UK, Ireland / Polish city that's moved to Britain [120]

Anti-Polish stories from the British media shouldn't come as a surprise. It is a shame though that the graffiti and two drunks gave The Sun material to work with.

But does anyone have actual statistics to refute The Sun's claims of £ódź losing so many residents?

There have been other threads on PF in the past boasting of the good but unspecified works of the likes of John Godson who has represented £ódź for many years both in the city council and in the Sejm. But I haven't found anything yet to show that the population of £ódź has been growing, especially with young families, as a result.

Godson's wikipedia page indicates he has been busy furthering his studies and recently finished two doctorates at the University of Warsaw (political Science- 2011) and University of £ódź (Management- 2012).

It must be nice to have so much free time as a politician. Does anybody know how Godson's personal educational pursuits are going to directly and materially benefit the remaining residents of £ódź?

UK, Ireland / Polish city that's moved to Britain [120]


Here is a comparison:

Average day in Warsaw:



Average day in London:

Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]


That I cannot say with certainty. I only heard about blacks in some regions of America still using this convention in the modern era. However, there are links to the past which could make this possible since most if not all plantation owners in America's days of slavery had Anglo-Scots-Irish surnames. Britain was also heavily involved as a firm third leg of the slave triangle so Americans obviously continued to have contact with the British; therefore knowledge of their customs would have been maintained. Although Americans never were permitted to hold noble titles themselves it only stands to reason that British customs were adapted and passed down along generations of Americans with British roots or British contacts. Perhaps slave owning whites once made their slaves and servants address them with such titles and this may be why I also heard that some blacks do not approve of its use. Since the "n-word" survived I wouldn't be surprised if other cultural aspects of those shameful days are still around today.


I'll choose: (D) Stapleton needed the scent from an old boot to lure his hound.

Life / Polish patriotic tattoos [38]

This one had to hurt and cost a lot.



And one more with a WWII patriotic theme.

Kotwica Walcząca

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


The police in both Poland and Britain often wear yellow reflective vests when on duty in public even during daylight hours and when the weather is clear and visibility is good.

Polish policeman wearing a yellow reflective vest:



British policeman wearing a yellow reflective vest:

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


I don't see why. I merely juxtaposed two images of reality showing common uniform items worn by police engaging with members of the communities they serve.

Notice too the similar black visored cap styles worn by both police officers.


The Polish police use shotguns:





So do the British police:



So, you were saying?

Anyway, if you doubt the authenticity of the last photo then you can read more about here from a British rag:

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


Indeed. Not only are they both port and coastal nations with longstanding seafaring traditions but each have established networks of canals used for both inland commerce and tourism.

Polish Canals
British Canals

Courtesy: worldcanals

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


From a quick search it seems the Prussians were busy in their day doing the digging. This would make sense during the times of partition.

But alas, the Prussians are no more.

Still, old Blighty always talks about "Roman Britain", "Viking Britian", etc. and sees constructions and developments from those disparate eras as a series of strands woven in the tapestry of their nation today.

Regardless of who built them they weren't filled in with earth. They are still there and in use; some more so than others.

Many countries have canals and many fell into disuse when rail and road took over. But some canals have been reopened mainly for tourism but I understand there is interest in reusing canals for commerce to help reduce carbon emissions.

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


I would say Poland's seafaring traditions have spanned the globe over the ages.

Polish ships and crews were an integral part of the Allied effort during WWII:


Source: polishgreatness.blogspot.com/2012/05/battle-of-atlantic-part-1-terror-on.html

Not only has Poland been a shipbuilding nation but Poland is still an active competitor in the global shipping sector. One such Polish company is POLSTEAM.

polsteam.com/offer

Unfortunately the global travels of Poland's fishing fleet only comes to light in a bad news story:

community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19960616&slug=2334875 - Polish Trawler Found Illegally Fishing Off Alaska Is Seized

And although millions of Poles were never sailors they wouldn't have made it to the Americas and elsewhere during the 20th century and prior if they had a fear of the sea and setting foot on a ship.

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


Every nation is different and every nation evolves. You have to remember that Poland's current borders were settled only after WWII and even then the country was gripped by communist authoritarianism during a time of the need to rebuild. Poles have every right to self-identify how they want rather than seeing occupiers, partitioners and destroyers as just another part of history to be observed in a neutral way.

As far as Britain goes it is also consciously selective at times in the wording of its past. It will acknowledge there was a "Norman Britain" but the Normans spoke French and subsequently English kings married French royalty and aristocrats and in turn ruled over parts of France too. So why not talk about "French Britain"? Because after the Napoleonic wars it won't happen - ever.

Angles, Saxons and Jutes were from the lands now called Denmark and Germany? Why not "Danish Britain"? Even Shakespeare talked about Denmark. And why not "German Britain"? Well, perhaps we should ask a Windsor (nee Saxe-Coburg-Gotha) that question. Did you know that most British don't even comprehend that English is a Germanic language?

It seems the British are only willing to add a foreign cultural adjective to the word Britain if that foreign culture no longer exists.

Perhaps none of this matters anyway. With devolution, calls for independence and many British being displaced by immigrants from far beyond Europe it is unlikely there will even be a Britain in the future as we know it today. Britain will probably only be something that might be referred to in the history books and that's assuming the people in the future living in what was once Britain will be interested in learning about it and preserving its past. Most likely they won't.

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


There are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Poles and Polonia who now call Australia home.

Poles have had a presence in Australia for at least a century.

Australia's highest peak is named Mount Kosciuszko!



It's located in Kosciuszko National Park!



So with so much in common let Poles and Australians find peace and harmony here on PF:

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]

A very salient photo to this discussion. I hope they learn a lot from each other.

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]

When people hear the word Australia it is an absolute sure bet that 99.9% of people inside Australia and all around the globe do not have Antarctica come to mind. They simply don't.

Most governments around the world do not recognize Australia's claims in Antarctica. So that means the claims are meaningless and unenforceable.

Besides all that it is even the official position of government departments in Australia that Mount Kosciuszko is the tallest peak in the country of Australia:


Source: visitnsw.com/destinations/snowy-mountains/kosciuszko-national-park

Note from the bottom of the aforementioned website:


It is an act of desperate pedantic buffoonery to say that an offshore mountain on another continent which virtually nobody recognizes as belonging to Australia is actually the tallest peak in Australia.

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


Yes, it is. Really.

The link you provided clearly states for all to read that Mount Kosciuszko is on the top of "Australia's ten highest mountains"

Your argument is based on the very bottom of the page under the section "Highest mountains on external territories". That's right "External territories" which is why the Australian government didn't include any offshore mountains in the top ten list of Australia's highest mountains. Because any mountains outside the mainland don't count. They are on another continent and the claims aren't regarded as valid in the world anyway.

So thanks for helping with more official sources to reinforce the fact which I've been stating all along. You'll just have to go to bed angry knowing that the highest mountain in Australia is named after a Pole by another Pole.

Dobranoc!

Life / Poland's concord of cultures [86]


Yes it is. You said so yourself:


Indeed, your quote states that Mawson's Peak forms the summit of an active volcano called Big Ben. It is not a mountain. It is a peak on a volcano called Big Ben.

Mount Kosciuszko on the other hand is a mountain outright. It is not a volcano nor is it a peak on a volcano with a different name.

Thanks again for helping to reinforce the fact which I've been stating all along and which the Australian government proudly recognizes: Mount Kosciuszko is the highest mountain in all of Australia and therefore is also seen as the highest peak in and of itself in all of Australia.

The geography in these other unrecognized "external territories" is not relevant to the discussion.


I've already told you several times now that virtually no one in the international community recognizes territorial claims to the Antarctic even if those making the claims don't care what the rest of the international community thinks.

Heard Island is an uninhabited nature preserve over 4,000 KM southwest of Australia; it's a wild stretch of the imagination for you to say it is "your country". You never set foot on it and you never will.

Your outlandish beliefs are even more far flung and questionable than these same "external territories" you keep trying to introduce into this thread. It is abundantly clear that you resent the fact that Australia's highest mountain was named after a Pole and by another Pole.


Both Poles and the British are proud to show off their shared affinity for royalty:

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


Polish migration to the UK within the last decade represents a new phenomenon for the British. Sure people from other countries have settled there too. But you have to admit that the other large immigrant groups have come mainly from India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Jamaica, even Ireland, etc. all of which were thoroughly Anglicized thanks to the iron grip of British imperial rule over them in the past. So, not only do they already speak English (nowadays often better than the British themselves) but they are fully aware of British institutions and structures. In other words they know their place.

Furthermore, many are still active members of the Commonwealth of Nations. Any reverse migration from places like Australia, Canada, New Zealand or even America doesn't add any additional flavoring to the mix. Rather it is just adding more milk to the gruel.

If the British were truly proud of their supposed multicultural island then you would see more corresponding representation of it in places like Parliament; the courts; upper ranks of the military and police; managerial levels of finance, art, education, media, etc. But you don't.

You also wouldn't see organizations like the BNP and UKIP in existence nor would you see frequent anti-Polish sentiment expressed in the British media or by the British here on PF. But you do.

That's why Polish migration to the UK is truly a watershed moment for Britain.


Agreed.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


I hope so as well but history tells us it will take a very considerable amount of time to change some pretty entrenched and contemptuous attitudes in Britain. The reaction by the British at all levels of society towards arriving Poles has not been as hospital as some would prefer us to believe.

We all know by now that infamous moment when a pensioner and Labour supporter Gillian Duffy confronted former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown during a re-election campaign with the following tirade: "You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're ... but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?"

guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-gillian-duffy-transcript

A couple of things have always stood out for me. One was that the surname Duffy suggests an ethnic Irish origin. So whether this woman's own ancestors came from Ireland to Britain or she married into a family that did she really had no place to be criticizing others for doing the same. Another thing was her choice expression of asking where "these eastern Europeans" are "flocking from?" Flocking is a pattern of behavior exhibited by birds. There was nothing folksy about what she said. It is very evident that her words were intended to dehumanize those people with whom she cannot personally identify with on a cultural basis.

Of course Brown was later denounced when he was overheard confiding to an aide that he regarded Duffy's comments as bigoted. Her comments were indeed bigoted and Brown's tone of voice was understandably one of exasperation. Nevertheless he paid dearly for his honesty. The British electorate at that time were extremely disappointed with the Labour Party on a broad spectrum of issues of which immigration was only one. Labour didn't lose because Brown criticized a pensioner (n.b., except for their Queen the British do not have a reputation for showing respect or genuine decent care for the elderly in their society). The final straw was that Brown criticized her for being so strongly opposed to immigration which is what truly resonated with the rest of native Britain. Brown's support for immigration was what cost him the campaign.

Surprisingly even the Roman Catholic church in Britain has been critical of the presence of Poles: "The leader of the country's Roman Catholics has sparked a row by accusing immigrants of creating a separate church in Britain. Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the Archbishop of Westminster, urged the Polish community to do more to learn English and integrate into local parishes, claiming the Catholic Church in the UK was in danger of dividing along ethnic lines as the number of Polish-speaking churches rose."

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1573992/Catholic-leader-claims-Poles-could-split-Church.html

It seems very odd that someone in an institutional position like a Roman Catholic cardinal would take such a eyebrow raising stance towards Christian worshipping Poles but not other immigrant groups who I am sure conduct services in their own native languages as well.

Of course there are more instances of resistance and resentment towards Poles in the UK which I could add but I'll digress because the high profile examples I provided should demonstrate that Britain still needs to make much more significant progress of adapting itself to the presence of Poles in Britain if it is to live up to its own boasts of being a multicultural society.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


My understanding is that the RCC discontinued Latin services around the world because rather than being a unifying factor some internal agitators complained that it was a dead language which alienated "the faithful" because more and more worshippers did not understand it because (surprise, surprise) they weren't being taught it anymore in church run schools.

Britain often trails in the bottom ranks for multi-lingual countries. Therefore it would be a better idea for Britain to make Polish compulsory with full government funding in all its schools starting at the earliest level possible and continuing through to a person's teenage years.


We have often been reminded by other posters that Poland has historically been a multicultural society. I know I have shared this very interesting link before here on PF: commonwealth.pl

Today Poland has a vibrant and growing immigrant population and as an EU member many others are free to go to Poland too. Why more don't would need to be addressed in another thread.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


Perhaps if the British had ever set an example of this when they themselves migrated in their millions to other countries or when they ruled over them you would have a point. But they never did.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


What are you afraid of exactly?

My thread is about Polish migration to Britain and how as the original article I shared explained that this has helped the British to become directly exposed to another culture which they did not influence in the past. Poland is no longer just a remote non-English speaking country on the Continent which the British hear about occasionally in the news but pay no mind to. It is a highly civilized society with a very rich cultural history as well as being a modern democracy with a long history of valuing personal freedom.

If you followed the discussion alexnye complained that Poles do not integrate into British society and only learn enough to be self sufficient or claim benefits. I pointed out that if you look at the timeline of British history it is the British who have demonstrated time and time again on every continent their unwillingness to integrate into the native populations they encountered. Whether you like it or not that is simply the facts of history and the effects of it are still with us today.

Poles in Britain have a great deal to share and Poles will learn English if they don't know it already. But their shouldn't be an onus placed on them to downplay, hide or abandon their identity, language and heritage. With such a large presence of Poles in the UK it is the British who, as multiculturalists, should be taking steps to celebrate, adopt and preserve Polish ways.

UK, Ireland / Polonization of Britain - Tipping Point Confirmed in 2011 Census [97]


Poles who have been in the UK over the past 70 or 100 years were not significant in their numbers.

The Anglo chauvinist idea of integration (back then as well as today) is for immigrants not to speak their native language in public and no longer have access to facilities or communities to keep their traditions alive and passed along to the next generation. Integration also includes constant societal pressure on immigrants and their offspring to Anglicize their names to the fullest extent possible lest they continue to be denied opportunities to better jobs, promotions, fair terms on financial transactions, etc.


Poles live in cities and villages just like you do. They don't live in ghettos. If they are being marginalized in Britain then I wouldn't be surprised because of the reasons I listed above.


So? The same thing happens all around the world. Britain and Poland are part of the EU. That means free movement of labor for EU citizens. Millions of greying Brits throughout the UK retire and frequently move to spend their dying days on the south coast of Blighty as well as many other places abroad; particularly Spain. If Poles want to spend their working years in Britain and then move back to Poland or some place else that's their business not yours.

,coz,yeah,Britains streets are paved with Gold,right?[/quote]
Not paved with gold but certainly built off of slave labor and war bounty along with the agricultural and mineral exploitation from other countries. If you want to see stolen gold you may very well find it in the Bank of England or melted down into fine jewelry and religious objects in places of worship, museums, palaces and private homes throughout the UK.


What I have written and what you inferred are two very different things. Yes, British behavior in the past has been very ignoble and it comes as no surprise that you want to maintain the status quo of Johnny Foreigner being compelled to Anglicize. I already stated that the British have no track record of integrating into the foreign cultures they encountered. Rather they too establish their Little Englander communities and then displace and Anglicize indigenous cultures when they begin to expand. This has been going on for centuries right up to the present. It's high time the British show genuine respect for other cultures both within the UK and abroad. The large Polish community in Britain is a golden opportunity for the British to start showing civility and do whatever they can to learn from Poles and adopt and preserve their ways. Otherwise you and the likes of Gillian Duffy will just need to pack your bags and join your fellow Brits in Spain. And don't worry about having to learn any Spanish; your fellow expats get on absolutely fine there with their lazy tongues, imported British stodge, and unfettered access to all media back in the UK.


Britain already has a long history of carrying pogroms against Jews:

bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/history/pogromyork_1.shtml

"In 2006 the Jewish Community celebrated the 350th anniversary of its re-admission to England in 1656. The expulsion in 1290 came after a particularly intense sequence of pogroms - anti-Jewish massacres."

I don't see what point you are trying to make with this comment of yours as it has nothing to do with Poles past or present and is completely off-topic to this particular thread.

History / Is 5th partition of Poland possible? What kind? How? When? [73]


I think it is in the interest of the Polish government as well as investors to maintain integrity so that rights can be protected and laws enforced. But will the Polish government be more interested in protecting the rights of foreign investors or will it be an advocate for ensuring the rights of Polish citizens prevail in any land dealings?

Like the mass privatization in earlier decades of state-owned enterprises, the majority of the population will not see much if any windfall from the sale of Polish land to foreigners.

Investors only part with their money because they expect to get it back with profit.

Agricultural conglomerates may buy up much of the land and then in turn decimate small farmers in the market place.

Other investors may buy up the land to use it for development of housing, shopping centers, theme parks, etc. Such projects may seem to be geared to benefit surrounding populations. However, such structures are not made to last and more often than not have no uniqueness to them. Essentially, they become a form of blight and ruin the characteristic of the landscape which is traditionally much appreciated by hikers, tourists, photographers, historians, etc. Something most agree should be preserved for future generations to enjoy.

There is also the matter of mineral rights. Foreign investors may only want the land to get at what is underneath it. WIth today's mechanization very few local jobs would be created as a result and that's assuming foreign businesses wouldn't be bringing in their own labor from abroad. Again, the results of such extraction may leave behind more scars on the landscape and decades of pollution from disturbing the land which results in disruption and destruction of habitats of indigenous flora and fauna.

Depending on how laws are written Poles may see no financial benefit from outsiders exploiting the land but will be stuck with the cultural and ecological damage.

So another partition would most likely be latent compared to the ethno-political ones of the past.

Another partition may occur due to extreme environmental impacts. A person may or may not believe in "global warming" however no one can deny that climate change is a very real matter here on Earth. We know of the devastations caused by earthquakes, hurricanes and tsunamis. Although Poland may be geologically isolated from these particular threats an increase in frequency and severity of them elsewhere may make regions of the world unlivable and necessitate the mass movements of entire populations. This in turn would create further strains on local environments which could lead to further conflicts as nations fight to protect or claim ever dwindling resources to sustain life.

In the future Mother Nature may do a partitioning of Poland if indeed sea levels rise high enough to significantly or permanently devastate current population centers along the Baltic coast and inland waterways.

And perhaps this won't happen in our lifetime but another ice age event in Earth's climate cycle could very well extend far enough into Poland as it did millennia ago.

Travel / Starbucks in Poland? [149]

There is one in Warsaw.

starbucks.pl/store/68393

Krakow too.

starbucks.pl/store/19242

Plus Poznan.

starbucks.pl/store/18960

Who will stop this onslaught?

Travel / Castles and Palaces in Poland (with pictures) [154]

The one in Walewice is very stately as well.

And in true aristocratic fashion carries with it a Napoleonic scandal which resulted in a bastard child for the: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Walewska - Countess Walewska

Travel / Castles and Palaces in Poland (with pictures) [154]

From what I read she became pregnant in Vienna but had the child in Walewice.

I thought it was nice to have what seems to be happy ending whereby the offspring from the affair Alexandre Joseph "was legalised by the old count Athenasius and thus bore the name of the counts of Colonna-Walewski."

Language / Dupa - what a beautiful Polish word [103]

An older generation of Polonia in North America enjoyed buying all sorts of tat with the word to advertise their Polish pride to others.

Life / Do young Polish people believe in their religion and God? [155]


Religion is a personal matter. Most young people attend religious services ceremonies because they are compelled to by their parents and other adult figures in their communities. With that said I don't see that younger people in Asian, Middle Eastern or any country for that matter are necessarily "really believing".

These so-called religious societies have always had laws on the books regarding crime. I can't think of one that doesn't have a prison system. And in some of the most "really believing" societies the death penalty is still in place and often carried out for crimes which do not involve murder. In some instances the death penalty is carried out by a mob or in front of a baying crowd; yes, even today in the 21st century.

Faith does not equate to social harmony, stability or even shared prosperity.

In Western societies you see a growing prevalence of secularization not atheism. In Eastern cultures you still see the interference of religion in daily life and you can be certain many in those places would much prefer that religion's role was diminished but not eliminated. Religion can play a positive culture role for marking personal rites of passage in life like births, adulthood, weddings, death, etc. But practices which involve coercion (such as conversions, arranged marriages, etc.) or worse the mutilation of body parts must be banned by the state and enforced by the rule of law.

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]


I don't think many Brits care either way since millions have already left to start a new life and career abroad:

telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9819096/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html

Emigration: Two million quit Britain in 'talent drain'


I understand the position of the Conservative Party is to keep membership in the EU limited to it being a common marketplace rather than become a united country. With that in mind the British government will most likely want to continue to make immigration as easy as possible for non-UK residents of working age especially since those born in Britain are leaving in droves.

Obviously those Britons who are too poor or too talentless are the ones stranded behind in the UK and are the ones who most likely are doing all the moaning about motivated Poles who have arrived to take advantage of the opportunities opened up by the millions who left.