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Poland on its way to Greece?


Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 Aug 2011 #31
Crow, be careful with Russia.

Now, Poland. The OP was likely engaging in scaremongering tactics. Poland always has the trump card of shale gas and I don't want the Russians to stand in their way on that one. Let the people have fun together but Tusk take heed of a bullish Putin.
unique_username
10 Aug 2011 #32
Lets just face it. We are ALL heading for a global financial collapse. The signs are everywhere unless you have your head in the sand.

Look at gold. It has climbed 400USD since March. Same with silver.

The bankers have fleeced us all and are sending us on the roller coaster.

Hold on here it comes!!
sascha 1 | 826
10 Aug 2011 #33
Germany starts struggling ;)

german foxes as someone says here... ;)

The EU will be nice to them for some time longer

when they 'smell' sth they will act like with others in eu. no mercy...and the arrogance will prevail again...

Russia respect its obligations. Russian mafia, too. This is hostile world, you know

that's slavic business ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 Aug 2011 #34
German foxes, right :)

Poland's success has to have its limits ;)

Slavic business? Nah, that's mafia business. Big difference!
sascha 1 | 826
10 Aug 2011 #35
Slavic business? Nah, that's mafia business. Big difference!

slavic business yes 'cause both are slavic nations and 'mafia', ok the west calls it 'mafia' different, but the outcome is f.e. the last financial crisis ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 Aug 2011 #36
The crisis was more in peoples' confidence in spending as opposed to anything else. Given that the layperson knows very little of economics, pulling the wool over their eyes was easy.
southern 75 | 7,096
10 Aug 2011 #37
The crisis is structural.It is very deep thing just in the core of the system.Most importantly it is irreversible.It has passed the no go back point some time ago.
sascha 1 | 826
10 Aug 2011 #38
Given that the layperson knows very little of economics, pulling the wool over their eyes was easy.

yep, imagine the average one would know more or be more intersting? some people would fast at least loose their pants...

The crisis was more in peoples' confidence in spending as opposed to anything else

not only that. it was homemade and the r.o.t.w. had to pay fot it and its scheisse bank system...as we can see it seems to have no end...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 Aug 2011 #39
Exactly, sascha. They count on the stupidity of people.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
11 Aug 2011 #40
Materialism is overrated? Spoken like a true Catholic. Roman pagan hogwash. But getting back to the point, Poland won't go the way of Greece as long as they keep the zloty. If things get bad they can do what Iceland did and reflate their currency. If they give up the zloty for the Euro they need their heads examined. Give up your currency, give up your sovereignty.
legend 3 | 664
11 Aug 2011 #41
The main countries that have it bad in Europe are PIGS (some say PIIGGS or something like that).
Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
11 Aug 2011 #42
They have it bad because they gave up their currency for the Euro which is really the German Mark. The Euro is much stronger of a currency than their economies can support.
southern 75 | 7,096
11 Aug 2011 #43
They chose euro to lessen the borrowing costs and then borroed massively to satisfy the internal market.The whole issue has to do with common interests of lots of forces throughout Europe based on different grounds.(PIIGs wanting to lessen the borrowing costs by exploiting the low interest rates for Germany which was reliable and needed them for industrial production,Germany wanting to boost exports by inflation in PIIGs and drop of euro value they created so german products became artificially competitive etc).Anyway there is normal there is logistics and creative accounting at some point someone started blowing hot air more than the system could afford but unfortunately he was in power position and could blackmail the rest.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
11 Aug 2011 #44
Only external factors like the IMF or World Bank can cripple them.

You can only get a loan from the IMF or world bank by asking for it. How can that be defined as an external factor??

I suppose you think that anyone who borrows money and cannot pay it back is a victim??
NomadatNet 1 | 457
11 Aug 2011 #45
Materialism is overrated? Spoken like a true Catholic.

Catholic church maybe speaking so, anti-materialists, but, they are one of richest institutions of the world..

Greeks may tell everybody that "uffff, we are in crisis, we became poors, we lost everythings" and such cries - but, don't trust them.. They probably hided the golds in their pillows.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Aug 2011 #46
Chicago Pol? Materialism is not so intertwined with religion IMHO. Again, a simple label slap with no real rational thought behind it. Be ashamed of yourself ;) ;)

Peterweg, less of the naivety please. These loans are thrust on people through excessive persuasion. Call it unofficial compulsion if you will.

Nomad, glad you see the facade :)
OP LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
11 Aug 2011 #47
Poland won't go the way of Greece as long as they keep the zloty.

The problem is that Poland committed to switch to Euro.They should not have done so and kept their own currency like the UK has kept its £ Sterling Pound.

I think Poland needed so much money from the Euro zone, all these funds they received , they had to modernise their post communist society ,everything was falling apart.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
11 Aug 2011 #48
The problem is that Poland committed to switch to Euro.

Maybe you should look up the difference between 'committed' to and 'having'.
gazzaroon - | 36
11 Aug 2011 #49
Actually Poland had no choice but to accept the Euro as part of the accession to the EU. The only thing the can do now is delay it's introduction and long may that continue.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Aug 2011 #50
Gazzaroon, really? Did it form part of a Protocol? Britain has always been able to opt out through banging on about fudging of the convergence criteria.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
11 Aug 2011 #51
Actually Poland had no choice but to accept the Euro as part of the accession to the EU. The only thing the can do now is delay it's introduction and long may that continue.

Provide some sort of evidence to that bullshit comment.

This is no way the Euro countries are allowed to accept members unless they fit the entry requirements, conversely Poland has said they would only apply if the Euro fits Polands specifications.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Aug 2011 #52
That's my understanding, peterweg. EU Law was my major so I should know such things.
grubas 12 | 1,390
11 Aug 2011 #53
What do you mean "have no choice"?You ever heard old Polish saying Musi to na Rusi,a w Polsce jak kto chce?
Barney 15 | 1,476
12 Aug 2011 #54
As others have said Poland must adopt the Euro all they can do is delay it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Aug 2011 #55
Then sth must have changed from my studies as nations clearly had the choice whether to join or not. I can't see that having changed.
Barney 15 | 1,476
12 Aug 2011 #56
The ascension states are compelled to adopt it as part of joining the EU once they have met the criteria. All they can do to delay joining is to screw up their own economies and which government would do that;)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
12 Aug 2011 #57
Provide some sort of evidence to that bullshit comment.

There's no bullshit about it - the UK and Denmark have opt-outs, Sweden was allowed to stay out on the basis of not having had a vote on it (it wasn't part of their Accession agreement) - but the rest are obliged to join. Right now, they aren't particularly worried - but that can change. They've already warned the "new" EU countries that they won't be allowed to continue outside of the Euro.

You could start by reading the Treaty of Accession from 2003 - which states in black and white that they shall participate in Economic and Monetary Union from the time of accession.

Sorry, but Poland's choice in the long run is to repeal the Treaty or join the Euro.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
12 Aug 2011 #58
Sorry, but Poland's choice in the long run is to repeal the Treaty or join the Euro.

If it was up to me (of course which it isn't) I'd vote for repeal. As for the the money Poland has received from the Euro zone just consider it war reparations. If Poland accepts the Euro they'll become another Ireland.

Seanus,

Chicago Pol? Materialism is not so intertwined with religion IMHO. Again, a simple label slap with no real rational thought behind it.

Roman Church preaches anti-materialistic message but Vatican walls are encased in Gold. Material wealth is morally neutral.
Crow 146 | 9,105
12 Aug 2011 #59
God loves Poland! Serbians loves Poles! Poland would be good!

Sarmats awake!
dr_rabbit 5 | 90
12 Aug 2011 #60
You could start by reading the Treaty of Accession from 2003.

At the time of the treaty, joining the monetary union was probably perceived as more of a privilege than an obligation. As such, the convergence criteria are quite stringent. If Poland enacted policy constantly which meant it systematically avoided meeting the convergence criteria, then surely the could indefinitely delay joining, by saying every couple of years, as they have been, "we need more time". Such economic policies aren't necessarily that bad, as the convergence criteria are pretty conservative.

I think Germany has more pressing fights than to demand Poland joins the Euro. And if they really want to press the point, by the time that happens Poland will be in a reasonably strong position to renegotiate: the existing opt-outs make it feasible for them to renegotiate, as well as the fact it may be mutually beneficial for Germany and Poland for the zloty to remain.


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