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CAN SOME ONE GIVE ME FREE POLISH LEGAL ADVICE ON BANKRUPTCY?


polomintz 2 | 46
27 Jan 2010 #1
I have a boyfriend in poland who suffers from a Bipolar disorder and has previous alcohol problems also! He recently lost his job and has creditors chasing him for a 3000zlt debt! He has no way of paying the funds. I am scared of him facing jail and I dont want him go down that route!

Please help some one! so I can pass this on to my boyfriend
Ziemowit 13 | 4,272
27 Jan 2010 #2
I strongly doubt if he may go to jail for not paying 3,000 zl of debt! A bill on consumer (individual) bankruptcy was passed not so long ago in Poland, but I am not able to give you any details on that (please search the internet in Polish).

His real problem may be alcohol depedency rather than the 3,000 zloties he owns someone. But you say he has stopped drinking, so let's assume you are well informed on that.
jonni 16 | 2,485
27 Jan 2010 #3
Exactly. People do not go to jail for debts. Unless it's an unpaid fine or child maintainance. A bit more information about the nature of the debt would be useful.
Harry
27 Jan 2010 #4
There is no way in hell that he's going to prison and as far as I know you can't declare bankruptcy for a debt that small (you could try but the judge would tell you to stop wasting the court's time). What he needs to do is contact his creditors and work out a payment scheme, something like 50 zloty a week for 60 weeks or 200zl a month for 15 months. The main thing is to not borrow more money to repay the existing debt with: there are people who will lend that much money to him but you really do not want to borrow from them.
OP polomintz 2 | 46
27 Jan 2010 #5
ok - he has an unpaid fine - about 60 pounds in his money without a job - yikes!

He lost his job way back in january - he has been working on and off for so many years. 2 years ago, he borrowed a 2000 pln personal loan. He has paid a little over 1000 pln which leaves 2337.60 pln. He has no possessions - only clothes and shoes and he lives with his sister! Untill he lost his job, it took a toll on his mental health. He suffers from a bipolar disorder and he was really down in his luck he eventually hit the drink and this was not a cause of mental health - it has enhanced it due to his poor situation. He is not drinking as much as he used to which is a good thing!

He says that if he cant sell his posessions and there is no way of paying his debt, he could face jail!

what i found under the new bankruptcy law of poland

"The new statute allows individuals to file for personal bankruptcy only in extraordinary circumstances that are beyond their control, such as unexpected illness, loss of employment or theft. Individuals who lose their property due to alcoholism or other addictions are not eligible to file for bankruptcy protection, as is likewise the case for those who were terminated from employment “for cause” or by way of settlement with their employer"...

Given the circumstances, is there any way where the courts can relax the situation? Given the fact he has a mental health issue which is out of his control. Also he lost his job because mental began to deteriate and they basically paid him off.
jonni 16 | 2,485
27 Jan 2010 #6
The fine is an easy matter. He should write to the issuing court and ask for 'raty'. Thousands of people do this, and the payments are sometimes suspended in cases of hardship - especially if there is a health issue involved.

About the loan, where is it from, a bank, a company like Skok, an agent of Provident Polska/GE Money Bank, or an independent moneylender? This is very relevant.
OP polomintz 2 | 46
27 Jan 2010 #7
jonni

hello there

thank you very much

ok he is with the provident - independant money dealer, he says it was on raty everything was ok when he had a job, now he doesnt have an income PERIOD!!! no state benifits - bugger all! from what he says its too late now! so there must be some way round it - what can the polish courts do? if your all claiming he cant be put in jail, he cant file for bankruptcy, well he can try but the courts will turn around and say waste of time!

what can the courts really do to him?
Harry
27 Jan 2010 #8
2 years ago, he borrowed a 2000 pln personal loan. He has paid a little over 1000 pln which leaves 2337.60 pln.

This is why money lenders should be avoided.
jonni 16 | 2,485
27 Jan 2010 #9
Provident Polska is the Polish subsidiary of a British company called Provident Financial. They have a very poor reputation and have been the subject of documentary films on British TV and questions in parliament, especially about making loans to people who should not (and often legally do not) have access to credit. Part of my old work back in the UK was connected to people on the District Mental Handicap Register who had been illegally given loans by Provident agents even though they were not allowed to sign contracts and did not understand the concept of a loan.

Their business model is quite clever. They do not lend money to borrowers, they lend it to agents, and carry out marketing and legal services on the agents' behalf. The borrower's contract is with the agent - whether the agent is ethical or not.

One particular criticism is that if people pay late, the interest can skyrocket and the borrower can end up paying many times the value of the original loan.

My advice would be to pay the Provident loan as quickly as possible to avoid compound being added; pay it in small stages, but pay it quickly and then worry about the fine. A registered letter to the court (or drop it off and get a stamped acknowledgement from reception) asking for installments (perhaps followed by a letter asking for suspension of installments) is important.

One bit of light in a dark story is that the process of legal debt collection in PL is very slow - a court order can take a long time, and since your b/f has Bipolar, this may help in any court case.
golddigger
27 Jan 2010 #10
In poland there are some licensed debit collectors(i consider them as bounty hunters in USA) once after the court order they can come to your house and take your belongings worth the amount or even your property (ofcourse with legal channels) cuz I happen to meet one of those guys who work on commission basis legally you have to find out yourself about it more
Harry
27 Jan 2010 #11
Provident Polska is the Polish subsidiary of a British company called Provident Financial.

They are indeed utter scum.

Personally I'd write them a letter telling them that either they can freeze the interest rate right now and he'll pay the debt in weekly installments or they can take him to court and get bugger all because there is nothing to have.

I happen to meet one of those guys

Yet another of your superb business deals went wrong did it Deepak?
OP polomintz 2 | 46
28 Jan 2010 #12
ok dokey

cheers for the advice on that xxx
pawian 176 | 14,299
17 Aug 2019 #13
CAN SOME ONE GIVE ME FREE POLISH LEGAL ADVICE ON BANKRUPTCY?

Consumer bankruptcy has been possible since 2016. I don`t know the details cause never needed one, but I am sure you will find plenty of articles on it.

filipiakbabicz.com/restrukturyzacja/en/2019/07/26/changes-in-consumer-bankruptcy/
BritboyByd 7 | 49
17 Nov 2020 #14
Merged:

Bankruptcy in Poland



Greetings,

My Brother in Law and his wife has a lot of debts in Poland (200k ZL), the basis of these debts were generated due a company they operated, but ran into financial difficulties over the last few years

They have limited income in which to service the debts. They have a flat (with mortagge) too.

What would be the options available to them? Would bankruptcy work for them, or would they go to jail (myth)?

Any constructive advice would be most welcome
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
17 Nov 2020 #16
Any constructive advice would be most welcome

First things first: make sure that your own assets are secured. Blood is thicker than water, and you wouldn't be the first one to have his assets stolen for the benefit of the family. Your wife and the family will be expected to help in any way, particularly if they have assets that can be used to help the brother. So, no matter how much you trust your wife - move any spare cash into an account that she has no access to, and make sure to check the title deeds online of any property that you own in case a loan gets secured against the property.

Secondly, bankruptcy is only available if the circumstances were beyond their control. So, the court will take a close look at the operations of their company before deciding if bankruptcy can be offered.

Thirdly, if bankruptcy is offered, then the conditions are strict. The court will analyse their assets and decide which will be sold, which normally includes property. They then have to submit monthly accounts to the court, showing their precise financial situation. The court will decide on a repayment plan for these debts, taking into account their income and expenses. They can expect to live a very basic lifestyle for the period of repayment, including only being allowed to rent a very small property and to only have a car for commuting purposes only.
BritboyByd 7 | 49
17 Nov 2020 #17
Thank you delphiandomine for your advice

Secondly, bankruptcy is only available if the circumstances were beyond their control.

So if Bankruptcy is not available, and they cant pay the debts then what happens to the debts? Does it become a police matter or how is it resolved?

I'm guessing their company's debts are their debts? eg, debts dont die if the company closes?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
17 Nov 2020 #18
what happens to the debts?

The creditors will take them to court individually. If they get a ruling against them, then the creditors can appoint a balliff to retrieve what they can, which can include forcibly selling the apartment and other property. The police won't get involved unless they obstruct the work of the balliff.

I'm guessing their company's debts are their debts? eg, debts dont die if the company closes?

What was the legal form of the company? If they declared bankruptcy within 30 days of knowing that a limited liability company was insolvent, then they aren't liable for the debts.
BritboyByd 7 | 49
17 Nov 2020 #19
Thanks Delphiandomine for the advice. Looks like there isnt really a way out of this.
What is the end stage, so assume baliffs come and sell everything, but it still not enough to cover the debts, do they get bound over to pay them back out of future income?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
17 Nov 2020 #20
What is the end stage, so assume baliffs come and sell everything, but it still not enough to cover the debts

Kind of. The thing is that the bailiff will order your income to be frozen in order to pay your debts, so for instance, let's say your brother in law gets a job as a truck driver. They'll ask the employer to freeze xxxx PLN monthly, based on the minimum needed to live.

Having said that, if you can get me a statement of who they owe money to and how much, I can give you some advice about how to negotiate with them. Smaller companies in particular are much easier to negotiate with, and they may well agree to a deal such as 50% in 12 months time.

(PS; in the meantime, the BIL should get a job in Amazon over Christmas. You can work 12-14 hour days there every day if you wish...)
Cargo pants 2 | 832
17 Nov 2020 #21
Any constructive advice would be most welcome

Legal advice on a forum esp from people with failed consultancy business?Good Luck anyway.
BritboyByd 7 | 49
18 Nov 2020 #22
if you can get me a statement of who they owe money to and how much,

I believe most of the money owed is to banks/credit card companies.


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