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Poland, Western Europe and the USA - What if Ukraine disappears from the map?


Crow 160 | 10,979
2 Jul 2022 #1
Considering development in Ukraine, everything seams possible. So what would western Europe and the USA if Ukraine lose war and disappears from the map? In my opinion they will face deep crisis. Not just material but also moral. Would seek their purpose. All that in environment of Multi-Polar world, where they won`t dominate but exist among many other civilizations, equal at best. As for Poland, I expect consolidation of internal and foreign politics. Simple, pressure on Poland from the western Europe will cease and Poland would turn to itself. Finally, Poland isn`t just European country but also Slavic country. Country would seek balance. In that, Visegrad would become more important for Poland.
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #2
It depends of EU ultimate fate. If Ukraine will disappear as a background to start of EU crash, it will pass almost unnoticed.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,634
2 Jul 2022 #3
. If Ukraine will disappear

And that that is your fudamental problem.
Ukraine will never disappear.
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #4
No doubt, Ukraine will continue to exist, in one form or another. But not in current borders and not with current regime. Chances that Malorossian federal district within Russia with wide autonomy will be form of Ukraine existence.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,163
2 Jul 2022 #5
....what happens when Ukrainians keep rebelling against that? Don't stop fighting for an independent country....one way or another....

You know how that goes....unending bad pictures for Russia in the global news.....a never ending resource draining, hurting zit on russian ass.....what then?
Novichok 2 | 7,562
2 Jul 2022 #6
Ukraine will continue to exist, in one form or another.

...but without Z.

One day, historians will count what Ukraine has lost, see what life is like in Crimea, and ask how Zholes could have been so stupid.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,634
2 Jul 2022 #7
.what happens when Ukrainians keep rebelling against that?

A good question

.One day, historians will count what Ukraine has lost, see what life is like in Crimea, and ask how Zholes could have been so stupid.

No.

That.wont happen.
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #8
....what happens when Ukrainians keep rebelling against that?

Order some extra popcorn and take your seat...

A short overview of previous episode is here:
t.me/Sladkov_plus/5752
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,801
2 Jul 2022 #9
You can feel whatever you want but don't call that snake "defensive". No Article 5

As a matter of fact it was the USA that bombed them. We say NATO we think USA and we think USA and say NATO, there is no NATO without the USA.
Novichok 2 | 7,562
2 Jul 2022 #10
As a matter of fact it was the USA that bombed them.

...as NATO. Same thing.
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #11
real answer please!

Real answer - most of those who dreamt about rebelling will be missing in that episode. See short overview of previous episode:
t.me/Sladkov_plus/5752

FSB will take care about remaining saboteurs, and there will be no chances for amnesty this time.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,163
2 Jul 2022 #12
.....you seem to believe that Ukraine can forcefully pacified....well, time will tell!
Miloslaw 14 | 4,634
2 Jul 2022 #13
FSB will take care about remaining saboteurs, and there will be no chances for amnesty this time.

So, what you are saying is that Russians are scared and will not rebel.
Which is why their history has been so rubbish.
Weak Russians just putting up with dictatorships....pathetic!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,163
2 Jul 2022 #14
.....sometimes I just fear many of them don't think that far....never try to put themselves into their enemy's shoes.

The Russians have always prided themselves for not giving up to the german forces in WWII, for not giving in....keep on fighting with all means available! The civilian resistance has become legendary.

But now they believe other people, Ukrainians, will just give up....lay down belly up and become brave subjects to a hostile, foreign, brutal invader....WHY????

No thought about the "after", the much more difficult time when guns and tanks are not working anymore....they might win the war but definitely lose the peace....and that has never ended well for any occupier!
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #15
But now they believe other people, Ukrainians, will just give up....

There is subtle difference - that was fight with foreign invaders, but Russians and Ukrainians is de-facto one nation, torn apart less than half century ago. Intermixed and intermarried, hard to find Russian who doesn't have relatives in current Ukraine, and vice versa.

So, once external provocators will be exterminated, we will agree on a conditions of coexistence.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,801
2 Jul 2022 #16
But now they believe other people, Ukrainians, will just give up

No they belive they will kill, torture, brainwash and bribe and some more on the top of deporting people to gulags or Siberia untill they won't face any serius threat.

They have been doing it for centures and to prefection as Soviet Union, they is their forte. So they feel confident.
Their population wouldn't care as they are primtive, amoral people with no sense in overhelming majority. Others just belive they can't do nothing about it anyways.
jon357 71 | 21,002
2 Jul 2022 #17
but Russians and Ukrainians is de-facto one nation

No it isn't.

Hence Ukraine bravely (and successfully) resisting r*ssia's illegal and unprovoked invasion.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,163
2 Jul 2022 #18
but Russians and Ukrainians is de-facto one nation, torn apart less than half century ago.

BOTH populations have to see it the same way!
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #19
Look at Crimea. Without 8 years of fiery brainwashing, integration was smooth and peaceful.
The rest of Ukraine will be much harder... But... On the place of Poles and other NATO members, I would fear not Russian troops. I would fear former Ukrainian army troops, like hell.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,163
2 Jul 2022 #20
Would you be okay with getting Crimea/Donbas (the russian pockets) in peace negotiations? And leaving the rest of Ukraine (the majority) alone for good?
Miloslaw 14 | 4,634
2 Jul 2022 #21
Russians and Ukrainians is de-facto one nation

Balls!
They are clearly not one nation any more than England and Scotland are one nation.
If they chose to stick together that is fine.
But if they chose to seperate that should be fine too.

Russians have no.say in this matter.

Stop.being so.arrogant!
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #22
But if they chose to seperate that should be fine too.

Will it still be fine if right after separation Chinese or Russian military bases will appear there within minutes of missile flight time from London?
OP Crow 160 | 10,979
2 Jul 2022 #23
unending bad pictures for Russia in the global news.....a never ending resource draining,

Exactly because of this Ukraine as it is will cease to exist. It functioned that way in Ukraine prior to Russian intervention and it didn`t work. Never will work for Russia.

Take Chechnya. Changes came.

Malorossian federal district within Russia with wide autonomy will be form of Ukraine existence.

Most probably.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,634
2 Jul 2022 #24
Will it still be fine if right after separation Chinese or Russian military bases will appear there within minutes of missile flight time from London?

Bring it on big boy!
We in the West are.getting a.bit fed.up with your empty threats.

And are not scared.

We can destroy Russia.

Once and for.all.
Paulina 13 | 3,762
2 Jul 2022 #25
WHY????

I think Cojestdocholery is right - Putin & Co probably are or were convinced that they can destroy and terrorise Ukraine to such an extent that Ukrainians will give up, like the Chechens did. Russians have a lot of experience with terrorising their own people and others. It seems they have it in their blood and maybe they're thinking it will work this time too. I think they're wrong though. Ukraine isn't Chechnya.

There are also those like Velund who seem to be completely deluded and don't know and don't understand the Ukrainian nation:

Russians and Ukrainians is de-facto one nation

So, once external provocators will be exterminated, we will agree on a conditions of coexistence.

As we can see such delusions and lack of understanding of another nation are a very dangerous thing, because they have just led to a full scale war.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,163
2 Jul 2022 #26
Take Chechnya. Changes came.

.....to such an extent that Ukrainians will give up, like the Chechens did.

My personal analysis: Nobody in the West gave a flying f*uck about Chechnya (as unfair as it is), the situation couldn't be more different in Ukraine.

If Putin thought he could handle Ukraine as he did Chechnya, well...that was a horrific miscalculation.

Just look at NATO.....never been bigger....never been more unified.....never having more money and modern weapons....never been more popular in the populations.....and soon Russia is really encircled, with NATO at all fronts.

The from the Kremlin sold reason for this war that NATO came "to near" has developed into a joke!
Velund 1 | 1,151
2 Jul 2022 #27
Would you be okay with getting Crimea/Donbas (the russian pockets) in peace negotiations?

I doubt it. First of all, it is necessary to control the entire system of canals Dnepr-Donbass, the water supply of the entire region after the water blockade of Crimea will no longer remain without complete control. But most importantly, the main goals of denazification (de-banderization) and demilitarization cannot be achieved without the complete elimination of the current regime. Will you discuss with Zelensky the method of his execution? ;)
Miloslaw 14 | 4,634
2 Jul 2022 #28
delusions

This is the main problem with Russians.
They have an extreme lack of understanding of the world outside of Russia and in some cases they are completely delusional.

If they really think that they can call the west's bluff from a.position of weakness then they are.totally nuts!

We don't want it, but we 're ready for WW3.

And we will win.
OP Crow 160 | 10,979
2 Jul 2022 #29
soon Russia is really encircled.

Exactly. Hence action in Ukraine. Among other reasons.

Just look at NATO.....never been bigger....never been more unified.....soon never be more ready to go to war

NATO is already in war with Russia in Ukraine. We all know that.

So, its not the news. News is that NATO as derelict organization and NATO countries facing war with rest of the world.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,163
2 Jul 2022 #30
the main goals of denazification (de-banderization) and demilitarization

....that sounds so not like a re-unification of a brother-people, as you stated before!

We know how that looks like.....the fall of the Berlin Wall 1989.....or even Hitler riding into Vienna for the Anschlu├č.....just compare the pictures then with Ukraine now and you see the differences!

Exactly. Hence action in Ukraine.

Well Crowie....without that invasion in Ukraine NATO would be still lying low....fighting for every Penny...asking itself what that all is about....and not even think about any enlargement in the Baltics, no encirclement of Russia at all....

Get the order of events right!


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