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Parental responsibility removal in Poland


James mallone
19 Jun 2015  #1
Hello everyone

Could anyone advise on the concept of parental authority?

I am a man ...I live and work in England and the mother had successfully removed my parental authority

My daughter is 2 years old...

For the first year of her life the mum didn't let me see her .

Now nearly two years old ...I get to see her a couple of hrs each month..flying back and forth between London and Poland

The court said that since I didn't see her much in her first yr of life ( again ...the mother didn't allow it ) and more importantly since I live and work in England - and not in Poland let alone the mothers home town ,that parental authority should accordingly be removed

To me this suggests that were I to zemoldavat in the mothers home town ....get a pesel number ....rent a flat and get a part time job perhaps or study - in short be able to prove I effectively live in Poland that gaining parental authority in a yr or so wouldn't be a problem.

I write this knowing of many cases where Polish men have parental authority despite their Polish girlfriends etc living in the UK

Is gaining parental authority these days a near impossibility for unmarried fathers - particularly fathers who are not Polish and not living in Poland?????
Polsyr 6 | 769
19 Jun 2015  #2
Hi James;

I recommend you consult a lawyer based in Poland. I am aware of some cases with similarities to your case, but the devil is in the details, and sometimes a small detail can be a deciding factor.
OP James mallone
19 Jun 2015  #3
I already have spoken /used a lawyer

Court of first instance last year made decision to remove completely authority

Court of appeal this week confirmed decision ... for the above reasons

It seems that not living in poland really is a stumbling block
The fact that these days cheap direct flights and emails exist cut no ice - a responsible parent wanting authority must live near his daughter or else lose all decision making

Either make a decision give up any life etc outside of poland and locate there - or else give up on parental authority

I can't explain how bad it feels losing authority - particularly when I've done nothing wrong

Alimony regularly paid ,regular monthly trips (this year at least) and genuine interest in my daughter

I've decided to try and find another lawyer - in łódź

Ultimately if I have to give everything up in the UK and move to poland I will.
but it's a depressing thought
Gosc123456
19 Jun 2015  #4
@James: you need a good lawyer, and not random "advice" from non expert from a random forum. I personally know 2 foreign guys in similar situations and I can say that they are having a hell of a time. It is extremely difficult to win in a Polish law against Polish citizens and most difficult when the couple is not married. I am not saying it is impossible but extremely hard so you need a very competent lawyer.

Instead of wasting your time trying to convince us, start looking for a lawyer specialized in family affairs! You may find lists at British consulates in Poland.

Good luck!
OP James mallone
19 Jun 2015  #5
I think I may have found yesterday ,his English is very very good and his speciality is family law so he says.
I'm meeting him next week
I appreciate your feedback ,I really do ...good advice about contacting the consulate- and I think your comment re "treating anyone non polish people very badly" is probably spot on.

hence if I improve polish language and actually live and work in lodz I may well be treated better than a foriegner

Poland....what a fking place
Gosc123456
19 Jun 2015  #6
Good luck, James !

Yes, a fking place ;). The mother - if Polish - shall always be right ;). You are a foreigner and also not married to the mother = 2 big "sins" in Poland.
Harry
19 Jun 2015  #7
Could anyone advise on the concept of parental authority?

As far as I'm aware, what you're talking about is the right to have a say in decisions which are made for a child which an adult would make for themselves. The most common is the right to have a say in the decision of which school a child attends. Another important (but less common) right is the right to have a say in decisions about medical treatment. Parental authority is not the same as parental rights, it is only one element of parental rights. To be honest, I kind of see where the court might be coming from: if you don't live in Poland or speak Polish, it is very difficult for you to make informed decisions about things like choice of primary school. If you don't live in Poland or speak Polish, getting your informed consent to emergency medical treatment is going to be problematic, possibly life-threateningly so.

in short be able to prove I effectively live in Poland that gaining parental authority in a yr or so wouldn't be a problem.

Your mistake there is that you think Polish family courts are rational: they are not. You are a foreigner and so will almost always be in the wrong. You are a man and so will mostly be in the wrong. Add those two together and you are pretty much never going to be right. And that would be if the court didn't have at least reasonable grounds for a decision, which in this case they may appear to have.

Court of appeal this week confirmed decision ... for the above reasons

So give up now; judges here back each other up. Even when a family court judge is very clearly wrong, the appeals court will almost always back the first judge up. For example, if you appeal a decision based on the fact that the judge's decision is the exact opposite of the findings of the court-appointed psychologists, by the time you get to the appeal court you will find that the very same court-appointed psychologists have written new findings which by a freak co-incidence now support the judge's decision.

Polish family courts are more than happy to treat Poles like complete scum, just living and working here for a year won't have much impact.
OP James mallone
19 Jun 2015  #8
I only hope that u don't speak from experience harry.
the picture u paint bleak beyond words

I know for fact that if you are a father in the UK and are on the b/c ...then married or not , living elsewhere in the eu or not...parental authority is automatic.

my permission would be needed before mum travels the world with my kid.
should mum drop dead - me then getting custody of a child would be pretty much automatic

In Poland land - with out authority /responsibility ( not talking about custody) in the event mum drops dead - kid goes straight to a care home ....not to me....coś I've no authority

I'm not even to be consulted on any matter relating to my daughter

But i am to shut up ....and pay alimony....and not upset the judge
And maybe if lucky ...secure some contact time.

Someone did say to me there is such as a notion as partial parental authority - wasn't even given that

You wonder what Poland has against fathers?

The notion of dead beat dads is well out of date - almost as much as the family court itself
Pol attorney
19 Jun 2015  #9
I am a lawyer based in Poland and we have already dealt with family law cases here, so I would be able to help you with this.

Contact:
Harry
19 Jun 2015  #10
the picture u paint bleak beyond words

Pretty much. Although your picture is not that bleak really; I know of far too many cases where one parent has kidnapped children and illegally brought them to Poland and the Polish court has sided with the criminal, despite international law being crystal clear on this topic.

my permission would be needed before mum travels the world with my kid.

Nope, if you refuse to give permission, the mother could go to court and ask the court to over-rule your decision as your decision is not in the best interests of the kid; see above for comments on how often a foreign man is right in a Polish family court.

In poland land - with out authority /responsibility ( not talking about custody) in the event mum drops dead

That's a new one to me, never heard of anything like that before.

I'm not even to be consulted on any matter relating to my daughter

Yes, but if the mother says to you "I think that primary school X will be best for our child, what do you think?" what would you say? The problem is that under Polish law, if you wanted to be a complete cock about it, not that you would, you could reply "I think that primary school Y will be best for our child, primary school X is completely rubbish." and then there's a dead-lock that needs to be resolved before the court.
joe day - | 1
8 Jan 2016  #11
James Malone- Can you please contact or update about your outcome. I have moved to Gorzow after my child was abducted from Scotland. The Polish family court in Gorzow sided with the known child abductor citing article 13 and they stated doctors evidence a child of my daughters age needed her mother as it could psychologically affect my 2 year old daughter. Now she is looking to take me to court on 09/03/16 to remove my parental rights. I have moved to Poland to be close to my daughter. I have given up everything to be with her and still get very little time. It's up to my ex and this depends on her mood and how she feels day to day. Polish family courts treat fathers here like dirt but foreigners like me really mean nothing. My daughter cries for me to stay and play with her and my ex tells me to leave. I actually watch the mental and psychological abuse she commits against my daughter and I. I hope you have some positive news as i understand your struggle. It's painful. I'm near the end of it here. Hope we can communicate soon. Take care Joe
Pol attorney 2 | 106
15 Jan 2016  #12
If you have a contact order from the Polish court, the child's mother must allow you to have regular contact with your daughter pursuant to the court's decision.

if she refuses to comply, the court may warn her or place heavy financial penalties on her -- so sooner or later she will have to give up and comply with the court's decision by giving you regular access to your child.

I am a lawyer from Poland and I am quite familiar with Polish family law regulations. They don't have any reason or legal cause to deprive you of parental rights if the child's mother knows your place of residence and if you were not convicted for any crimes, felonies against family, child abuse, drug or alcohol problems, etc.

Now she is looking to take me to court on 09/03/16 to remove my parental rights.

Polish Court CANNOT deprive you of parental responsibility, remove it or restrict it (or remove parental rights) unless there is a permanent obstacle/hindrance which makes it impossible for you to exercise your parental responsibility towards the child -- and, from what you say, this is clearly not the case in your situation. So in fact, the court in Poland and the child's mother won't be able to do it and shouldn't be able to do it.

If the child's father is not known or his place of residence is not known to the child's mother, then parental rights can be removed from the child's father in some situations. But even then 2 or 3 court hearings will be needed and the court's final decision must be made according to the submitted documents and evidence. So this is not an easy thing to do.

I am a lawyer based in Poland and I would be able to help you with your case.

If you are still interested, you can send me a private message on this forum, and we might be able to proceed with your case.
Harry
20 Jan 2016  #13
they stated doctors evidence a child of my daughters age needed her mother as it could psychologically affect my 2 year old daughter.

Interesting that they think that they can do that: they can't actually do that. You need to appeal to a higher court.

Now she is looking to take me to court on 09/03/16 to remove my parental rights.

Have you considered reporting her to the police in Scotland for kidnapping your daughter? Her actions are criminal.

I'd strongly suggest you contact a member here who has been through a full Hague process: ?action=userinfo&user=36295
UkGuy1976 - | 2
6 Apr 2017  #14
I have a question I would be grateful for some advice. My girlfriend has full parental control of her 8 year old son we have been together for 3 years she still lives in poland. The last 12 months we've been trying to get permission for her to come to the uk but despite her full control that states she has it on her divorce paper, the court still favoured her ex. Despite him not even turning up to the final decision ( which was strange) this whole case stinks, she has recently quit her job and found out her old boss is the sister of the judge who was dealing with case.

Does this responsibility stand for nothing?
She unsure about bringing him her to the uk for a holiday, I know in England if you have the only pr you don't need to ask the father you can go anywhere for 28 days.

Please help...... regards rob
delphiandomine 83 | 17,653
6 Apr 2017  #15
Does this responsibility stand for nothing?

If he hasn't been deprived of his rights as a parent, then she needs his permission to cross the border with the child. She can apply to the court to remove those rights, but it's a very difficult thing to do.
UkGuy1976 - | 2
6 Apr 2017  #16
Her divorce paper states parental responsibility is only with her. He has just the right to co-decide about school and medical care nothing else..
delphiandomine 83 | 17,653
6 Apr 2017  #17
If I understand you correctly, it means he hasn't been deprived of his rights, only that she has custody over him. That means that he still has a veto on the child being taken out of the country.

In this case, she should apply to the court for permission to take the child abroad for a holiday.
LOST IN POLAND1234
14 Dec 2018  #18
Hi does anyone no an advocate in slupsk that can be trusted i am living in Poland but not married mother has taken children from school and moved during court case.

mother was claiming benefits from uk but was stopped because she could not prove i lived in uk as i lived with her, so she had to go to court to get maintenance order from judge she failed to do that made me homeless removed children from school and nursery and moved to new area.

my solicitor has withheld evidence from court i had a blue card issued about me mentally abusing my ex but that came to nothing, she called police many times while i was living with her but nothing ever happened my son believes i will be killed for some reason he is only 7 and should not have this fear. my ex told the court i did not live with her and i never saw my children nor did i pay for anything the in temporary custody she told the court i did live with her and have contact with my children.

she took all the house hold belongings and put them in storage which i have to pay for but i cant get them as contract in her name.

she is constantly telling me I'm sick and ill mentally and will not let me see the children unless she is there and contact is random sometime 2 hours sometimes 1 she children are obviously going through there challenges mentally as mum is constantly abusing them mentally.

mum won temporary custody and now maintenance from the high court even though she has been proven to be a liar to the court.
i have had threats made by her family father and brother i am living in the area she moved to because i want to see the children but the school has no interest in knowing my son is dealing with mental abuse as they just see me as a disgruntled father.

i have full parental responsibility at the moment but we all know that mother will attempt to remove it at some point.
i paid my ex the fee she paid for the storage contract but she refuses to give me access so i believe she can take what ever she wants and sells it.

i am constantly gaslighted by my ex who insists none of this is actually happening can you imagine she said " she has not taken me to court its all my fault" " i did not live with her" she told me this over the kitchen table.

she constantly sends me texts that are just lies such as i swear at her all the time i threaten her with the police i abuse my children that i torture my children.

for the last two days I'm sure she has been removing my belongings from storage while pretending i will see my children today.
i have contacted the embassy they do nothing i contacted the consulate they do nothing at this stage i have thought of taking my life its been so bad.

i don't know if i can hold on much longer.
my solicitor refused to put in for regulated contact and said wait until after maintenance hearing then resigned 2 days before hearing then said they would put evidence into court 2 days before. then demanded 1000 pounds for one meeting.

when maintenance order came in the solicitor said they saved me money with their work but they did nothing there was no hearing it was in closed court.

as i wright this the school has just contacted me to ask me to bring in all court documents from court and court judgments.
,
can Poland be so organised against any foreigner and so anti father and ultimately anti child can this really be what Poland stands for, what about the children do they even exist in the courts eyes.

these poor children will have to live without a father because the mother wants benefits and maintenance not for the children but for herself, this is proved by the facts not my rantings as you may think.

what does this person gain by pushing me to suicide fatherless children no benefits from foreign country and no maintenance her pressure to make me run back to my country by refusing contact with my children and gaslighting me proves the mother is a bad parent and in fact breaking the law but for me there is no law, evidence has been lost by police, solicitors have withheld evidence then refused to act, yes you say change solicitors i have had 3 so far looking for a fourth.

can anyone out there hear me desperately in need of help.

ANYONE KNOW A GOOD ENGLISH SPEAKING LAWYER CRIMINAL AND FAMILY.


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