News / 2ND MIRACLE OF THE VISTULA: youth mysteriously appear out of nowhere! [231]

Ironside.... I did actually say independence of judges from politicians...To be honest 'independence' and 'accountability' go hand in hand. You say that judges select themselves in Poland and are beyond any control and accountability...could you just set out how they do this....If this is correct I would say it is commendable that changes need to be made, although I am still at a loss to agree that judges should be appointed by politicians and controlled by the same. Not a great way to promote democracy....As I already mentioned accountability of judges in the UK centres around being monitored by an independent body and use of transparent policies to weed out the poor performing or corrupt judges. With this form of regulation (accountability) it tightens and reduces the possibility of corruption.

Look further into Europe and you will find legal systems where the judges are routinely monitored and regulated by independent bodies...

News / 2ND MIRACLE OF THE VISTULA: youth mysteriously appear out of nowhere! [231]

gumishu.....


Actually I do live here and I am aware of the unfair rulings that you refer to.....apart from finding out why judges have the need to steal and give unfair rulings which is perhaps another discussion, there is a need to clean up this situation. To demonstrate impartiality the government need to look at the possibility of creating an independent commission or use a specialist police unit to investigate wrong doings, corruption and theft. (if this is already in existence then clearly they are not doing their job properly and need to be replaced) I would liaise with other European countries on tried and tested methods of dealing with corruption in the judiciary and share knowledge and resources to set up an effective unit. Until corruption/theft is resolved there will be little public confidence in the judiciary.

I am not sure that I would favour the public electing judges, and would rather see appointments made by, for example a judicial commission, some professionals, some lay members, specialists in law, a general mix.... all appointed through open and fair competition....With statutory powers the duties of the commission would be to select judges solely on merit, and select only those of good character....The National Judicial Council and other departments in the Polish judicial system all serve a useful purpose and may well be using the open and fair competition approach, but perhaps some now need to be revisited and new powers agreed and updated. It is of course almost 30 years since Poland regained its independence and we are of course discussing the most Important aspect of any democratic country....its legal system.

All this would take time but would in my view create a meaningful approach to deal with the problem of corruption etc. I get the Impression that it's a quick fix the PIS are looking for and one which would appear to be biased in favour of political gain and not one which offers a fair, impartial and effective solution.

News / 2ND MIRACLE OF THE VISTULA: youth mysteriously appear out of nowhere! [231]

Atch....


Then this is a great shame...and will only serve to delay progress needed to improve the economy, stability and reputation of Poland.....I will keep my fingers crossed....

News / 2ND MIRACLE OF THE VISTULA: youth mysteriously appear out of nowhere! [231]

gumishu....


Great.....was he prosecuted for theft.....or at the very least was he dismissed or disciplined.....? If not.....there lies the problem.....

News / 2ND MIRACLE OF THE VISTULA: youth mysteriously appear out of nowhere! [231]

Ironside......

Is this what you were referring to when you said that judges select themselves.....?

The National Judicial Council......A critical step in establishing the autonomy of the judicial branch was the Sejm's vote in December 1989 to create the National Judicial Council. The twenty-four member council, consisting of judges from the national, district, and local levels, serves a four-year term and has the primary function of recommending judgeship candidates to the president. Another basic function of the body is to oversee the entire judiciary and establish professional standards.

In the UK the body responsible for appointing judges is called the Judicial Appointments Commission.....They would both appear similar in composition although it would seem that the difference in the UK is that members of the commission are from many different legal backgrounds/specialisms and professions and politicians are not involved in influencing or controlling the behaviour of judges.

In view of the current proposal to address 'accountability' of judges is it really a smart move to allow politicians to control, oversee and pass judgement on judges. Do you not think that this is better carried out by professionals / lay members etc rather than politicians who come and go and whose job really should focus on politics and making Poland a better place to live. This of course does not appear very democratic and only serves to inflame the public who can smell a rat and will no doubt eventually use their right to vote in future elections.

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

Merged:

Ancient forest of Białowieża

It would seem that the EU are out to decide on what penalties/action to take against Poland for defying EU law by refusing to stop logging in the ancient forest of Białowieża. Whilst a decision has yet to be taken by the EU it still seems odd to me that the insect infested trees are being sold....would it not be safer (or dare I say it ethical) to burn the wood or do all these insects run/fly away whenever a tree is felled.....I doubt it. I have no knowledge of the insect world and effect on trees and even less on how to deal with infected trees but it just seems right to burn those that are infected to contain the problem....or is it a situation where the non affected parts of a tree are cut and sold separately....? It sort of smells a bit when people are making money out of such an important ancient forest which has been listed as a Unesco world heritage site. Any thoughts on this?

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

It really is incredible that the PIS can be allowed to get away with the felling and sale of so many trees in the ancient forest....it really is a grab and cash in situation which will of course deplete and ruin these magnificent forests....having read some of the previous postings on this subject it probably would be right to fell infected trees and just leave them in the forest for nature to take its course and to allow important animal life to continue living in this environment.... Maybe PIS could start producing some statistics on how many trees are infected, the extent of this problem, why it is necessary to cut down infected trees and why they have to sell infected trees....in this way the public may start to understand more of the problem and allow them to make their own minds up about the rights or wrongs of logging...at the moment the news just talks about the EU -v- Poland. PIS seem unable to put forward any credible defence save from the standard message.....insufficient detail....insufficient reasons...etc.....pretty poor show....

I would much rather see more transparent management of forests to deal with the continuing problem of rubbish which is allowed to accumulate in various parts of forests....which includes bottles, beer cans, paper, plastic bags etc etc.... I have no idea what people think about this problem....do locals care enough to do something about this...eg. speak to the relevant authority and get the rubbish removed...it is an eyesore....or why not go for the easy option and organise regular clear up operations using volunteers....and combine this by educating the public on the dangers of tipping rubbish in forests...national advertising etc. Tourists must be so disappointed and shocked to see the rubbish when they walk in the forests....this to my mind is a really important problem which can so easily be solved.....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

CasualObserver......thank you very much for your full and comprehensive explanation of the issues surrounding the Białowieża forest logging.....your comments were really helpful in understanding the bigger picture....this doesn't seem to be a vote winner for the PIS and unfortunately this will continue to erode all the good work done with funding of Polands infrastructure, education etc and potentially lead to reduced EU funding.....with the result that the Polish people will be the ones who suffer....what a tragedy...

Roger5....I Googled your suggestion and found a useful video which provides an interesting insight into the logging practices....

bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-41031299/will-fairy-tale-biaowiea-forest-survive-poland-s-fight-with-the-eu

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

Supporters of PIS turning a blind eye to the logging.......sounds like what happened with the concentration camps during WW2..people turning a blind eye, very easy, very convenient so long as I and my family are alright, short term planning...very stupid...it really is quite sad and disgusting that people can be so selfish and greedy...they really don't deserve to be allowed a vote in politics or really offer any view whatsoever because these supporters really are unable to appreciate the bigger picture....very narrow minded and selfish....how sad and what do the Polish youth see in this...what do they learn from this sad episode...what do they think....who knows.

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

G undercover......I have to say that I have never met you before and you clearly don't know me so calling me a leftie is really a weak response to a topic which worries you.....I think you probably know that the logging issue is wrong but just can't bring yourself to admit it.....sorry but you really need to look at the evidence....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

Ironside


Please just get your facts from the people who know...maybe try Unesco who I would guess have a reason for declaring the forest a world heritage site..It doesn't matter who did what to who and when....what's important is what is happening now and how wrong it all is.....basically illegal logging which is being sold off to various companies or whatever.....this nonsense of an excuse by Szyszko that it is now a health and safety issue for the public really smells of someone who is running scared and trying to justify his decision...he is just a politician who probably won't last for much longer...they are 10 a penny....what is more important is the long term position concerning the Belowieza forest and how it will continue to provide tourism with a real destination and special memories.....The law is quite simple and the EU will not leave this alone.....they will continue to debate Polands refusal to stop logging in a Unesco world heritage site.....once a tree is felled that's it....the tree no longer lives and any animals/insects will be disrupted....all this for the sake of money...how sad and narrow minded....not really the thoughts of a forward looking political party...more of thoughts of a dinosaur group of people who appear to have captured votes through issuing 500 zlotys every month to every family who has a second baby.....incredible....it is so transparent.....and fake....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

Ironside.....


I think the bottom line is that they are keen to continue logging for money in Białowieża Forest for as long as it takes or until the EU start imposing large fines on Poland for challenging existing law. I don't think that the PIS are so short sighted to allow the forest to become a meadow but will in time have sold enough of the trees for Szyszko, his friends in the forest industry and anyone else who will benefit, to line their pockets and prepare for retirement. PIS will pull out of this logging fiasco at a convenient moment to appease the voters and the EU. Of course by then extensive damage will have been caused to the forest. As for the idea that if they are just logging for money and could find the same trees in other parts of the state forest to cut down instead.....yes they could do that and probably do, but in addition to what they are already doing to Białowieża Forest....greed has no limits.

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

Braveheart16 - for Szyszko, his friends in the forest industry and anyone else who will benefit, to line their pockets and prepare for retirement.
Ironside -


I am not sure that the decision to cut down trees is actually 'owned' by the 'system of government' in Poland...it would seem to me to be more of a PIS initiative rather than PIS following some existing Polish statutory laws which give them the right to cut down trees in Białowieża Forest...be it infested trees or healthy ones and sell them on....The forest is special to many people in Poland and many others including the EU and UNESCO who continue to be concerned on the continuation of logging....If there are any laws in place which allow Polish governments to carry out logging in a World Heritage Site such as Białowieża Forest I would be interested to see them.

Beetle infestation is of course a serious issue but the method on how to deal with it needs to be discussed with professional bodies within Poland and outside (such as the EU...UNESCO...etc) who all have a vested interest to protect these special sites....it is not something which should be dealt with in isolation...As a member of the EU, Poland doesn't have the final say on such important and sensitive issues like this....

I presume it is ok to sell infested wood to others....or should these particular logs be burned......why not give away the healthy wood to people who would really benefit from some useful fuel.

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

CasualObserver....thank you very much for your insightful and helpful overview of the Bialowieza Forest problem. This is very useful for understanding the bigger picture and what is at stake which in the case of PIS appears to be money and helping forestry friends increase their income and retirement funds. Clearly those who benefit from this current logging crime are short sighted and fail to understand (or don't want to understand) the terminal effects of their work. It shows incredible disrespect to the Polish people who have been lied to time and time again as to the reasons for logging.....and of course the Polish people will ultimately be the ones who suffer....reduced prospects of work....etc. Luckily those that do know the real story behind this will continue to educate the ones who turn a blind eye to all that is going on.....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

I think that this is game, set and match on the question as to whether Poland has broken any laws.....quite simple really just read the links provided by 'CasualObserver' and this provides all the information needed to see what is happening and it shows that laws are being broken........its only taken hours of postings to get this point across....Now will this be enough or will it be necessary to get signed statements from news agencies, the EU or whoever to prove the information or are these links all false.........lets move on from acceptance that laws have been broken to what should be happening next.....

The logging problem really feels like the Wild West with people just doing what they like, breaking the law, destroying trees, assault on a cameraman (albeit an isolated incident but does show that the contractors know they are doing wrong and keen to keep the public away from the forest), giving out of false/misleading information, contempt for any opposition etc....the PIS really must think so little of the voting public that they can just steam roller through the illegal logging in the belief that everyone agrees with this....or perhaps expects the public to overlook what is happening in the forest on the basis of it being just a few trees and that there are more important things happening....eg. law and order changes....500zl payments....etc.... I don't think the voting public are that stupid and will make their own minds up when they see the terminal damage caused to the forest.....(providing of course that information on what is happening in the forest is made available to the public)....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

Dolnoslask.....


gumishu...


I think you both realise that the issues concerning the logging crime in the Białowieża forest are real and have been eloquently summarised by Casualobserver in numerous postings over the last few days.....bringing up other issues not related to this topic is just a distraction and would indeed seem to be a 'smoke and mirrors' situation which only serves to distort the real issues of what is happening in the Białowieża forest ...please 'man up' to accept the facts as they are and place trust in the scientists who know about these things rather than the politicians who wish they knew but use they position of power to do what they want....then we can move on.....just think of the good you could both do if you were to change your views...it really sounds like you are both PIS supporters but I am sure even if this were the case it wouldn't cloud your judgement.....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]


Not sure if any of your arguments are logical....you appear to fail to understand what is being said by others.....sometimes in life you come across such overwhelming evidence that you just have to accept the argument and move on. Whether you choose to do that is up to you of course....but with this sort of attitude your 'logic' just wouldn't lead to any progress in any shape or form.....you would just keep going round and round...delay after delay.....and the Polish people deserves better than this...they want to move on and get decisions made, be it on the logging crime in Bialowieza forest or all the other issues which face Poland today to help improve the economy and lifestyle of Poland.

I think that the reason why some posters on this site are becoming a little short with you is that you seem not to understand (or do not want to understand) the subtleties involved in dealing with beetle infestation and how important it is to accept EU law.....the consequence of this continued action by PIS in the forest is likely to result in costly fines, bad blood between EU and Poland, dissatisfied public, voters turning against PIS, reduction or withdrawal of EU funding...etc What a terrible example PIS has set with the logging crime...advocating greed and an attitude of doing what you like, disrespect of their EU partners....not a great way to educate children/young people for the future......and sadly not great for Poland.

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

Casualobserver....thanks for your comprehensive response....it would indeed be grave for Poland if they lost their FSC certification and be unable to sell any timber on the international market....this is my major worry, the fact that Poland will lose any credibility it had and on top of that lose contracts and future work...at the end of the day it will be the Polish people who will suffer and any hope that the economy will improve will again take many, many years to get any nearer to achieving...and Poland will continue to remain behind most of the economies in Europe, all as a result of stubbornness and this sort of unrealistic belief that Poland will achieve everything overnight.....its not going to happen with this approach, it just won't happen....Poland needs to embrace all aspects of a modern society and I feel that this includes just about everything which the public aspire to....if people want to continue debating, arguing, shouting, discussing every single issue to its nth degree and still not accept overwhelming evidence, then Poland will not benefit from any hope it had to improve the economy and the future for the Polish people.....it really is that simple.

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]


The trouble with you is that you give up too easily on what is currently happening in the forest and try to justify this opinion with progress in technology and the 'changing world' to be the reason for allowing an absolute treasure to go to the wall....You do seem to have a lot to say and I would suggest you think about challenging the people who are making money from the logging of infested and healthy trees and just see if you can change opinion for the better...ie to stop this logging crime. Yes this is the age of computers and satellites but there are many other more suitable issues in Poland which I am sure would benefit from a good shake up.....maybe healthcare, benefits, increased regulation of road users, infrastructure projects, reduction in bureaucracy etc......(but of course cutting down lots of trees is much easier than trying to improve the living conditions for the Polish...what a shame....)

The difference with what is becoming a major forest tragedy (and an economical/political problem for Poland) is that any solution is not suited to computers, satellites, laptops or whatever.....when dealing with nature, you really need to listen to the people who know about nature, forests and how it is all finely tuned etc, because at present the experts seem to outnumber those who support logging.....the forest is a jewel for the Polish people and it is very easy to say


because it will be too late, the damage will have been permanently done...no amount of tree planting will support this 'natural' forest....it will look nice with new saplings but not to the habitat who rely on a natural forest.....it will be like selling the crown jewels...all gone...too late to reverse the long term damage....just to satisfy people who are willing to take down countless trees to make quick money and prepare their retirement fund.....

..yes I doubt if the whole forest will be wiped out, but the point which has already been made is that the illegal logging taking place daily is eroding and disturbing the habitat....it is not just about trees....but the trees are the answer to natural maintenance of this treasure.....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]


This is quite telling on your opinion concerning logging.....Yes....you don't care much about the forest providing it creates incomes, wellbeing and firewood.....its just a few trees so cut them down and when the firewood runs out, cut some more trees down.....No disrespect to local people near the forest but it seems that to use this group of people as a reason for extensive logging is quite wrong.....

Surely there must be other ways to address peoples incomes and wellbeing without widescale logging....I think PIS really need to be a little more creative with their economic plans and find other ways to generate income for local people.(and the rest of the country) As for firewood.....there must be supplies of wood available from other 'managed' forests.....#


...yes....but there will come a time when tourism will drop and the locals will have no tourists to sell their handicrafts to......the bigger picture is the maintenance of the forest and as a consequence this will benefit locals........as for firewood...is it really necessary to cut down an ancient forest so that people can keep warm....please....there must be other avenues of heating homes.....

Food / Mushroom picking (and eating:) in Poland [36]

The information on mushrooms has been really interesting. However I am new to mushroom picking and love to eat mushrooms....I am just worried about making sure I am eating a healthy mushroom....I have seen so many traders selling mushrooms at my local market, particularly cepe mushrooms which really look good...

Is there a quick way to make sure that the mushrooms I see at the market are ok to cook and eat.....I often stop and look but hold back for fear that I may end up being poisoned...Perhaps I am being a little over cautious....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]


Making cheap shots...not really very mature....as a salesman is this the best you can do..?


Yes but the issue here is that the majority of scientists seem to disagree with what is going on with illegal logging of the forest....


Is this the best you can do....to 'question' whether CO has a PHD etc...you really must be desperate......does it really have to come down to 'mine is bigger than yours'...if you want to put forward an argument you should try to explain why you feel it is ok for the illegal logging to continue taking place in the B Forest.....and why it is right to blindly follow the PIS party line....(this should not be political but it seems to me that your opinion has been clouded by your support of PIS.....I think it would be better to distance yourself from your political views and look at what your views are ....not those of a political party.......

What CO has been posting are in my mind logical, intelligent and non political responses to the various points raised.....I think that you can see from the many postings from CO that he has clearly expressed his expertise on this topic concerning the B Forest.....you appear to be grasping at straws with your comments and slurs.....perhaps it's time to accept the facts that illegal logging is taking place in the B Forest and the fact that the EU will not be patient forever....you seem unable to accept that Poland is in the EU and must accept european law....this is not the wild West where you can do anything you like and refuse to comply etc....I know it's difficult for you to change but this is how it is....it's no good arguing and thinking it will all go away...it won't....the longer you and possibly many others continue to support the illegal logging the longer it will take you to realize that this is not a case of 'I am a PIS supporter and must support everything they do' but a crucial issue in supporting the protection of a forest which is of immense benefit to Poland. It is not about looking after the welfare of local people who rely on the forest to create handicrafts and wood for their heating....there are many ways to achieve this without cutting down trees from a protected forest.....just think....its not bad to admit you are wrong, in fact you will be richer for doing so and gain much respect....

this is not a political issue on behalf of PIS, it is in fact a common shared understanding of the need to maintain and protect a Polish treasure

News / Poland's deputy minister Szmit resigns due to fatal road accident statistics... [11]

I also think that another potential cause for accidents which could and probably does result in occasional deaths are the location of zebra crossings.....why are they positioned so close to road junctions? I have seen 4 zebra crossings at crossroads and time after time when cars stop for pedestrians (sometimes suddenly as pedestrians do not always give advance notice of crossing)....the said cars are half on the main road and half in the side road waiting, so any cars coming up behind have to stop suddenly but also other cars from other directions often have to stop because another car is wanting to turn down the same street or another street.....etc...which often blocks the whole junction on busy days and is a recipe for a serious accident if just one driver is not particularly focused. All of the stopping and starting takes place at the main junction where two roads cross each other and would be better if this takes place away from the junction and therefore reduce the number of drivers affected by a pedestrian crossing a particular road.

I think it would be a lot safer and improve traffic control if the zebra crossings were located further away from the main junction. (just a few more metres would do...or at least a car/long vehicle length) Pedestrians would only have to walk a few more metres to use the zebra crossing. This would allow drivers to stop for pedestrians further down the road minimising the potential for accidents and thus allow traffic flow without backing up .....zebra crossings are necessary but they are too close to the actual junction.....

Life / Health system in Poland one of the worst in Europe: report [78]

I think that regulation and accountability are the key words here to describe the hospital system....much like other topics in Poland, such as dangerous driving, burning coal etc.... I recently was referred to hospital by my doctor who was worried at the rate of my heart beat and blood pressure.....(I already have an irregular heart rhythm condition for which I have been taking tablets) .....I went to my local hospital in the evening and waited 2 hours to be seen...then examined and placed on a bed in the accident and emergency room....various tests were done and a nurse injected me with something....and had to wait until my heart rate and blood pressure were at a reasonable level....after about 1 hour the doctor said I could leave then prescribed some tablets to take....

My experience was not exactly reassuring but I must say the nurse was very helpful and was clearly busy with all the other patients.....The doctor didn't really seem to do a lot...and all in all I didn't feel very comfortable....when I got home my wife read up on the tablets and noticed that they should not be taken with other prescription tablets I have for my thyroid problem, and would likely cause a reaction of some sort......Naturally I wasn't too happy with this and stopped taking the tablets until I returned the following morning to see the cardiologist for the first time who turned up at some point and who asked my wife a few questions (she is Polish and I am British) and didn't look at me once during my consultation....Since then I have found another cardiologist elsewhere and he seems fine, but it is a real effort to get an appointment (or generally an instruction to turn up in the morning without a time) and there are always lots of patients waiting to see him.... This cardiologist has been professional and has generally provided a thorough approach to my problem. Since then I have had a further scan and was told that it would be best I have an operation to correct the heart beat....(electro something or other under general anaesthetic) I had this operation for the first time a few years ago and it seemed to have corrected my heart rhythm at that time.

My concern now is to find a good cardiology unit/hospital in or near to Krakow who will re-examine me and give me guidance on this operation and provide professional, thorough treatment and after care.

Work / Poland is not the best country to get part time job with study? [59]


If you don't speak Polish or Ukrainian, then no. Make your plans on the very safe assumption that you will never be able to earn a single penny during your stay in Poland. If you need to work to finance your studies or stay, then Poland is not the country for you.[/i]
I think it may be a good idea to ask the post whether he/she can speak Polish or Ukrainian and perhaps offer some support to his/her request......not sure why you are so abrasive to someone you have never met. Think you need to be a little more respectful to strangers who after studies, actually could have something to contribute to Poland's economy, because it may just be something which could eventually kick start the standard of living for many. I am sure you will agree that if you want to get on in life you need to speculate to accumulate, and moving abroad for many is the way forward. You may disagree but then we are all different and entitled to be heard and anybody is as equal as you when posting on this site.

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

I don't think it is a matter of Poland being lectured at, it is more of the fact that Poland is not complying with the agreements they signed up to when they joined the EU. The EU is a bit like a club, where there are rules and regulations and that members (such as Poland) must follow. Poland cannot just change the rules as they go along....there is a protocol to follow...rules.....

Poland has received substantial funding since joining the EU which is benefiting the economy. This is why the EU is seeking financial penalties against Poland, because Poland has been given chance after chance to sort the B. Forest problem out but have instead chosen to not comply with the rules...(Poland cannot change the rules to suit themselves, no matter how much they want to)....but no it would seem that logging the protected forest is more important that using their energy to improve the economy....

There seems very little discussion or new ideas to show that the government are really tackling unemployment, wages, living conditions, employment law etc, which really are the main issues here. It seems that the politicians don't have any original ideas at all and seem more than happy to persue and blindly support the logging of the B. Forest..... Yes, Poland could leave the EU but they need to remember that they will have to repay all the money back to the EU. What a waste of effort it has been in the last year or so.....when more constructive and practical issues could have been addressed rather than all this backwards and forwards....will they ....won't they......please just grow up and stop being greedy and leave the B. Forest alone...its quite simple for most people to understand...why can't the politicians?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


I think you will find that there will be rules/regulations in place to deal with Poland's refusal to comply with rules...and yes you may say that Poland invested the EU money wisely, but like a bank....the EU will be expecting to receive the money back at some time in the near future....if not...then the EU will take measures to retrieve the money from Poland....it doesn't matter how good Poland is at using the money, the EU will still want the money back....

It really doesn't matter about other countries like Hungary...who may sympathise with Poland, but really is not in a position to make a serious challenge to the EU. It just won't work.....Don't think that Poland will escape future financial penalties because of the B. Forest, because it is just a matter of time.....people need to wake up and realise how important it is to listen to the people who have helped Poland since they joined the EU. Some people appear to think that the EU can provide limitless supplies of cash....take the money and run type of approach...wake up and comply to the rules....then everyone will benefit and Poland will become stronger and wiser....don't waste this precious opportunity....

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]

When Poland joined the EU it signed up to the rules and regulations required from member states....its a bit like a club, where members have to comply with the rules....its really that simple......its no good constantly trying to bend or adapt the rules to suit your needs....there is a protocol to follow and if you don't then penalties will eventually happen. Poland bas been given chance after chance to stop the illegal logging (in the hope of eliminating some bug/insect....I don't think so...) Everyone can see through this façade, and to be honest the EU have been very patient..... Poland has received substantial funding over recent years and the economy has improved as a result.....Yes Poland could leave the EU but of course they will have to repay their loan back to the EU.

People condoning the logging of the B. Forest are very short sighted in my view and fail to see the bigger picture which is that there are many more important issues to be resolved in Poland than to make a few quick zloty's from selling wood....issues like pollution, jobs, employment law, increasing the level of wages, etc... Not only is the logging illegal but if this happens once, it will happen again and again whenever someone decides its a good time to kill beetles and of course make some more money at the same time....it is not sustainable.....the government should focus on issues which will improve the overall lifestyles of the Polish people not selecting logging which only serves a minority of people connected to logging and is very short term in its nature.

I think many Polish people know that it is clearly wrong for this logging to continue in a protected forest.....why don't the government understand?

Travel / Białowieża National Park in Poland [461]


I can understand that point of view, but laws, rules and regulations are made for a reason and can be changed or adapted in the normal course of government business....If of course the Polish people are unhappy with the laws/rules/regulations then then have the power of the vote, or complain to their political representative, not to try to adapt or bend the rules etc on 'a daily basis' as you say. This is not the wild west where anything goes, otherwise you have anarchy.....its quite straightforward really....you cannot just do what you like in life and expect to have a rewarding, satisfying and positive lifestyle, but what you will have is a demotivating, unsatisfied and negative population where people distrust each other and are all trying to out do each other at any cost, bending the rules and promoting an 'I'm all right Jack' attitude and sod the rest of you.

People may believe that bending the laws/rules etc is an acceptable approach to life but this behaviour will just continue to manifest and continue through the generations and inhibit any progress needed to improve the lifestyle of the Poles. Respect for the law is the way in which developed countries progress and Poland may not be quite there yet....lets hope that people start to understand that respect for the law is important for everyone to live in a happy and civilised society.

Turning a blind eye to the logging in the B. Forest is a good example of allowing an illegal activity to continue without any form of redress for the people who are guilty of allowing this to happen.