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Do colored immigrants in Poland function better than in Western countries?


jon357 74 | 21,941
15 Jun 2023 #31
Even the thread title is dreadful, though I suspect that wasn't the OP's intention.

'Coloured', 'non-white', like 1950s South Africa.

Does it matter what someone's skin colour is?

All humans are human coloured

Quite. We come in all shades and none is 'better' or 'worse'.

Poland has no obligation or need to care for the wants of any non-Polish human being

In which case you have clearly misunderstood the central message of the Gospels.
Bobko 25 | 2,002
15 Jun 2023 #32
We come in all shades and none is 'better' or 'worse'.

Except Russians, who are Orcs.
jon357 74 | 21,941
15 Jun 2023 #33
We're talking about humans here.
mafketis 36 | 10,865
15 Jun 2023 #34
clearly misunderstood the central message of the Gospels.

If you believe in the separation of church and state (as I do) then it's not a religious question.

National governments owe their primary allegiance to present citizens. Then legal residents.... people who just are disatisfied with life in Iraq or Pakistan or Nigeria and want to have a go in Europe without going through the bother of a visa.... should be at the bottom of the heap in terms of priorities....
Bobko 25 | 2,002
15 Jun 2023 #35
We're talking about humans here.

*clicks heels*

GENAU, OBERSTURMBANNFUHRER JON! Russian untermenschen swine must be reminded their place!

*salutes, performs rapid about-turn*
jon357 74 | 21,941
15 Jun 2023 #36
If you believe in the separation of church and state (as I do)

As I do too, to an extent, however cultures are to a large degree shaped by their religious background (and vice versa). To make an issue over someone's skin colour is absolutely against the main Abrahamic religions, both of which were founded by people who had themselves been migrants. Migration has been a part of human behaviour since the first 100,000 Homo Sapiens left Africa all that time ago.

people who just are disatisfied with life

Is it different if an Italian or a Swede or a Welshman moves to Poland?

performs rapid about-turn*

Please do. Now. Tell your orcs to do that right away. Straight back to Muscovy.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
15 Jun 2023 #37
[quote=jon357]which case you have clearly misunderstood the central message of the Gospels.
Which certainly is not your business. I don't want to go into intricate detail of your embrace on some totalitarian ideology, how nasty it is and how very wrong you are, you are also er very much about Christianity, Gospel, basically everything.

In your view a Christian is pushover.
OP Alien 18 | 4,845
15 Jun 2023 #38
Is it different if an Italian or a Swede or a Welshman moves to Poland?

It makes no difference in this case.
jon357 74 | 21,941
15 Jun 2023 #39
no difference

That's my feeling too.

Which certainly is not your business

It certainly is.

Someone's skin colour makes no difference to their character at all.
mafketis 36 | 10,865
15 Jun 2023 #40
make an issue over someone's skin colour

agreed, skin color is less important than cultural values and those are often not compatible around the world....

an Italian or a Swede or a Welshman moves to Poland?

the first two are fellow members of the EU (in which freedom of movement is a big thing), the third is different since the UK is no longer in the EU... and has never had visa free travel with Poland AFAICT

short story: Poland has little/no problem with non-white migrants who work and contribute to the economy, it has little interest in taking in those who don't have much prospect for ever being able to do that...

Africans and Middle Easterners are a known quantity in Europe and the results have not been very encouraging anywhere...
jon357 74 | 21,941
15 Jun 2023 #41
cultural values and those are often not compatible

Those always change with time. And as the world grows smaller, will those not change faster.

Wort( remembering the thread is about people of colour, not specifically people from, say, Japan or Tahiti.

and has never had visa free travel with Poland AFAICT

We did until 2020. All three places however are culturally different and of course there are Italians, Swedes, Selsh people (as there are Poles) of different skin colours.

Poland has little/no problem with non-white migrants who work and contribute to the economy

Can you not say that about any migrant or new Pole, regardless of your 'non-white' thing?
mafketis 36 | 10,865
15 Jun 2023 #42
Can you not say that about any migrant or new Pole

I can but the topic of the thread is specifically about non-whites....

will those not change faster.

cultures change but not fast and not in the same direction.... the case has been (I think convincingly) made that the muslim world (as a whole) has spent the last 50 or so years pulling away from 'western' values for a variety of reasons, some religious, some not... and one result is that urban citizens of those countries are in a fundamentally worse place in terms of citizens being able to adapt to European reality than they were in the 1960s or so....

I don't believe in the unidirectional theory of progress...

We did until 2020.

I meant Schengen type movement since the UK has never belonged...
jon357 74 | 21,941
15 Jun 2023 #43
non-whites....

And, as you know, skin colour makes no real difference to character.

the case has been (I think convincingly) made that the muslim world (as a whole) has spent the last 50

You'd be surprised. I'd be wary of using the phrase 'as a whole', and things are changing in Muslim countries very fast. Europe will certainly become more Muslim, however we seem to admit the most socially conservative who frankly appall people in the countries they've left. I'm in a particular majority Muslim country now (though there's a significant Christian minority as well as secular humanists) and a few things have surprised me here. The rise of the internet, Netflix (that's a now a verb here) and whatever comes next will change everything.

I meant Schengen type movement since the UK has never belonged

We had free movement. You needed to show a passport going in and out of Schengen however movement for citizens of EU member states was an absolute right.
amiga500 4 | 1,544
16 Jun 2023 #44
In the past Ireland tried the pure sovereignty approach

Yes all that Ireland is useful for now is a lapdog of the EC to annoy GB, and a tax-haven for european multinationals. If the land of the bog-trotters was wiped out by a tsunami it would be a net positive for europe, trillions of tax revenue rightfully being paid by companies in the countries they operate it.
OP Alien 18 | 4,845
16 Jun 2023 #45
Coloured', 'non-white', like 1950s South Africa.

The name colored emigrants may not be the happiest one, but it reflects their cultural distinctiveness, and the Polish Prime Minister certainly thought about such emigrants in his speech. Anyway, being "colored" in rainbow colors is very fashionable today and also reflects a certain cultural difference, doesn't it?
GefreiterKania 36 | 1,413
16 Jun 2023 #46
136 thousand immigrants from Islamic countries came to Poland in 2022...

1

... that's a city larger than PÅ‚ock or Koszalin.

I wonder how many of them stayed and how many are already in Germany.
Atch 23 | 4,057
16 Jun 2023 #47
If the land of the bog-trotters was wiped out by a tsunami

Well the Russians did demonstrate on national television how easy it would be to wipe us off the face of the earth with a nuke, so that should please you :) I suggest you visit and enjoy a holiday on our beautiful coastline before it's too late ;)
jon357 74 | 21,941
16 Jun 2023 #48
colored emigrants

'Coloured'?

A loaded term. People of colour is better.
cms neuf 1 | 1,782
16 Jun 2023 #49
That has always seemed absurd to me - even more so now they talk about "footballers or color" or "actors of color" - I don't know whether there are actuaries of color or shop assistants of color.

And of course in many languages there can be no distinction between "colored" and "of color".
jon357 74 | 21,941
16 Jun 2023 #50
color

Colour?

It's about how people who have a characteristic that distinguishes them from the majority population where they live might be described by that population. There wouldn't be an issue if people didn't use colour, culture or nationality related terms to describe people is often demeaning on texts or to exclude them.

In the U.K., the term BAME is sometimes used officially now however that's not really for everyday speech.

Some may call it political correctness, some may call it woke. I call it old fashioned good manners.
johnny reb 47 | 7,057
16 Jun 2023 #51
Some may call it political correctness, some may call it woke. I call it old fashioned good manners.

Spot on joun.
Like I said in an earlier post that the word "colored people" went out about 50 years ago.
I have noticed that it was then and still is quite popular with the older bias Polish people here in the U.S. and everyone in Poland.

Today if you were to call a Black man "colored" you most likely would be picking yourself up off the sidewalk as Black people here in the U.S. find it very offensive.

It would be like me calling you a Limey or me calling Paulina a Polack.
So when I here the words "colored people or people of color" it sounds like it is coming from someone who is very illiterate.
amiga500 4 | 1,544
16 Jun 2023 #52
So when I here the words "colored people or people of color"

woke pc recap. colored person=offensive slur. person of color=respectable term denominating a protected minority.

I do like the term 'spade' as used by clint eastwood in gran turismo
cms neuf 1 | 1,782
16 Jun 2023 #53
I just say Black, Asian etc.
amiga500 4 | 1,544
16 Jun 2023 #54
Not Latinx and Pacifika? Lol what a joke.
Also BAME and POC, sterylising acronyms to generalise and specify a whole group of people that are not 'white'. Isin't that racist and what the eugenicists and nazis did?
Lenka 5 | 3,403
16 Jun 2023 #55
I just say Black, Asian

Same here.
cms neuf 1 | 1,782
16 Jun 2023 #56
I would say Latino, though I don't know when I changed from saying Hispanic, probably 20 years ago.

Don't know about Pacific Islanders - knew a few Hawaiians, but apart from that not had much contact.
johnny reb 47 | 7,057
16 Jun 2023 #57
I do like the term 'spade' as used by clint eastwood in gran turismo

I liked the words 'Spook' and 'Jiggaboo' until I realized what I was saying.
Most of us have come a long ways since those days of offending a race.
On the flip side, I find Afro-American just as offensive unless they are an ex-pat.
If they were born in said country then they are a Pole or an American and not an Afro-Pole or an Afro- American.
amiga500 4 | 1,544
16 Jun 2023 #58
Don't know about Pacific Islanders

Melanesia a nice area to sail a yacht around, I imagine.

Most of us have come a long ways since those days of offending a race.

See that's the thing, I take the term 'Polak' as a compliment, it's about transforming the language, the social construct of the word into something positive. Like what has happened with the term 'queer', that used to be a slur, now it's a respectable term. 'nig*a is that as well but only if used between blacks with exceptions. Same with 'Pom' it can be used as a term of affection by citizens of other commonwealth countries.

If they were born in said country

What if they have two passports?
johnny reb 47 | 7,057
16 Jun 2023 #59
I take the term 'Polak' as a compliment, i

Most Polish people and people of Polish ancestry in the U.S. feel the same way.
I know I am not offended by someone calling me a Polack and take it as a compliment.
Now "dumb" Polack" is a different can of worms.

What if they have two passports?

Whichever country they were born in.
Bobko 25 | 2,002
16 Jun 2023 #60
136 thousand immigrants from Islamic countries

Haha. Most of your Muslims are Russian-speaking Muslims.


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