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How well do Polish people understand Slovak?


mafketis 29 | 10,297
27 Mar 2017 #31
accept or not accept current (!) political reality and borders in the region

I remember a Croation (from Split) talking about how his parents were fine with being in Jugoslavija but freaked out when Milosevic started talking about their home being part of greater serbia they absolutely did not want to be ruled from Belgrade.
Crow 151 | 9,722
27 Mar 2017 #32
I knew you would move this discussion on the field of ``Greater Serbia``. What else you can say. Its how mainstream media prepared you to react when topic on Serbian rights is opened. That is western European ``gift`` to Serbians. So, that global public even don`t get a chance to understand what is this all about.

When we are at dissolution of Yugoslavia, it is Greater Croatia and Greater Albania that was/is being created/creating, not Greater Serbia. Serbia was for Yugoslavia. If it didn`t work Serbia was for peaceful dissolution of country. Others wanted war and others jeopardized rights of Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim Serbs. Great effort and great money has been invested in weakening of Serbians in every possible way, even by attempts to create new nations from them.

But, soon enough Catholic Serbians would deal with Catholic Croats. Nobody can`t prevent right to unity of Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim Serbs. People would speak for themselves, when foreign factor is silenced and internal allowed to appear and, with strengthening of Serbia in any sense. Serbian lands will be free.
mafketis 29 | 10,297
27 Mar 2017 #33
when topic on Serbian rights is opened

What rights were being denied in Split?
Crow 151 | 9,722
27 Mar 2017 #34
Split?

Oh, what you know about anything in the region?

We speak of region where in one decade people live as proud Catholic and in other, they are proud Orthodox. Then comes the Islam. Central Serbian state collapsed. But, all the time people is Serbian. Then comes the foreign influences. Attempts to form new nations around religious centers.

Split? Dalmatia? Adriatic? Always defended by Serbians. By Serbians won for Slavic world. It was never Croatian. Now is time of Croatia. Tomorrow? I already know. How I know? Because people from Split never sincerely felt to be same people, as people from Zagreb (real ethnic Croatia). They call them pejoratively `purgeri` (from German Bürger) what in its final extent refers to germanized nature of people in Zagreb and surrounding areas (real ethnic Croatia).

It is by foreign schemes that Split is now confused. German and Austrian manipulations (play on antagonism) with Catholicism against Orthodoxy. For now. So, it is glad to me that people in Dalmatia already awakening these days. Greater Croatia will be oblivion. What would then those who worked against Serbians? When we are back in our full strength? Nothing from Adriatic to Danube won`t be accomplished without Serbians. We are overlords and natives there. Its ours. Our lands from forefathers.
mafketis 29 | 10,297
27 Mar 2017 #35
Always defended by Serbians. By Serbians won for Slavic world. It was never Croatian

And that's how the wars started. Congratulations!
Crow 151 | 9,722
27 Mar 2017 #36
Among Slavic linguistic experts that spoke of Serbian language is prominent Slovakian expert Pavel Jozef Safarik and let me also just mention Slovenian expert Jernej Kopitar. They gave opinion that all what is Shtokavian dialect of South Slavic languages is Serbian language. Croatian language is of Chakavian dialect.

s

Speaking area of Serbian language in 1842, by Slovak Pavel Jozef Safarik (note: entire Dalmatia included)

And that's how the wars started. Congratulations!

No, we didn`t start them. They were imposed on us but still, thank you. Resistance was fearsome. Western and Eastern Romans, Republic of Venice, Italy, Austria, Turks. But, we won. Then, we were outplayed by the politics, intrigues and schemes. For now. But, as we see these days, both Catholic and Orthodox Serbs in Greater Croatia shows their existence. Even our Islamized brothers in Bosnia and Herzegovina in greater and greeter numbers shows sympathy with Christian Serbs.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,534
27 Mar 2017 #37
Because people from Split never sincerely felt to be same people, as people from Zagreb (real ethnic Croatia).

Kajkavian dialect or something is spoken by the people of Zagreb and further north, right? This dialect retained many West Slavic language features after these Slavic people of Panonia had been separated by Hungarian tribes from the Slavic mainland in the north. Unlike the Serbian language or the Dalmatian dialects, their own dialect was never influenced by the Turkish or the Italian language.
mafketis 29 | 10,297
27 Mar 2017 #38
Kajkavian dialect or something is spoken by the people of Zagreb and further north,

Standard Croatian is based on shtokavian and many Croats I know would not for a second accept it as "Serbian".

But Crow has an infantile mentality that cannot conceive of any other world view but his own (or simply ascribes any differing opinion from his as the dread German Anglo influence).

The idea that Croatians have their own story simply doesn't occur to him, it's all land to be reclaimed for Mother Serbia (again the infantile mentality that needs a mommy figure to please).
Crow 151 | 9,722
27 Mar 2017 #39
Standard Croatian is based on shtokavian and many Croats I know would not for a second accept it as "Serbian".

If they are from Zagreb, Krizveci or Varazdin, they are from real ethnic Croatia. Yes, even there Croats heavily mixed with Serbians, so that every single one of them in itself have more Serbian blood then he have Croat blood. But, now is the time that he deny that. Tomorrow he will eventually but, God forbid, we don`t need them.

But Crow has an infantile mentality that cannot conceive of any other world view but his own

No. Crow is an idiot sinner who giving best pearls to pig like you. Its a sin in itself.

The idea that Croatians have their own story simply doesn't occur to him, it's all land to be reclaimed for Mother Serbia (

Serbia never even got a chance. Dissolution of Yugoslavia was deal that needed to create Greater Croatia and Greater Albania. Rest is EU and NATO powers propaganda. It was never allowed to Serbians to unite their ethnic space. It is so because Serbs are stubborn Slavs. Its our punishment. So, it warms my heart to see that Catholic Serbians starting to rebel in what is now Greater Croatia. there is the God, after all.

Croats do have their story. They were small ethos between Slovenians and Serbians on one side and bordering with Austrians and Hungarians on the other side. When Turks arrived in Europe they were practically destroyed by Turkish incursions deeper in European inland. Then, their lords, in Austrian service, opened gates of their cities to the Serbians who fled from Turks and were able to offer so serious resistance. So, those Croats that still remained mixed with Serbians and accepted Serbian language like their own, abandoning Chakavian dialect what is their original speech. Today, in Zagroje you probably won`t found moire then 3.000 people who speak this dialect.

So, yes, Croats have their story. In real Croatia they are native people. Or they were natives there. You see, I do have understanding for desire of ethos to survive, even on the account of Serbians. As of Serbians didn`t pay similar price to Poles, to Russian, to Ukrainians. God knows ho many Serbs was assimilated living among fellow Slavs. So, its not the problem. It wouldn`t be problem if they wanted to assimilate number of Serbs who arrived in Croatia and even force them to speak Chakavian, in order to preserve Croatian ethos. No, it wasn`t that. Instead, their own elite, germanized, advised by Austrians, accepted Serbian language and sought opportunity to via that very same Serbian language spread its influence among all Serbian speaking people. Their first target were Catholic Serbs and then Orthodox Serbs. In their greed, using time when Serbians were weakened, pressured by the Turks and Austro-Hungaria, Croat elite started to spread influence on Dalmatia, Slavocnia, Krajina, etc, etc.

In a day before Austria annexed Dubrovnik, some 140 years ago, there was registered imagine, five (5) Catholic Croats (outsiders-, comers from Zagreb) as minor minority among rest of Catholic Serbian populace (Dubrovnik was never Orthodox- only part of Dalmatia that never was Orthodox, while rest was Eastern Roman influence; rest of Dalmatian Serbs gradually with time accepted Catholicism, forcible or by economic incentives, but genocide never happened in Dalmatia, even not in WWII, thanks to Italian and not Croatian occupation). Then, they after Austria annexed Dubrovnik, new Austrian administration registered all resistances as Croats. Serbians were erased. Yes, they sent their letters and complaints even to the Vatican but, help didn`t come. They were sold Catholics. Catholics that must stop to be Serbs and exist as Croats. It was the deal.

Kajkavian dialect or something is spoken by the people of Zagreb and further north, right?

Kajkavian is reason for another Croat dispute. This time with Catholic Slovenians. Kajkavian is by most prominent Slavic language experts dialect of Slovenian language. So, there, in Kajkavski speaking regions Croat elite tried to assimilate Slovenians.

Only Chakavian is Croatian language. Practically an extinct language.

Unlike the Serbian language or the Dalmatian dialects, their own dialect was never influenced by the Turkish or the Italian language.

Serbian language of Dalmatia was not influenced by the Turks but by the Italians, by Venetian Republic.
mafketis 29 | 10,297
28 Mar 2017 #40
Croats heavily mixed with Serbians, so that every single one of them in itself have more Serbian blood then he have Croat blood

There is no such thing as "Serbian blood".

Its a sin in itself.

Then go forth and sin no more!

So, yes, Croats have their story

And they get to decide about that, no you or any other Serbian.

FWIW I know one woman from Zagreb with a Croatian father and Serbian mother who culturally completely self-identifies as Croatian. This might partly be because remembers hiding in the basement while Serbs were bombing her neighborhood. What do Serbs have to offer her now except more violence?
Crow 151 | 9,722
28 Mar 2017 #41
What you talk is pure nonsense that follow mainstream media stance. Ignorance.

But, one is for sure. Its up to people to decide. If that left in them.
mafketis 29 | 10,297
28 Mar 2017 #42
pure nonsense

The Croation woman (and her Serbian mother) were pretty sure they were pure Serbian weaponry that they were hiding from.
Crow 151 | 9,722
28 Mar 2017 #43
Serbs were attacked and defended themselves from extremely pro-German, pro-Nazi and deeply anti-Serbian indoctrinated society. What would anybody expect? That people don`t defend themselves? Yes, Orthodox Serbs defended themselves.

Now, its on Catholic Serbs to defend themselves from that abnormal Croatian society. Rest of Serbs, if they can, would help.
Crnogorac3 2 | 477
31 Mar 2017 #44
youtube.com/watch?v=F7ml-O3cJpQ

ZVERINA feat. ŠKABO - ISTO / TAKÝ ISTÝ
Slovakian - Serbian song
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
31 Mar 2017 #45
Though I don't know any Slovak, I've been following this entire thread with some interest!

Any list out there of "false friends" between Polish and Slovak? I know about Czech, "szukać" vs. Polish "szukać" etc. Curious though as to whether there's a rough equivalent group between Slovak and Polish.

:-)
gregy741 4 | 1,204
31 Mar 2017 #46
i heard dziewczyna is divka in Czech.hahaha
mam pomysl -mam napad.
jez -pohodowy kaktus
zepsuty -poruhany
wiewiorka is drevni kocur.
narzeczona is produpnica.

hahaha there is more..its just hilarious
i been in Slovakia and i could understand quite easily if they speak slowly
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
31 Mar 2017 #47
Isn't that the truth??

Thing about related languages often is that one of the languages will sound like an "older" aka vestigial version of the other. Ukrainian tends to sound like "older Polish", so I'm told, or another example would be Romanian to a modern Italian speaker sounds almost ancient etc...

In some languages like Turkish, the more "native"/Turkic the speech, the more everyday sounding. Add Arabic loan equivalents from centuries past, though still extant, the language will tend to sound highbrow and above the ken of most commoners:-)

Is English really so different? If I want to communicate with the rank-and-file illierati, I'm not going to say "Masticate your victuals in succession!", a comical phrase full of Latin and Greek, instead, I'd say "Chew your food many times!", using good old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon for folks to understand!

lol
gregy741 4 | 1,204
31 Mar 2017 #48
Ukrainian tends to sound like "older Polish", so I'm told,

not really..not Ukrainian.
Bellarusian for sure..sounds like old medieval polish language.even in The Witcher 3 game,they used old bellarusian (well,ruthenian)songs
as for Czech and Slovaks..they sounds very funny for polish.dunno why,but the way they use it is just hilarious
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
31 Mar 2017 #49
A Ukrainian speaker once asked me how to say "govorit" in Polish, to which I replied "mówić". "Oh, but M - O - V - I - T in my language sounds like really old-fashioned book language!", she said smiling broadly. "We might understand, but nobody says it.", she added.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
31 Mar 2017 #50
A Ukrainian speaker once asked me how to say "govorit" in Polish, to which I replied "mówić".

to be honest ,yea there is old word for mowic in polish language,that sounds like ukrainian..its - gaworzyc.rarely used .so its other way round..we dont use "gavorit" version no more.lol

there are old connections in those languages,,not only from old slavonic but even from commonwealth time
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
31 Mar 2017 #51
"Pan", "pani" is normal in Czech, as in Polish, (just different pronunciation) but NOT in Ukrainian:-)
ender 5 | 398
31 Mar 2017 #52
Actually to really understand Polish grammar you need to learn Slovak language. By comparison of those two languages you will generally learn where to use ó rz and g. Although it's not practised in common pronunciation letter h should be pronounce hard (like in Arabic). Then we have slovakian hora toward polish góra, Praha - Praga. Horalka-Góralka. Rieka-Rzeka. I do have Slovakian friends and sorry to say but Polish language is tend to be stronger. They catch polish words pronounce them slovakian way to the point that I'm not sure if I'm so good in slovakian and they admit that when they talk to each other they put swap slovakian words to polish. It's bit a shame I find Polish language so complex that makes it unusable in everyday use and slovakian way quite refreshing when we add written polish it makes language impossible. Every Polish comment on Polish portals have fault. Soon or later we will have to deal with it and totally drop historical way of writing and drop use of double u (and ó) double ż (and rz) double ch (and h this suppose to sound different but we pronounce it same way) or return to old slavic way of speaking. I also think that we should follow Czechs and not Hungarian the way we write sz (š) and cz (č) it just efficient way of writing.
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
31 Mar 2017 #53
In Polish, the "g" appears in words like "głodny", "gołąb" etc.. which, for example in Czech might be written/spoken "holodny" and "holub".
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
31 Mar 2017 #54
I also think that we should follow Czechs and not Hungarian the way we write sz (š) and cz (č) it just efficient way of writing.

Absolutely, dropping sz, cz and rz (for š, č and ř respectively) makes a lot of sense. The problem is with dz, dź, dż - the B/C/M/S đ could be used for one of them, but it still leaves two awkward letters.
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
31 Mar 2017 #55
Tricky pronunciation for Hungarian speakers particularly, conversely for Poles, is the "SZ" vs. "S" issue. A Pole instinctively says "SHeged" rather than "Sseged" ("Szeged") and "Ssandor" (Sandor) instead of "SHandor" etc..

Czech and Slovak also have long or closed vowels, where modern Polish only has open or short ones.
mafketis 29 | 10,297
1 Apr 2017 #56
the "SZ" vs. "S" issue. A Pole instinctively says "SHeged" rather than "Sseged" ("Szeged") and "Ssandor" (Sandor) instead of "SHandor" etc..

Well the Hungarian s is closer to Polish ś so when Hungarians try to say proszę Poles hear prosię (piglet).

The problem pronouning Szeged in the Polish manner is that Hungarians hear "twoja dvpa" (your @ss) similarly the Hungarian toast egészségedre often sounds (when said by Poles) something like "to your entire @ss!" (do całej twojej dvpy)
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
1 Apr 2017 #57
.....which is because the toast phrase is written "Egeszegere!":-)

Nothing makes Hungarians laugh more than this deadly false friend, similar to entertainment for the Danes is listening to unsuspecting foreign visitors asking about "Koege" on a map of Denmark, or ordering "Roedgroede med floede" in a restaurant. Cracks 'em up every time!
mafketis 29 | 10,297
1 Apr 2017 #58
Egeszegere!

Actuall the that doesn't apply to the sz and s thing at all (since egeszseg 'health' has the ś/sz sound since the final s determines the sound of the sz before it) it's a vowel thing, Poles can't disitnguish the short (and lower) e from the long (and higher) one.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,032
1 Apr 2017 #59
"How well do Polish people understand Slovak?"...

Yet our very own linguistic experts argue over Hungarian..
Lyzko 32 | 7,918
2 Apr 2017 #60
Completely correct, Maf, which is why these two words give Hungarians such reason to guffaw so when foreigners such as we attempt to utter their "intractable" tongueLOL


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