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Parental Child Abduction (Indian man married to Polish wife)


bronse89 1 | 6
8 Apr 2018 #1
Hi all,

I am an Indian married to a Polish wife. We have a 4 years old daughter. She is habitually resident here in Ireland. And my name is written on her birth certificate. And she was born in Poland while I was pursuing my study in Poland. We came to Ireland to seek better future as I was granted a scholarship to pursue PhD.

My wife and my daughter left for Poland to attend Easter break holiday for a month ( 19th of March until 12 of April).

Last Thursday when I called my wife she told me that she is not returning back to Ireland. I was shocked. She revealed that she planned to leave me for more than 3 months. She terminated her job, canceled the child benefits and my daughter school. She is adamant that she wants new life in Poland and wishes to divorce me. She has her own story to accuse me as a prime reason of breaking our relationship. She never talks to me seriously about this and suddenly she made her decision to leave Ireland with my daughter without my consent.

I am familiar with EU law of parental child abduction. I want to know what are my chances of returning my daughter to her habitual resident i.e. Ireland.

Thanks.
Ant63 13 | 410
8 Apr 2018 #2
I'm guessing you are aware of Reunite in the UK. If not contact them immediately. Listen to there advice and start proceedings under the Hague Convention for Abducted and Illegally Retained Children immediately. Follow Reunite's instructions precisely and with luck you will be returned to the position you were in before the parental abduction. Then as you probably know, you will then have to do the right thing in the Irish Courts which will make the decision regarding the childs future.

Good luck. The Polish courts in which these cases are tried, do not have the competence to do so, and can make very odd decisions. My wife and I won through, but paid a very heavy price in the divorce proceedings which legally could not be started until the Hague stuff was completed and the child was returned. The courts overlooked the matter of legality and made it political. If you intend divorcing, get everything in place prior to the end of your case and have someone ready to put papers in court immediately the child is on Irish soil. That way you may be able to prevent the Polish courts taking control of the divorce which will be bad for you if you win the abduction case.
OP bronse89 1 | 6
8 Apr 2018 #3
Thanks, Ant63. I have spoken with the Reunite in the UK and suggested me to call tomorrow. In the meantime, how my wife can file a divorce in Poland if her accusing upon me were happen in Ireland. We were married in Poland. Does the Polish law allow to divorce in this case?
OP bronse89 1 | 6
15 Apr 2018 #4
My wife hasn't returned back on the scheduled flight. I have submitted the Hague convention application. I am worried that if she is aware of this, she might have taken some action such as removal of my guardianship and so on.

I cannot trust her motive now. She may say that my child is at the physical and mental risk if she returned to Ireland. I want to know how does this rejection can be countered back to Polish court.

Any comments are warmly welcome.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 Apr 2018 #5
My advice is very simple: you need a ruthless Polish lawyer to represent you.

thesolicitor.ie

This is a good idea - they've got a dual Irish-Polish registered lawyer on the books. You *need* such a person.
OP bronse89 1 | 6
15 Apr 2018 #6
Thanks for the advice. I will follow the link.
If my child is returned, can I apply for single custody since my wife literally committed a crime?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 Apr 2018 #7
Let's just say that you have an almost 0% chance of getting the child returned.
OP bronse89 1 | 6
15 Apr 2018 #8
Are you saying that I have no chance to see my daughter?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 Apr 2018 #9
I'm saying exactly that. You need a lawyer who will be fearless and who knows the Polish family court system inside out. Even then, the chances of a positive outcome are almost zero. Polish courts simply do not respect judgements made under Hague when a Polish child is involved.

amazon.com/Idiots-Liars-Psychos-Me-Bizarre/dp/1520689349

Spend a few dollars and read this book. It will take you a few hours to read, and when you've finished, you'll understand.
Ant63 13 | 410
17 Apr 2018 #10
Let's just say that you have an almost 0% chance of getting the child returned.

Delph thats a bit harsh and not true.

Are you saying that I have no chance to see my daughter?

Do it right and you have a moderate chance.

Once your Hague case is filed with the supreme court there is nothing she can do until its over. Which city does this involve? If Poznan I can put you in touch with a lawyer who will treat you with respect and not empty your pockets for personal gain. Plenty of those scammers about.

Polish courts simply do not respect judgements made under Hague when a Polish child is involved.

Not strictly true. The problem is that there is nothing in Polish Law to enforce a decision made by the court for return. You have the order and you could ....
OP bronse89 1 | 6
17 Apr 2018 #11
Thanks for the optimistic view.

No, my wife lives at the moment in near Wroclaw. But I would appreciate if you could share some other lawyers along with the one you know from Poznan.

I have submitted all the documents mentioned according to Article 3.
I have contacted these lawyers so far.
reunite.org/lawyers.asp?location=international┬žion=Poland+&lawyers_international_submit=Find

Among them, this one (kg-legal.pl/en/) seems quite competent.

I have a question, are the free legal aid provided by Central Authority competent enough or should I represent my own competent lawyers?

Thanks.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
17 Apr 2018 #12
Delph thats a bit harsh and not true.

Better to be harsh now than to leave him with false hope.

The problem is that there is nothing in Polish Law to enforce a decision made by the court for return.

More to the point, no-one in Poland is going to risk doing such a thing, given the fact that the population believes that foreign courts are always against Poles.

They moan about a broken court system, yet cheer when someone openly defies foreign courts.
OP bronse89 1 | 6
18 Apr 2018 #13
Where to get such fearless lawyer from Poland?
pawian 178 | 15,928
17 Feb 2020 #14
The latest case - a foreign father abducted his 10 yo son from Poland to Belgium. The Polish police was informed but refused to take immediate action. When they did, it was too late.

fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polska/trojmiasto/gdynia-uprowadzenie-10-latka-policja-uruchomila-child-alert/04y04tg

The case is ambiguous coz the Belgian police claim the father wasn`t deprived of his parental rights, and it was the Polish mother who first took their son to Poland in 2018 against Belgian law.



Lenka 3 | 2,651
17 Feb 2020 #15
The police said they took the action but the child alert is 12 hour thing that is supposed to quickly reach the biggest number of people- that's why they started it in the morning when people start the day.

Quite frankly I find it all a bit dodgy... I wouldn't be surprised if the mother really took the child first. I feel sorry for the kid, that is all. No matter what really happened he will be the victim.

Always surprises me how quickly people can forget it's not about them.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
17 Feb 2020 #16
The case is ambiguous coz

Pawian, where did you read that? I can't find anything stating so...
Lenka 3 | 2,651
17 Feb 2020 #17
Try Onet for example. They run the story up to date
pawian 178 | 15,928
17 Feb 2020 #18
Pawian, where did you read that? I can't find anything stating so...

Yes, it is on various sites.
fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polska/trojmiasto/uprowadzenie-ibrahima-matka-nie-miala-prawa-zabrac-syna-z-belgii/tv0w0t1
Not A PRL NPC
17 Feb 2020 #19
a foreign father abducted his 10 yo son

WOW! Such xenophobia! The father is Belgian FFS! Only an illiberal anti-EU Polexiteer would call him 'foreign'!

Besides, a father cannot abduct his own child! Only a brainwashed female-thinking feminist viper would much spew such anti-male bias!

Yes, it is on various sites.

Yeah, but they are in Polish that's why delphy boy can't find anything.
Lenka 3 | 2,651
17 Feb 2020 #20
father is Belgian

No, he is not. And even if he was that makes him a foreigner in Poland

father cannot abduct his own child

Hmmm, and here all the legal world heard about parental abduction...They must all be wrong...

Get lost troll
pawian 178 | 15,928
17 Feb 2020 #21
Get lost troll

hahaha that`s our old friend, ShtonyBrits. It cannot live without me - I am its role model.

WOW!

Why did it leave us so abruptly in another thread? I was hoping for a longer discussion...... :):)
Not A PRL NPC
17 Feb 2020 #22
No, he is not.

A Belgian by definition is a native, citizen, or inhabitant of Belgium.

parental abduction...They must all be wrong...

Yeah, we get it, you're just old guard feminist bitter at seeing a man exercise his right to be with his own son.

Get lost troll

Get found cat lady!
pawian 178 | 15,928
17 Feb 2020 #23
would call him 'foreign'!

So, was it semantically incorrect English to call him foreign? :):) The media dub the man a Moroccan currently residing in Belgium.
Lenka 3 | 2,651
17 Feb 2020 #24
And where does it say the father was Belgian?

Either parent can abduct a child and I already said I wouldn't be surprised if the mother did it first.

Try to get your bearings together, for now you just show yourself for a fool
mafketis 29 | 9,544
17 Feb 2020 #25
where does it say the father was Belgian?

I've seen him referred to as Moroccan (many, many, many Moroccans live in Belgium) no word on if he has Belgian citizenship....
Lenka 3 | 2,651
17 Feb 2020 #26
Exactly. I think our new guest that is not really so new got a bit confused by the 'Belgian police' and 'Belgian court'... Didn't cross his mind one doesn't have to be a citizen to live somewhere
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
17 Feb 2020 #27
no word on if he has Belgian citizenship....

Probably a permanent resident.

Thanks Lenka and Oawian, I was looking in the wrong places :/ TVN24 is running with the story as well, and the Polish police are coming under criticism for not checking as to who the legal guardian was.
Not A PRL NPC
17 Feb 2020 #28
My, my my. How nationalistic and ugly you leftists becomes when a feminist issue needs defending.

FFS! The father isn't a Moroccan tourist spending a couple days in Belgium. He has roots in Belgium and the dispute with his wife is subject to laws in Belgium and the EU. End of!

Calling him a foreigner is only done to dehumanize him. Lying that he abducted his own son is a feminist tactic to brand all men as "toxic".

There is no doubting that the ugly two-faced cat lady feminists would not be dismissing him as "foreign" when it comes to him coughing up cash to pay for his son and the Polish woman who chose to get pregnant by him.

Now that his son is safely back with his Belgian father the mother should now be tasked with paying child support! And staying far away too so this father and his son can live in peace.
pawian 178 | 15,928
18 Feb 2020 #29
Calling him a foreigner is only done to dehumanize him.

Hmmm.... I thought that calling him a foreigner was only to make people aware he wasn`t Polish. And that a foreigner is perfectly neutral. I am so sorry, I am not an expert in this posh political correctness because I am a simple country boy from Poland. :) I still have to learn a lot.

Lying that he abducted his own son is a feminist tactic

Actually, the man attacked the mother in the street, punched her several times, grabbed the boy, threw him into the car and drove off quickly. Witnesses said so. In result, I thought it was an abduction. Now you say it wasn`t. I am prone to believe you. Probably my English failed me here. So, when can we talk about a real abduction?

Nice to see that Bieganski is continuing his crusade against Polish women.

Mr Bieganski is a very learned man. He runs his own blog and publishes books.
Atch 16 | 3,322
18 Feb 2020 #30
I thought that calling him a foreigner was only to make people aware he wasn`t Polish.

That's how I understood it. When you said he was a foreign father married to a Polish woman, I understood that as a foreigner in Poland, not of Polish nationality or citizenship, same as me. I'm a foreigner. However, when a weirdo is looking for an excuse to get hysterical.................

your old pal Harry's lasts words

I don't know what happened to Harry but since his disappearance from the forum it's generally accepted that he died. Although I accept the trolling and sometimes the genuine craziness of the variety of weirdos and nut jobs who are drawn to this site, I still find the number of nasty comments made about Harry, downright disgusting. It shows just what a low level this place has sunk to, that it's inhabited by such sub-human individuals.

As I commented to Cargo Pants recently after his latest Harry insult, send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. You can make cheap, glib remarks about the deceased but one day you will join them, you will face your final moments in this world. I watched a man having a heart attack when I was thirteen. I waited with him while the ambulance was on the way. He was an old soldier who had been through World War One. As he sat there struggling for breath,he was looking right into my eyes and I could see his fear. Let's hope that death comes more peacefully to you and the rest of us here.


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