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Why Polish people should be proud of being Polish?


MediaWatch
11 Feb 2011 #211
I don't know any Polish Americans that define themselves or their "Polishness" by talking about pierogies, kielbasas or pronouncing their names. That's an infantile interpretation of yours. And what is with this strange obsession of yours about the Kacyznskis? Are you that offended by what they said about your Russia? One of them is dead, so doesn't that make you happy? Also most Polish Americans couldn't care a less about the Kaczynskis. Most of what I have heard about the Kaczynski's is what guys on the Polishforum like you say about them.

As for people like you who claim to live in Poland, sure you may go through the motions of paying taxes and "acting like citizens" of Poland, but then again every Enemy Within a country does this. Polish-Hater Jan Gross did that.

We have an Enemy Within America that also goes through the motion of "being American" and then they use that "status" to then trash America.
convex
11 Feb 2011 #212
We have an Enemy Within America that also goes through the motion of "being American" and then they use that "status" to then trash America.

oh, who might that be?
Mr Grunwald
11 Feb 2011 #213
abolished in (eatern) Poland by the Russians in order to weaken the Polish szlachta.

and some Poles wanted to free their peasents as well, that's why the Russians had some support from Polish aristocrats
after the constitution EVERYONE was equal to the law. Pitty it lasted so short :/

but I see what you mean. Up to a point.

Thanks, just trying to explain why Poles are Poles and it isn't sucked out of a finger ;) (Polish expression)

oh, who might that be?

You don't wanna know
Harry
11 Feb 2011 #214
Polish-Hater Jan Gross did that.

Please don't abuse hyphens like that.
jonni
11 Feb 2011 #215
after the constitution EVERYONE was equal under the law. Pity it lasted so short

A huge pity. Have you read Adam Zamojski's book on Stanislaw August? I liked it and his conclusions about what should/could have happened are food for thought.

Thanks, just trying to explain why Poles are Poles and it isn't sucked out of a finger ;) (Polish expression)

Thank you. One of the better posts I've seen on that topic.

oh, who might that be?

They are called the Tea Party.
delphiandomine
11 Feb 2011 #216
but rather because the Poles had religious freedom in their exceptional commonwealth, and not because Poland was somehow culturally "pure" but because of the Poles' eclecticism in which, to give a couple examples, they freely adopted aspects of their dress from Asiatics and aspects of their architecture from Italians.

It is certainly a huge shame that the II RP was such a backwards state compared to the first one.

One of them is dead, so doesn't that make you happy?

No. Creating martyrs is the last thing that anyone wanted.

Also most Polish Americans couldn't care a less about the Kaczynskis.

Cheers, MediaWatch. You've just proven that Polish Americans couldn't care less about Poland - after all, Lech Kaczynski *was* the President of Poland, Jaroslaw Kaczynski *was* the Prime Minister and he's still the leader of the Opposition. If they couldn't care less about them, then you've just proved my point - that they're not Polish.

I actually have my doubts that most Polish Americans could name the President, Prime Minister and Marshal of the Sejm.

As for people like you who claim to live in Poland, sure you may go through the motions of paying taxes and "acting like citizens" of Poland, but then again every Enemy Within a country does this. Polish-Hater Jan Gross did that.

Have you actually read any of the books by Gross? Naaah. Didn't think so.

Incidentally, I've never known any "haters" of a country to pay taxes there and to stay there. I can understand why it might happen in America, but in the EU? We don't like one country, we can freely move to another 32 or so. Certainly, if we didn't like Poland, we could easily move elsewhere.

MediaWatch, tell me, do you like weed?
Des Essientes
11 Feb 2011 #217
That's becaouse Ukraine (land&territory) was inherited by Poland as Kiev Rus had no heir left, while Lithuania allied herself with Poland and later made an union.

The Ukraine was actually conquered by the pagan Lithuanians and it was after Poland's alliance with the converted Lithuanians that this territory came under Polish sway.
Polonius3
11 Feb 2011 #218
Rather than attacking Polish Americans who are proud of their Polish heritage, why don't the citizens of Tusklandia, the subjects of Tricky Don & Count Bron, explain why they like living in a 'kultura odtwórcza' (copycat, imitative, re-creative culture) rather than a 'twórcza' (creative) one.

No matter what anyone thinks of rap-crap, at least the Afros have made a contribution that even some hip-hopping Japs fancy. The Mexicans have provided tacos, mariachi bands and salsa (both the sauce and the dance), and even postage-stamp-sized Ireland is known world-wide for its Irish pubs, Guinness (stout and Book o' Records), St Paddy's Day stuff and Riverdance. Although they are no longer Swedish owned, the Volvo and Saab marques are still associated with Swedish engineering. We could add burgers, pizza KFC and kebabs, skateboarding, bungee jumping, breakdancing, reality shows, etc., etc.-- all imports from more creative cultures.

Where is Tuskandia in that global picture? I also like Lem (esp. his satire on PRL cloaked in sci-fi metaphors to deceive the PRL censors), but he, together with Chopin, Gombrowicz, Piłsudski, Mickiewicz, Sobieski and JP II are now history. Now there is only Wałęsa, Wajda and Penderecki, but how widely are they known world-wide? And what are you Old Country Poles doing to change that?
MediaWatch
11 Feb 2011 #219
Cheers, MediaWatch. I actually have my doubts that most Polish Americans could name the President, Prime Minister and Marshal of the Sejm.

Don't twist what I have said.

No I haven't proven anything like you say, except in the infantile minds of people like you who's desperate to play some childish game of "Gotcha" with people he disagrees with.

Polish Americans are aware of the Kaczynski's but naturally since they are Americans first, the Kaczynski's and other Polish politicians are not the first thing on their minds. Is that something too hard for you to understand?

Also to people like you, we Polish Americans are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If Polish Americans say they like the Kaczynskis, you bash Polish Americans for their choice of supporting the Kaczynski's (the ones that do support them). If Polish Americans say they don't think about the Kaczynski's all the time, you bash them again "for not knowing enough about Poland" and "therefore not being Polish".

Do you see how silly you sound?

So tell me are Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Jewish Americans not Irish, Italian and Jewish respectively? Do they have no right to talk about their ethnic backgrounds and countries of ancestral origin?

Also on this Polishforum we also talk about (have topics of) the Polish diaspora in the US, Europe, Canada, etc. Are you aware of that? Don't you think people inside Poland are curious to know what their Polish relatives abroad are doing?

MediaWatch, tell me, do you like weed?

That's cute delph. LOL

Have you actually read any of the books by Gross?

Yes I have. In fact I have quoted from one of them

Incidentally, I've never known any "haters" of a country to pay taxes there and to stay there. I can understand why it might happen in America, but in the EU? We don't like one country, we can freely move to another 32 or so. Certainly, if we didn't like Poland, we could easily move elsewhere.

Why yes if you're part of the Enemy Within a country, you're going to let everyone know what your true intentions are LOL
JaneDoe
11 Feb 2011 #220
Where is Tuskandia in that global picture?

That's a statement of an arrogant American. Not a Pole.
Harry
11 Feb 2011 #221
Rather than attacking Polish Americans who are proud of their Polish heritage

So, when were you last, if ever, in Poland?
jonni
11 Feb 2011 #222
I think we know the answer to that already. His silence on this matter speaks volumes.
alexw68
11 Feb 2011 #223
And what are you Old Country Poles doing to change that?

Ignoring berks like you for a start.

Music scene: Leszek Możdżer, Pink Freud, Kroke, Kapela ze Wsi Warszawa - all with a big European following. To say nothing of classical musicians too numerous to mention.

The literature's an acquired taste but there are a good number of up-and-coming talents who with the right translator will get useful exposure outside of Poland.

Hundreds upon hundreds of world-class computer programmers (I work with a few of them - really top class and no, they get paid the same as everyone else) - oh, yeah, I forgot, you've got a hang-up about them pesky computer thingies, don't you, keyboard jockey?

So yes, a nation of consensus-following copycats. Says the cut-and-paste king of leaden, 1930s style 'polemic'. Have you, P3, ever had an original thought? No, don't bother attempting to answer that. The answer will be far more damaging to your reputation than your silence could ever be.
puella
11 Feb 2011 #224
Few loose thoughts, which popped my mind while reading this, are:

1. Oh tell us why in Kaczyland few years ago we old continental Poles were uncreative as well??
2. The last traditional Polish thing which hit the world was footbag 7 years ago ;)
3. Could you name few things which Poland in e.g. 1930s "gave" to the world?
4. You've probably another American who thinks that our grandmathers were wearing folk dresses, lol.
5. Yep, probably Poles are inferior to other cultures... Let's plead to ban all bungee, skateboarding, breakdancing, kebabs and KFCs and let's all eat pierogis and play palant (Polish cricket) instead ;DDD

Polonius tell us how would you imagine perfect Poland (I mean way of living). What people should do in their free time in your perfect Poland? Pray?? ;D

Although they are no longer Swedish owned, the Volvo and Saab marques are still associated with Swedish engineering.

We would have our own famous products (not necessarily cars) but the rapid privatisation and racy inflation of the break of 80/90s killed whole Polish industry.
grubas
11 Feb 2011 #225
We would have our own famous products (not necessarily cars) but the rapid privatisation and racy inflation of the break of 80/90s killed whole Polish industry.

Yea, "normalnie pech",right?Polish always have a 100 excuses for every occasion.
puella
11 Feb 2011 #226
Polish always have a 100 excuses for every occasion.

No that's actually true. I know some examples from 1st hand source.

Yea, "normalnie pech",right?

Nie to nie normalnie pech. Ja znam osoby, które pracowały w dużych polskich przedsiębiorstwach i wiem jak te przedsiębiorstwa zbankrutowały.
delphiandomine
11 Feb 2011 #227
Don't twist what I have said.

You said, and I quote -

Also most Polish Americans couldn't care a less about the Kaczynskis.

The fact that "most Polish Americans couldn't care less about the Kaczynskis" as said by you proves my point - that most of them couldn't give a damn about Poland except when it suits them.

Polish Americans are aware of the Kaczynski's but naturally since they are Americans first, the Kaczynski's and other Polish politicians are not the first thing on their minds. Is that something too hard for you to understand?

Well done, you've just made it clear that they are American, not Polish. Perhaps they'll stop associating with this country and most of all, stop voting.

We bash people for supporting the Kaczynskis regardless of what nationality they are. It goes with the territory of not being an imbecile.

So tell me are Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Jewish Americans not Irish, Italian and Jewish respectively?

They're all as bad as each other, except the Jews. Last time I checked, Jews weren't a nationality.

Also on this Polishforum we also talk about (have topics of) the Polish diaspora in the US, Europe, Canada, etc.

Most Poles that I've met usually make fun of Poles abroad. I know quite a few Poles who are completely ashamed by the way that many of them act abroad. Bit like the Brits, really.

Why yes if you're part of the Enemy Within a country, you're going to let everyone know what your true intentions are LOL

Yes, I'm so evil, I pay income tax and social taxes, I donate some money to charities here and I also pretty much exclusively buy from Polish suppliers. Tell me, MediaWatch - how much do you contribute to the Polish economy?

We would have our own famous products (not necessarily cars) but the rapid privatisation and racy inflation of the break of 80/90s killed whole Polish industry.

Some Polish businesses are doing really well for themselves in Eastern Europe - PZU is well on its way to becoming a regional power, Orlen is expansionist, in fact - the real problem is that the government retains a decent share of many big Polish companies, which is stopping them from expanding due to the Governments of the day putting "their men" into the companies. Polkomtel is probably a great example of this.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised to see a Polish company make a huge breakthrough in biotechnology as well.
Polonius3
11 Feb 2011 #228
Are you guys proud of Doda and Redhead Wiśniewski? Or the fact there are no longer hardly any Polish-owned breweries left in Poland? Or shifty-eyed grandziarz (that's what my Polish relatives call him) Tusk who has presided over the funeral of Poland's ship-building industry? Where are the motorways he had promsied to build for Euro 2012? Now he says the stadiums will be ready on time, but not the motorways.
JaneDoe
11 Feb 2011 #229
Are you guys proud of Doda and Redhead Wiśniewski?

It's been created by Poles. Loved by Poles. Sold by Poles. Isn't it?

Tusk who has presided over the funeral of Poland's ship-building industry?

You're naive if you believe in all of their promises (no matter Left or Right). Reality check, P3.
jonni
11 Feb 2011 #230
Are you guys proud of Doda and Redhead Wiśniewski?

Personally, I can't abide either - but there are certainly plenty of Poles who are indeed proud of MW. His rags to riches story has impressed many.

Tusk who has presided over the funeral of Poland's ship-building industry?

Actually it was the previous administration who did a lot of that.

but not the motorways.

I don't remember them building many of those either. Except for trying to put one through the Rospuda valley, one of Poland's finest unspoilt natural areas.

So tell us, since we all keep asking - when did you last live in Poland, and for how long? The more you avoid the question, the more people will ask. Next you'll be telling us you were born in Hawaii but lost the birth certificate.
puella
11 Feb 2011 #231
Are you guys proud of Doda and Redhead Wiśniewski?

No one listen to that crap... but wait a minute! Isn't Ich Troje a strictly Polish folklore?! I thought it fits the best the Polish culture: Ich Troje, Klan, Disco Polo, Kiełbasa... Haven't you meant that? It's the Polish culture we are trying to oppose by listening to nice "western" dubstep on czwórka radio.

Where are the motorways he had promsied to build for Euro 2012? Now he says the stadiums will be ready on time, but not the motorways.

Haha, it seems you are the only one who believed it!

It's been created by Poles. Loved by Poles. Sold by Poles. Isn't it?

No, certaonly not loved.
delphiandomine
11 Feb 2011 #232
Or the fact there are no longer hardly any Polish-owned breweries left in Poland?

There are plenty of Polish owned breweries. Perhaps you're talking about the mainstream crap.

Or shifty-eyed grandziarz (that's what my Polish relatives call him) Tusk who has presided over the funeral of Poland's ship-building industry?

Solidarity presided over that, not anyone else. Their inability to reform when given a debt-free slate was incredible.

Where are the motorways he had promsied to build for Euro 2012? Now he says the stadiums will be ready on time, but not the motorways.

Every host city will be connected by motorway. The A1 isn't far off completion, the A2 likewise, the A4 is finished.

What more do you need?

So tell us, since we all keep asking - when did you last live in Poland, and for how long?

Tick...tock...
noreenb
11 Feb 2011 #233
Just a few words... Why Australian, American, others can go abroad and stay there for years without hearing from countrymen: "You are emigrant, it is so wrong!" It's just so normal for them: they visit other countries, have plenty adventures, new experiences and plenty problems and at least they know that they live instead of having a style of life some people who stay here and don't see opportunities the world gives us.

Some of us just have to go abroad because they have not many (saying gently) chances to be someone and achive something in their country. Are they proud that they are Polish? For sure, yeah, some are, some aren't.

:)
I actually envy people who live and work abroad. There are many reasons for it. I am not so courageous yet. Maybe one day I will go to Scotland, Ireland, or somewhere else, to the dream land were are plenty astonishing and incredible castles, clean air and friendly people, I don't know. But for sure it won't change being proud of my nationality, national heroes, language, artists, history and wonderful cities.
sascha
11 Feb 2011 #234
Why Australian, American, others can go abroad and stay there for years without hearing from countrymen

Their society is based on different values. Slavic people like to stick in contact. They like company and are connected to their roots. Individualizm is not a goal for them, until recent political changes and the influence from the West.
noreenb
11 Feb 2011 #235
It's a good trait. They just become friends and don't judge each other. They are kind and funny. just love company of others and have their celebrations, parties and twitter meet-ups. I'd rather say that many Polish stick to their families and close friends. They don't like to trust strangers. It's a bit sad.
sascha
12 Feb 2011 #236
They don't like to trust strangers

Met some during last summer vacation. Seemed to me quite open to now contacts.

They are kind and funny. just love company of others and have their celebrations

Slavic people are very sociable. They like others around and if there is a celebration even better.

many Polish stick to their families and close friends

They need like everybody a foundation, just that for slavic people the family/friends, close friends still have a higher value than in the individualistic society in the West.
noreenb
12 Feb 2011 #237
First contacts are usually great, but, after it? I have a feeling that people stay with each other in good relations just during some time. Finding good friends is sometimes hard, when the great summer time finishes.
enkidu
12 Feb 2011 #238
On the next day after greatest medieval battle of Grunwald (that we won), half of the Polish Knights were nowhere to be found. The rest were drunk, celebrating, fighting each-other and discussing with Lithuanians who is the REAL man now. There was no hope to continue the campaign.

Most wars we entered, we lost... graciously
Any attempt to establish any kind of order on the Polish land is doomed to fail.
We lost our country for long 123 years. Not conquered. Our country was taken apart like a dead boar.
Almost all (except one - but most Poles don't want to remember this) our national uprisings failed dramatically.
Our national heroes are the masters of lost causes and lost battles. Take ie Kościuszko or Poniatowski or even Batory. It seems that what it takes to be Polish national hero is to die in an unnecessary and highly romantic way. The only hero who actually achieved something (Piłsudski) has died as a bitter old man cursing Poland and our love for chaos.

Sometimes I think that the only reason that the Poland exist is that no one want to do anything with us. Like a quarantine zone for madness, chaos and drama.

Said that - I am proud of being Polish. Why?
You wouldn't understand.
It's a Polish thing. ;-)
Ironside
12 Feb 2011 #239
The rest were drunk,

Stop drinking yourself!

Could you name few things which Poland in e.g. 1930s "gave" to the world?

Could you ?

Oh tell us why in Kaczyland

OH tell me why you are being so stupid?
delphiandomine
12 Feb 2011 #240
Could you ?

I would say 1930's Poland did a great job of thoroughly pissing off all its neighbours.


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