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Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D


Magdalena 3 | 1,837
27 Feb 2010 #511
Czech: Prosim!

"Prosim" means "please" (as in "I request")

Thank you is "děkuji" :-)
Lyzko
27 Feb 2010 #512
Whoopsidaisy, Madziu! I really ought proofread my posts before sending them. However, 'dekuji' probably translates to "I thank", no?

-:)-:)
Mleko
27 Feb 2010 #513
I discovered that no polish people can correctly count:1 milk, 2 milks, 3 milks, 5 milks, 6 milks... etc

Ask different poles, they will tell you different answers... it is so funny :))

Lyzko
27 Feb 2010 #514
And this then spills over in English:

"In town where I born, there is much woods and mountain and countrysides in Poland. I work hard and have many job, so many work and few moneys....."
delphiandomine 86 | 18,269
27 Feb 2010 #515
I discovered that no polish people can correctly count:1 milk, 2 milks, 3 milks, 5 milks, 6 milks... etc

Riiight Mark.

It would seem that you can't count milk either ;)
marqoz - | 195
28 Feb 2010 #516
marqoz:
Hottentottenstottertrottelmutterbeutelrattenlattengitterkofferattentät er?
This doesn't mean anything at all.

You're right. I see you know German very well. It should be written according to some Germanists as:
Beutelrattenlattengitterkofferhottentottenstottertrottelmutterattentä ter

It's from Tuwim's book "Pegaz dęba" and is allegedly of Namibian origin, where you had had German-Hottentot cohabitation and means:

The killer of the Hottentot mother of a moron and stammerer, who was held in a weave box for kangaroos.
mafketis 24 | 8,939
28 Feb 2010 #517
no polish people can correctly count:1 milk, 2 milks

uh ..... who counts milk? other folks in your therapy group?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
28 Feb 2010 #518
you can, however, count radios.

5 radios anyone?
Olaf 6 | 956
28 Feb 2010 #519
You mean appliance? Radio reciever? Radio station? Channel? Because radio as is is hard to count.
mafketis 24 | 8,939
28 Feb 2010 #520
Piec radiów, what's the problem. The form pięc radio also exists but wouldn't be accepted by most authorities.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #521
I'd choose pięć radiów, mafketis :) It's the same as sześć jaj or sześć jajek, both are acceptable.
Olaf 6 | 956
28 Feb 2010 #522
If it's the same then would you say "pięć jajów" ???

Until quite recently you did not conjugate words like radio, kakao, studio, but a few years ago it evolved and now it is allowed. "Witamy w naszym studiu", "dziś w radiu", etc. So maybe pięć radii, huh? Anyway I don't see when you would say that? What does it mean? How can you count radio?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #523
Well, if you didn't have the systems that you have then you wouldn't have so many problems, would you? ;) ;) Miodek to the rescue :) :)

Sześć butelEK, sześć owiEC, sześć okiEN etc etc. You just have to know them. In English, it tends to be simpler. Most of the time, we just throw an 's' on to pluralise. Deer, sheep, mice etc etc are irregular.

I said it was the same in principle that you could have 2 versions. How could you possibly have misinterpreted that? If that can be the case for a Polish word, i.e jajko, then the mind boggles when you draft in foreign words where instinct and sound should play a part.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
28 Feb 2010 #524
Piec radiów, what's the problem.

Nonono. For some reason, "radio" is uncountable in Polish (sounds silly, but why is "furniture" uncountable in English?).

You can only count radio by pieces: jeden radioodbiornik (odbiornik radiowy), dwa radioodbiorniki, etc.
And yes, it is equally acceptable to say "w radio" or "w radiu".
I would strongly advise you not to try using declinated forms of "kakao" ;-)
As for milk, it's uncountable both in Polish and English. Of course, you can say "kup dwa mleka" in the sense of "dwa kartony / dwie butelki mleka", but that's very informal and not considered "good grammar".
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #525
For the same reason, Magda. We have pieces of furniture and it depends on the item in question. Five tables, five wardrobes etc etc. Why would you have furnitures when furniture is a collective noun? Would you say spaces rather than space? (I mean space as a concept of the cosmos). It just is space as it is just furniture.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
28 Feb 2010 #526
For the same reason, Magda.

My question was purely rhetorical ;-)
Exiled 2 | 425
28 Feb 2010 #527
Czech is more difficult than polish in my opinion because Czechs livedmainly in the cities while Poles were peasants.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #528
I thought as much, just checking :) ;) You are the translator, right? Sorry, there are no avatars. If there were/was, I'd know that it was you and that you were joking :)
z_darius 14 | 3,968
28 Feb 2010 #529
Would you say spaces rather than space? (I mean space as a concept of the cosmos)

Yes.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #530
Well good for you ;) ;) Post me your Canadian address and I'll forward your medal to you, ma man ;) ;) :) Dariusz, you are a smart lad so how about branching out this discussion? Some seem to want to apply logic and others accept what is understandable. Why are both 'jaj' and 'jajek' acceptable?

Well, I'm off for a wykałaczka (toothpick) (not łechtaczka, oops!) to clean the spaces between my teeth ;) ;)
z_darius 14 | 3,968
28 Feb 2010 #531
Well good for you ;) ;) Post me your Canadian address and I'll forward your medal to you, ma man ;) ;) :) Dariusz, you are a smart lad so how about branching out this discussion?

You asked a question about your own language (you teach English, don't you) so I provided a correct answer. So what's your problem?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #532
Space, the final frontier, these are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise' etc etc. I'm sure you are familiar with that line, Darek. In that way it is singular. They travel through Space, not like a driver who moves into spaces (plural)
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
28 Feb 2010 #533
You are the translator, right?

Yeah, I'm the poppy flower avatar girl :-)

because Czechs livedmainly in the cities while Poles were peasants.

As a Czech, I would ask you to reconsider your proposition. A little knowledge of the last 500 years of Czech history wouldn't go amiss if you wish to say anything on this subject ;-P
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #534
Aha, now I know :) Dariusz is no doubt brewing sth but it doesn't change the fact that we refer to Space as a single concept in terms of the cosmos. The final frontier, ONE frontier.
mafketis 24 | 8,939
28 Feb 2010 #535
How can you count radio?

In English,

radio, non-count = that which is broadast over the radio set
radio, count = electronic device used to listen to radio broadcasts

There's similar usage in Polish.

Nonono. For some reason, "radio" is uncountable in Polish (sounds silly, but why is "furniture" uncountable in English?).

Well, the sources I've seen suggest 'radioodbiornik' or 'odbiornik radiowy' for radio(set), but some people do use 'radio' for the object and suggest that 'radiów' is the preferred genetive plural.

One of my first experiences with the absurdity of Polish grammar was when I asked random Poles throughout the course of 2-3 days, how do you say "5 ears"?

I received 4 different answers to that question from I'd say 7-8 Poles.

You're taking away the wrong message here. The right message is that for forms that are very rare but theoretically possible Polish speakers can come up with more than one possible way that's clear and unambiguous. They are not necessarily sure about which one is approved of by grammar authorities, who might argue among themselves as well.

In other words, 4 different ways for describing a phenomenon that is not likely to ever be needed is not a sign of linguistic inefficiency or poverty. It is a sign of richness and flexibility.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
28 Feb 2010 #536
Space, the final frontier, these are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise' etc etc. I'm sure you are familiar with that line, Darek. In that way it is singular. They travel through Space, not like a driver who moves into spaces (plural)

I'm a little surprised that a native speaker of English can write such obvious garbage. Not trying to offend you, and I still consider your a good teacher of English. But remember this thread next time the talk about linguistic qualifications of Poles teaching English, compared to their British counterparts.

Would you say spaces rather than space? (I mean space as a concept of the cosmos)

Yes.

3. Cosmic Spaces and Coloring Axioms

A space is cosmic if it is the continuous image of a separable metric space X. Equivalently, X is cosmic if it has a countable network, i.e., a countable collection N of subsets of X such that if x ∈ U with U open, then x ∈ N ⊆ U for some N ∈ N.


source (page 91)
www1.elsevier.com/homepage/sac/opit/book.pdf

In fact "spaces" (plural) is used frequently in regards to cosmos. You just haven't come across that yet until today, have you?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #537
That's not a refutation at all. Parking spaces, dinner table spaces etc etc, many exist. What I'm saying is that Space is seen as a collective entity. You don't refer to the cosmos (Space) as the spaces or cosmoses, do you? The final frontier, ONE. It's that simple!! Not frontiers, but one last frontier.

I'm not talking about the spaces between friends here, I'm talking about a concrete area and noun.
mafketis 24 | 8,939
28 Feb 2010 #538
One problem is that there are many, many words in English that can be used as count or non-count with a large or small difference in meaning.

In the case of space:

space, count = a particular place, reserved for something; part of a surface marked off on more than one side; (more rearely) an item on a list

space, non-count = a) a dimension (not the right word, but close enough) b) the cosmos beyond the earths atmosphere
z_darius 14 | 3,968
28 Feb 2010 #539
What I'm saying is that Space is seen as a collective entity.

That would mean there is only one Space.
A lot of astronomers would disagree with you.

You don't refer to the cosmos (Space) as the spaces or cosmoses, do you?

The book quoted above does. And so do numerous scientists.

Life goes on. You need to keep up with your own language.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Feb 2010 #540
I'm aware that a lot of astronomers would try but that is another argument. Whether there are or not is a matter of conjecture.

John Gribbin may argue with Hawkings, they are experts in their field. As we know it now, there is just Space as referred to in Star Trek.

You are on a loser here Darek. I can give you many links that Space and The Cosmos are singular.


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