Ksysia
11 Mar 2010
History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]
I don't think that the forum Ukrainians understand that Poland is no threat to them.
The same as talking to BB on one occasion, I understand that you have a different point of view and different values. You subscribe to a nationalistic idea of pure nation. But you don't give the same to me. I have opinions. I subscribe to civillian idea of a state based on sitizenship. Res Publica Regni Poloniae, with a life long presidency called Kingship.
From your point of view, and I've given you tthat, you were fighting to separate us from you. From the nationalistic point of view, the blood lines of people who live in Ukraine and call themselves Ukrainian are local, therefore to you it means 'years of Ukraine'.
From my point of view, the Republic is a value in itself, and all the nations that form parts of it are citizens. (Yes, Jews, too). From my point of view, Tatars are not local - but they are citizens, so they are Poles. From that point of view, there are no thousands of years of Ukraine, but of Ukrainians. And Poles, and yes, there were German tribes, Celtic tribes, Goth tribes, you name it. Hungarians, wandering Scandinavians, etc, because we have no natural borders. And Germans were good citizens, good tradesmen.
So when I give you my understanding, I also tell you what my point of view is. I want your understanding. There was a common value that everybody except the Ukrainians and the Jews in Socialist Party fought for. It was the return of the Republican Kingdom (which Pilsudski, the old Socialist, illegally changed into a Democracy).
I believe that if your, Ukrainian, national process had taken part in a different time, you would be able to just sign out of the Union (not that we would be happy, we would have made obstacles, of course). But it was the war, and you were too savage to slow yourself down.
I don't think that the forum Ukrainians understand that Poland is no threat to them.
The same as talking to BB on one occasion, I understand that you have a different point of view and different values. You subscribe to a nationalistic idea of pure nation. But you don't give the same to me. I have opinions. I subscribe to civillian idea of a state based on sitizenship. Res Publica Regni Poloniae, with a life long presidency called Kingship.
From your point of view, and I've given you tthat, you were fighting to separate us from you. From the nationalistic point of view, the blood lines of people who live in Ukraine and call themselves Ukrainian are local, therefore to you it means 'years of Ukraine'.
From my point of view, the Republic is a value in itself, and all the nations that form parts of it are citizens. (Yes, Jews, too). From my point of view, Tatars are not local - but they are citizens, so they are Poles. From that point of view, there are no thousands of years of Ukraine, but of Ukrainians. And Poles, and yes, there were German tribes, Celtic tribes, Goth tribes, you name it. Hungarians, wandering Scandinavians, etc, because we have no natural borders. And Germans were good citizens, good tradesmen.
So when I give you my understanding, I also tell you what my point of view is. I want your understanding. There was a common value that everybody except the Ukrainians and the Jews in Socialist Party fought for. It was the return of the Republican Kingdom (which Pilsudski, the old Socialist, illegally changed into a Democracy).
I believe that if your, Ukrainian, national process had taken part in a different time, you would be able to just sign out of the Union (not that we would be happy, we would have made obstacles, of course). But it was the war, and you were too savage to slow yourself down.