeling ridiculous,

I appreciate the feeling you were trying to evoke but this phrase should be deleted-knighted or beheaded not good words for a seduction scene....just sayin

Marynka!
I share your feeling sto procent re: Americans,their "put on a happy face" demeanor and the games we all play here in the States. I also agree with your take on Poles and their "take my mood cause that's the way I'm feeling today". To the newcomer it may be off-putting but it's direct honesty can be reassuring and refreshing. I hope somehow you make your way back home.
valpomike 11 | 197
26 Feb 2012  #110
Merged: A Polish-American of Polish-born grandparents, born in the US, moving to Poland. Questions

If a Polish-American, who was born in the U.S.A., of Polish born grandparents, who has been to Poland, a few times, and loves it, and is unhappy with the way things are going here in the U.S.A. and thinks they may want to move to Poland to live out their life, and is retired and on Social Security, and a small pension, how would this be done?

How would this person go on receiving their S.S. and pension payments made to Poland?
If they wanted to work in Poland, what would they need do?
Would this be a good move?
What are the laws regarding this move?
This person does not speak Polish, but when in Poland, did not find they needed to, would this be a problem?
Please only people who know the true answers, and now in Poland.
This person wants to live in or near Warsaw, since they have some family and friends there now.
How much of a income, would this person need, for only one person? A nice place to live, and other cost, food, and whatever.

Thank you for the help, I know all of you will be.

Mike
plk123 8 | 4,150
26 Feb 2012  #111
Would this be a good move?

Mike, how many times are you going to ask these same questions? As before, there is really no way for you to relocate to PL indefinitely ("to live out their life"). NONE. By law you can't as you aren't Polish and you cannot gain Polish citizenship. You don't have a valid reason for it. And if you again want answers then look through this forum as all of your questions have been discussed ad nauseam and you KNOW this. Asking the same questions over and over again isn't going to help you in any way.

However, you should keep going and visiting Poland during summers and keep spending your money. Poland would appreciate it very much. :)
pawian 157 | 9,053
26 Feb 2012  #112
Would this be a good move?

That would be a bad move.

A Polish saying goes: Old trees shouldn`t be replanted.
scottie1113 7 | 898
26 Feb 2012  #113
:) This old tree got replanted 4 1/2 years ago.
pawian 157 | 9,053
26 Feb 2012  #114
Another saying goes: there is an exception to every rule! :):):):):)
sa11y 5 | 331
26 Feb 2012  #115
Plk, you are wrong. He can always buy a property and/or retire in Poland, as long as he has enough money not to have to work or use social welfare and support himself. Whether it's a good or bad move it's a different story.
bibliophile
26 Feb 2012  #116
I am American and lived in Poland for three years; I am not Polish and have no Polish family or connections.

Many Americans of both Polish and non-Polish extraction of my aquaintance then, lived and work there without knowing or learning Polish. I learned enough what I call emergency Polish once a got there, via 6 one-hour lessons, and later, via conversations (of a sort), with Poles. I was able to get around, go shopping in little shops, street markets and minibars, get my hair done at a non-English speaking salon, etc, and found that Polish was not always necessary in the bigger cities, anyway. But I suggest that even before going there again, you should learn enough to get help, find your way around, and certainly the right words/phrases for please, thank you, can you help me, I am sorry I cannot speak Polish, etc.

However, if I knew I was going to live there for a long time or base my life there, I would have signed up for the Jagiellonian University 4 or 8 week intensive course they offer, to learn the Polish language. It's expensive, but would be worth it.

Summing that up: LEARN THE LANGUAGE. It is a hard one to learn, especially if you are older, but it can be done. Do it. Rosetta Stone can help you learn, for about 200 bucks.

Many Americans and Brits retire in Poland, after buying property there. You can have your social security or pension benefits handled online by your bank or issuing agency and you can withdraw it locally; you don't need to move all your assets there to Poland. The office of citizens' services at a local consulate or embassy allows their office/po box to be used as your overseas address, which is a good idea to do, due to longstanding security issues with the Polish mail service.

You can get an alien registration card fairly easily, which must be updated and reviewed annually, whether working or not---but only as long as you are clearly not a public charge, you and your kids or dependents will not use their schools or health care system, etc. This involves being able to clearly show that either someone else (Polish citizen or a company legally operatng there) promises to put up money as a sort of hedge against that, or can show they are solvent enough to pay your debts in Poland if you do not. You must show you have enough income and assets to ensure all on your own that you will never ask the govt for anything, ever, while in Poland. And you must do so and have all this verified both in the US and in Poland, long before you get your visa and can go live there in the first place.

You will need to pay for lawyers in Poland (at the very least, several notaries), and most of the supporting documents you provide to Polish authorities must be translated officially, by an official and very expensive Polish translator, before submission. You must apply for permanent residency while still living outside Poland, not from inside Poland and that takes about 9-12 months and costs roughly 5000K. There are established companies to help with this for working Americans. Expats on this board migh be able to help you with that info. Our company took care of all that for us.

I would consult a tax attorney and financial advisor, long before you plan to move to Poland. As a US citizen your assets and income earned/located anywhere in the world are subject to US tax if you maintain a US address and voting rights; off-shore Caymans accounts aside (haha), you might be responsible for both American tax on your Polish holdings and property, plus Polish taxes of many kinds on your US ones, likewise, when doing this sort of thing. I know we paid double tax while living and working in Poland---29% US and about 37% Polish, on our income earned while living fulltime and working in Poland--but the US company we worked for ended up paying the Polish tax directly to the Polish government while we were there, so that did not come out of our pocket. Note that just because we paid Polish tax, we did not have the right to send our child to Polish schools, vote there, or use the health care system we paid into.

I know we have US laws regarding non-tax status for retirement benefits under a certain ceiling/amount, and the ability to exempt from tax other sources of income, but all that depends on what it is, how much of it you have, what age you are when you begin withdrawing it, and who is doing the figuring on either side as to what might count for what in which country. Don't just assume your tax status in Poland will be the same as in the US, and therefore that the income you have at your disposal will be the same in Poland as in the US, and therefore that life will be very manageable for you.

Also, while it is true that right now it is cheaper (in general) to live in Poland, prices are rapidly rising. When they convert to the Euro, very soon, you will slowly eat away at any savings you may be thinking you will gain by making this move.

Familarize yourself with the Poland country-specific pages and the pages relating to the Office of Citizen Services at the embassy in Warsaw, and the consulate office in Krakow:

travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_775.html#res

poland.usembassy.gov/

krakow.usconsulate.gov/\\

Whatever you do, do not attempt to live in Poland without first being legal. Do not attempt to work while illegal. While you do have some rights and protections under Polish law, your American civil rights do not exist in Poland. Do not ever forget that you are a guest in someone else's country, and behave accordingly.

Also check UN and WHO health and crime statistics on Poland, available at Nationmaster.com; compare apples to apples by using per capita rates (numbers of incidents per 1000 or 100,000 people). Otherwise, total numbers of incidents skew things, if you look at 310 million people in America versus about 38 million in Poland. you may want to take note of the fact that many of those state are only updated thru 2006; some are from 2001, some are from 2009, etc. Also take note of the fact that for any year, US citizens are generally twice as happy in their home country as are Poles in theirs.

Health care: As an older or retired person that will be important to you if it is not already. Health care is just not great in Poland, no matter what you are able or are willing to pay for, at any level, private or otherwise; not compared to the US standard. Many middle income and wealthy Poles go to the UK or Germany --or even back to the US--for most of their health care. And generally, your health care insurance in the US cannot be used in Poland. If it can, you will be required to pay in cash up front in Poland (plus bribes to techs, nurses and doctors in many cases), and then the US carrier will decide if they will reimburse you for the official costs of your care.

No matter what they say, I can tell you from personal experience that the process does not always go smoothly and most things just aren't covered. Yes, you can buy private health insurance in Poland, as our company did for us in addition, but it is difficult to qualify for if you are a non-Pole/non-Euro citizen doing this on your own, and it is also expensive to carry two types of insurance for long periods of time. Plus, when you submit a claim, they fight with each other over who will pay what, if anything.

Just some thoughts for you in your situation.

I will say that although we had some problems living in Poland, re: crime and health care issues, we loved Krakow and have visited it several times since. We now live in Brussels and I will tell you this: Don't even think about retiring here. Period.
pawian 157 | 9,053
26 Feb 2012  #117
Plk, you are wrong.

Nope, he isn`t.

He can always buy a property and/or retire in Poland, as long as he has enough money not to have to work or use social welfare and support himself.

No, he can`t because:

and is retired and on Social Security, and a small pension,

Whether it's a good or bad move it's a different story.

No, it isn`t. It is all corelated.

Sorry, for being such a negative black sheep.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
26 Feb 2012  #118
@bibliophile

Almost every word you have written is well-meaning but untrue.
valpomike 11 | 197
28 Feb 2012  #119
What is wrong in what was said. Please advise. I need help with this. Where do I get more information on this?

Mike
sa11y 5 | 331
28 Feb 2012  #120
The only thing i found in the net is ebok that you have to pay for
escapeartist.com/e_Books/Poland/relocating_to_poland.html

next best thing is to speak to Polish embassy.


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