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Why Polish people should be proud of being Polish?


Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,676
12 Feb 2011 #301
Well...no cats and dogs for me....I would end up cuddling them instead of eating them!

BTW, anyone interested might do well to check out the number of patents by country. It will be eye-opening.

You mean this one?

nationmaster.com/graph/eco_pat_gra-economy-patents-granted

Btw...half of the US-patents are german anyhow... :)

*runs*
sascha 1 | 826
12 Feb 2011 #302
Btw...half of the US-patents are german anyhow... :)

17% of american population has german ancestors. ;-)
Biggest enclave outside Germany.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
12 Feb 2011 #303
I for one as dismayed that such a relatively big country as Poland trails behind Latvia, Romania, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Mongolia and Denmark in terms of inventions. I should think that would worry and distress any true Polish patriot whether he lives in Skierniewice or San Antonio, TX... Unless he hasn't got any time to give it muhc thouhgt because he's off the the sushi bar!?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,676
12 Feb 2011 #305
I for one as dismayed that such a relatively big country as Poland trails behind Latvia, Romania, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Mongolia and Denmark in terms of inventions.

According to this statistic Mongolia is better than even Germany....

nationmaster.com/graph/eco_pat_gra_percap-economy-patents-granted-per-capita

So... ;)
enkidu 7 | 623
12 Feb 2011 #306
Democracy. In XVI century. That's something.

Welcome on my ignored bastard's list.
rabidbavib - | 20
12 Feb 2011 #307
whats the connection between Patents, production and pride. (apart from them begining with p) Maybee americans can only equate pride by how big, expensive, inventive or productive something is. under negative scrutiny nothing is ever going to be good enough.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Feb 2011 #308
What in your view then is an indciator of a country's greatness, excellence, promienence and international renown? The number of McDonald's in a country, the numebr of Polish hiphop impersonators or maybe the number of VW Caddies mercenary Polish workers can assemble a day in Poznań?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,676
13 Feb 2011 #309
I don't believe contemporaries can really have a good say about any country's greatness or excellence...they don't have the whole picture!

That to determine is a matter of historians.
They write about a countries "golden ages" or low points from a view several hundred years on...having a much bigger, much broader, complete viewpoint.

Only they know which of the contemporary artists, inventors, politicians etc. really will make a lasting impression.

We ourselves can't do that! It's like staying to near to a huge puzzle..you only see some pieces at once...
But you need to stay back to get the whole image.

But still you can compare some broad cornerstones yourself...is Poland living free and in peace? Is it's economy, it's society developing? Is it's clout in Europe growing peacefully?

How does that compare to it's past? Worse? Better?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
13 Feb 2011 #310
free good education. including exellent free unis.
internationally accepted as a hard working well educated workforce.

Anyone who works with Poles can tell you that "hard working" doesn't exist in Poland. In fact, quite the opposite - it's only with their work ethic abroad that has got them that reputation. I'm sure Wroclaw Boy can tell you a horror story or two about lazy Polish workers!

As for the education - it's not good. There are some cases where the education is approaching "good" on a European level, but on the whole, the system is dire. It churns out lots of people with "papers", many of whom are totally incapable of doing the job - there's a reason why most good Polish companies will train from within rather than rely on external training providers.

Was there really no way of saving it?

Finally, you're talking some sense.

Solidarity was more or less founded on the principle that people wanted what the elite had - and they wanted to have what the Western elite had, too. That meant high wages, access to products, good housing, good health care, etc etc. It was more or less a movement based on a desire for Swedish style social democracy.

But when they got self determination, it became dreadfully clear that Solidarność was woefully lacking in talent. Ciegelski is a great example of this - they *could* still thrive if they sell off 75% of the Debiec site and concentrated on one or two core lines. But that would mean many people getting sacked - people who are paid to sit in offices and pretend that they're working for Solidarność. I've seen with my own eyes inside one of their production halls - 20 offices. 6 of those offices were being used for Solidarność activities. How can anyone ever hope to succeed when the workers have such an iron grip on the company?

Incidentally, Polonius - Solaris can be counted as a genuine Polish success story. Autosan are still doing reasonably well for themselves as well.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,676
13 Feb 2011 #311
As for the education - it's not good. There are some cases where the education is approaching "good" on a European level, but on the whole, the system is dire

Well...I'm not sure about that one...

poland.pl/news/article,Polish_students_skilled_above_European_average,id,454279.htm

According to latest PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) research, students attending Polish schools have better learning results than their European peers.

rybnik 18 | 1,461
13 Feb 2011 #312
Could be amusing to attend such a festival and find out just how many of them know how to pronounce their last name properly. Anyone "proud" of being Polish should be able to pronounce their name properly!

You'd be surprised! Most of them know(babcia told them).
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Feb 2011 #313
Of course a fuller view of things is provided only by hindsight, ie an historical perspective of what has already transpired. (I purposely said 'fuller' not 'full', because no-one is privy to all of history, many of whose facets will always remain a mystery.) But even at present one can either go through life horse-blinkered not seeing beyond ther end of one's nose or at least try to get a broader overview, in other words stand back or rise above and take in as broad a spectrum as possible. That is what sets thinking people apart from mindless 'born to buy' consumers.

In the sense that Europe (without the exception of former Yugoslav lands) has been war-free since 1945, that can be said to be a good period for Poland. The economy has progressed in terms of personal wealth and GDP growth, however Polish ownership has regressed. A patriot is never satisfied to see his country rest on its laurels and always hopes for it to attain excellence and prominence.

We often hear about 'quality of life', but what about 'quality of people', in this case 'quality of Poles'? How does today's Pole shape up not only in terms of material wealth and adcademic degrees but also of ethical and spriitual values, civic virtues (is it only 'me, myself and mine' or the nation and society as a whole?), honesty, selflessness, decency, sense of fairplay and other such imponderables?
Harry
13 Feb 2011 #314
Of course a fuller view of things is provided only by hindsight,

A fuller view of a country is generally gained by going there and spending some time there; the more time spent, the fuller one's view can be. Listening to somebody banging on about a country which they have never even visited is like taking swimming lessons from a person who has never gone into water.

How does today's Pole shape up

Why not come here and meet some so you can find out for yourself?
rabidbavib - | 20
13 Feb 2011 #315
What in your view then is an indciator of a country's greatness, excellence, promienence and international renown?

I still dont see how having the most of.. or being the most powerfull country etc. determines pride. Is a man who against all adversity manages to do something, no matter how small under the eyes of scrutiny, not allowed to feel pride.
George8600 10 | 636
13 Feb 2011 #316
Anyone who works with Poles can tell you that "hard working" doesn't exist in Poland. In fact, quite the opposite - it's only with their work ethic abroad that has got them that reputation.

lol I think the same applies to Greeks. Everyone I meet here who hasn't been there either thinks they're really hard working and intelligent, or that this intelligence stems from ancient times and that the people are very artsy and philosophical due to that. @_@ lol it's rather quite the opposite.

I agree with delphianomine though, I haven't really noticed any trend of hard working in Poland and the various regions I've been to. This probably has a lot to do with new-comer psychology and the amusement/fear of being in a complete foreign place. I know I don't act the same as I do home when in other countries and keep well-manners since you might end up relying on those who judge you. It's not in a Poles' or anyone else's interest to not gain the most from their visits, student/work visas...especially if they plan on living the rest of their lives outside of Poland.
MediaWatch 10 | 945
14 Feb 2011 #317
Well...I'm not sure about that one...
According to latest PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) research, students attending Polish schools have better learning results than their European peers.

That's interesting information on the skills of Polish students in comparison to others.

Thanks BB.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 Feb 2011 #318
Thaknk for reminding me. Solaris and Autosan had slipped my mind, so I checked them out. Also Optimus, a tragic success story of Mr Kluska.
spinacz
2 Aug 2011 #319
Why we are proud you ask. I say, we are proud because of our history. Because polish workers movement as the only one from the eastern block started decomposing comunism trought the 70's and the 80's. We are proud because of all uprisings, wars we fought to maintain our independence, no matter if they were succesfull. We are proud because what ever happened trought the centuries, we kept our identity and honor meant more than will to survive. We are proud of stoping islam expansion in 17th century and for stoping communists in 1920. We are proud of our music, cinema, paintings and culture in general, which is one of a kind, no matter if someone abroad knows it or not. We are proud of natural beauty of our country, and its variety. We are proud of well known beautifull women, difficult language and many many more. It may seem silly for foreigners, expecialy for those who doesn't know what am I talking about. You have to be born polish to understand.

Some say that being a Pole is not a nationality, it's a way of life:)

Sorry for my english tho.
TheOther 6 | 3,692
2 Aug 2011 #320
So Poles are living in the past, that's what you're saying? How depressing.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
2 Aug 2011 #321
thats not what he said, he said they are proud of their accomplishments.. what they went thru
to get to today.

and pretty much all countries and people have a past.

can you tell us about yours? or were you just born?
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768
2 Aug 2011 #322
Why? What a bland question, can't that be asked of any ethnicity and culture? Because of the general nationalism, history, culture, language, and group heritage that is represented by these people like with all other ethnicity.

My god this hitting the nail on the head!

It has long been a curiosity of mine that people take pride in things that they neither accomplished nor affected...
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
2 Aug 2011 #323
It has long been a curiosity of mine that people take pride in things that they neither accomplished nor affected...

yeah we know.. keep trying to figure it out.. meantime

People who appreciate things will cont to evolve and learn from the accomplishments and the mistakes
of the past... good luck to you and your trying to figure it out.. by the way,, do you own a phone
or are you not happy someone from the past had enough brains to actually invent it.

oh yeah, how about the computer you sit on that you didnt make.. but someone from the recent
past did.. and hes a millionare and by golly hes loving his past and I am sure he learned from
the guys who failed before him.

sorry, that was carried away.

we have no choice but to look to the past before we can move towards a future.
TheOther 6 | 3,692
2 Aug 2011 #324
thats not what he said, he said they are proud of their accomplishments.. what they went thru to get to today.

And that's not living in the past? Obsession with something that happened centuries ago? Repeating those "great accomplishments" over and over and over again? What you see here on PF is not normal. But then, there are hardly any real Poles on this forum anyway, so I'm not too worried about Poland... :)

and pretty much all countries and people have a past.

Yes, they do, and most are even proud of their countries. But they don't talk about it all the time.

being beautiful with their Slavic good looks

And you are a prime example, right? Ha ha ha!
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
2 Aug 2011 #325
Yes, they do. But they don't talk about it all the time.

Quote the other-

and how do you know they dont talk about it all the time? you know that many people?

your on a polish forum..dont you think your expectations are a little high to think people
wont talk about it here?
TheOther 6 | 3,692
2 Aug 2011 #326
and how do you know they dont talk about it all the time?

Common sense? If people would talk about it all the time, they would be diagnosed with a mental disorder, and the Polish people I know are definitely not sick (and they don't ramble on about history either).

dont you think your expectations are a little high to think people wont talk about it here?

Patrycja, I actually enjoy discussions about history. But not constantly, and certainly not in the way it is discussed by the "Poland, Poland über alles" crowd here.

PS: check your PM.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
2 Aug 2011 #327
Patrycja, I actually enjoy discussions about history. But not constantly, and certainly not in the way it is discussed by the "Poland, Poland über alles" crowd here.

QUOTE THE OTHER-

This is a forum , not your house.. I am sure your circle of friends discuss alot of different
things.

What topics would you like to see in a Polish forum? I think they cover an abundance of
topics, you choose to respond to the one that deals with why polish are proud. then you
say your tired of it.. but you dont have to come into this thread, there are many other
threads dealing with current affairs..

not saying your a bad person, but your putting yourself in this conversation.. none of us
asked you ( HEY THE OTHER WHAT DO YOU THINK??)

everyones Opinion is valuable.. but if you say, well I am tired of it all, thats not an Opinion
thats just plain whining.

I am sure we would all join you in another thread of interest if you want us too :)
TheOther 6 | 3,692
2 Aug 2011 #328
everyones Opinion is valuable.. but if you say, well I am tired of it all, thats not an Opinion thats just plain whining.

Too easy, Patrycja. You're long enough on PF to know that the forums are overwhelmed and consumed by nationalistic history threads/ posts. No matter what you discuss, there will always be some smartass showing up who hijacks the thread with a post that the Jews are evil, that Poland was always a victim, and on top of that spouts some WW2 crap. I'm simply sick of this sh*t, because it ruins PF and it gives Poland a bad reputation.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
2 Aug 2011 #329
I'm simply sick of this sh*t, because it ruins PF and it gives Poland a bad reputation.

that we both agree on.

but your first quote was that poles are living in the past, and it was boring.

now your changin it to your sick of it..

I am not sure where your at with Polish history at this point you have said three different things
in the same few posts..

you said you liked it, your sick of it and you think its boring

errrr.. ok.

Maybe go relax for a while.. :)
TheOther 6 | 3,692
2 Aug 2011 #330
I am not sure where your at with Polish history at this point you have said three different things in the same few posts. you said you liked it, your sick of it and you think its boring

I like history. I'm sick of ultra-nationalistic and/or racist posts. The latter are boring. All clear now? :)

Going to have a coffee now...


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