Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


oh come on ... big, big statement ... surely not true? if so, i am like Einstein on coke ... which of course I am not ... is Polish SO hard? So what, it has cases? So what, the verb endings change? I did Latin ... now that WAS bloody hard ... like Lego, all the time ... any living language is a gift, because you can listen to it ... Polish isn't so bad. And the pronunciation is WAY easier than French, for an English tongue. Like a million times easier.


oh yes, I did German as well - and you are right - Polish again way easier. German was all bits stuck together (again, very Lego-like) (or much like the new Polo ...). And Polish easier to pronounce than German. For goodness' sake - a few consonant clusters, a couple of 'sh' sounds and everyone is having kittens ... what is this?? Polish is a perfectly reasonable language.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


You are totally 110% correct.

Life / Izabela? - Advice with Polish name for a girl [36]

The issue with Wiktoria is to me mostly that when your daughter is learning to spell, the 'W' in particular will conflict with English for her. IF she were being brought up in a bi-lingual household, this wouldn't be a problem. But she isn't.

It's only one letter, though. She'll just have to get used to it.

And I think 'Milena' (lovely name) is a different kettle of fish - because it isn't a Polish spelling of a name which is also English. Really, the only thing you are doing with 'Wiktoria' is spelling it differently.

Our daughter is called 'Mia' and we also get a lot of mispronunciation ... that isn't a big deal, though. Personally I think confusing your daughter with Polish spelling is more of a thing. I guess she'll work it out in the end, though. But people will call her 'Wicky' ...

Travel / Why does everyone seem to hate LOT Polish Airlines? [382]


me neither since I just book the seat and saunter past the cruel-eyed Poles to the front of the queue ... with my own happy-eyed Pole who says that Priorytet is the most important part of the booking ... and he is right, totally right.

Love is ... agreeing it is worth the 10 quid to walk past everyone else ; )

Love / Dating a Polish man - how to impress his mother? [51]

@rozumiemnic
Absolutely spot on.

Look, whatever you do will be not Polish, and therefore 'wrong'. Everything will be closely and critically observed. She may criticise and comment from Day 1, or take more time to get there, but get there she will. Don't try and impress her - what's the point? Waste of effort.

Just say: This is me. This is how I do things. Like it or hate it. Tough. He loves me.

She will probably respect you more for the above than any amount of special dishes and doilies on the table.

And never forget: she is a total cow, and perfectly upfront about that, and happy with herself. Never ever let yourself think otherwise.


No, they will be her grandchildren, and her main concern will be that they shouldn't be ruined and endangered by their non-Polish mother (i.e., you). She will be in her element as grandmother, and will not find it easy to keep her opinions to herself .. she will feel it her duty to speak up, for the children's sake. They will be fine: it is you who will suffer.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I am a woman, and have been pregnant three times, so I can tell you with absolute certainty that: abortion is not about what you do with your own body - it is about what you do with the tiny little body whose life has been entrusted to your protection while it has no chance of protecting itself.

Woman actually CAN'T choose what happens with their bodies - lots of things happen to women that they have no control whatsoever over. They menstruate. They give birth. Even pregnancy itself is a huge example of something taking place within the woman's body, and she is not in control of that process. Nor is she meant to be - it is a natural process.


And that is as huge a problem as the termination of a life. Everyone around her will suggest abortion as the sensible option, but then they will all go home to their warm beds and families. And she will be the one left with the responsibility, and grief for the rest of her life, of never having seen her child's face.

Abortion is the biggest maltreatment of women around that I can think of. A significant number of women, however well they hide it, are very seriously affected emotionally, and many have problems with anxiety and other disorders to the end of their lives as a result of having gone ahead with a termination.

This isn't a simple subject. The woman's role as a mother, protector and nurturer of life, is completely undermined and trashed by abortion. This doesn't only have a catastrophic effect on the child, but also on the mother - and she is the one who has to go on living.

It is an unjustifiable act of, to my mind, extraordinary double standards, and it will no doubt be outlawed in decades or centuries to come, and looked upon as the grossest barbarity.

And, to be fair to Catholicism, this is exactly how the Church views it. The 'liberals' will work it out one day.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


wow, you people are sick.


why bother to post if you are just going to repeat the standard non-thinking 'wisdom'?

I am sorry, but I think only those who have been pregnant, and have had children, and also had a pregnancy terminated, are qualified to speak here. An unborn child - well, ok - say an unborn human being, then - is not just a bundle of cells. Well, in that case, we are all just a bundle of cells - just a bigger bundle, and able to breathe on our own and not needing total protection in which to develop and grow, from those who have brought us into being.

I am not any kind of 'god-botherer', and my sense of what this is all about is only born out of experience. When a woman is pregnant, she immediately, and keenly, feels the role of protector. To undermine this is really a most disrespectful, and ultimately violent, act.

Think what you like. I know. It is like people who think they know what it is like to lose a parent when they still have theirs. People just don't know. Ignorance is bliss.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]



These things just aren't true.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


These women were giving their permission for something unnatural to be done to their bodies and unborn children, yes. Of course yes.

This whole discussion reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes to me. So much talk about labelling, about what a just-conceived child is or isn't, but the feeling as a person who goes through the process of abortion is quite simply that you have allowed someone to kill something. Very very simple, very stark, and very shocking. And before one has an abortion, there is a lot of talk about how the baby isn't a baby yet, etc etc, but that is all ... bollocks.

A sperm isn't a human life. An ovule isn't. But when they fuse, they suddenly become a life. From the very second they fuse, because from that moment the person is created.

If you have a tiny sapling in your garden, it is a fxxk of a lot easier to dig up and burn than a huge oak tree, but just because it's easier to do, does that make it OK? Do we say that because in the first few weeks of growth, a human life is tiny and easy enough to get rid of, that it is therefore OK to do that? This discussion is split between those who say yes, and those who stick their necks out and say no, even though it is easy to do, we should not allow ourselves to do this - we should not allow ourselves to dispose of human life in this way.

And actually, at 12 weeks, when abortions are frequently carried out, the heart has been beating for several weeks, the baby or whatever you want to call him or her is a boy or a girl, has features, fingers and toes, fingernails and toenails, can feel touch, has other senses, and is a miniature person, 5.4 cm long only, but a little person, folded within his or her mother, for protection. The extraordinary explosion of life, the swiftness with which two cells become millions, is such a force that by 3 months, an unbelievable development has taken place. And by 20 weeks, the baby is perfectly formed.

So you can pinpoint a moment when life begins: the moment of fusion of sperm and egg, when they cease to be ingredients, and become someone.

But you know, the development of the unborn child isn't really the question - the issue is one of protection, and responsibility. The unborn child, as has been said, cannot scream or shout or protect itself - only the mother can do that. And if the mother's natural sense to protect is undermined and compromised by encouragement to 'abort', then hell is come again, really.

And still nobody seems interested in the effects on the mother. The grief of not having seen your child's face ever is far worse that the grief of losing someone whose face you know - because at least in that situation, you have the comfort of memory, and of the knowledge that you were able to show that person your love.

If an institution such as the Catholic Church, or the Polish government, want to make abortion a big issue and advise against it, or even legislate against it, then all strength to them. It is this talk that a human life is not a life, which is the most damaging and perfidious. It is a life, but it is easy to get rid of. At least be honest about what you are doing.

If you said to pregnant women considering abortion, 'OK, this doesn't suit you, so we can kill the baby for you because it's still tiny' - that would be honest. But of course the numbers having abortion would drop ... so what would also drop? THE REVENUE FROM IT.

It's a money-making business, and totally without morality on the part of those carrying it out - believe me. I had experience of the 'British Pregnancy Advisory Service' - what a misnomer, and a scandal.

So don't you guys all come on here huffing and puffing about when life begins. The facts are obvious. Just be honest about this. It's about convenience, and money.

Thank you, by the way, to those men who seem to get it.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


wow no why should I be? It is assisted fertilisation - what is wrong with that? Fusion in utero, in vitro, wherever - still the joy of new life.

And for all those who will now say 'but you said unnatural is bad' - yes, it is bad when it means destroying life and undermining the integrity of the mother, but when it is to promote life and health, then good. Unnatural in itself isn't bad - just depends what the motivation/effects are of intervention.


No, you are misunderstanding me. I said that to use medication and/or surgery to remove an otherwise healthy, stable pregnancy was an unnatural act - perhaps more precise if I rephrase: an artificial intervention, designed to interrupt a natural process.

I agree that intervention to prevent disease or death is also artificial, but it is for good purpose. The debate here is how termination of a pregnancy, although physically possible, is for bad purpose. And my additional point was that in the act of interrupting this natural process of pregnancy, you leave the mother with anything up to severe problems in dealing with the shock.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Absolutely, but what concerns me is not the obvious coercion in to abortion that happens in some cases (the 'usun to, kurwa' school of support), but rather what we have in the UK, which is a not-so-subtle leaning in favour of abortion in a lot of cases of unmarried, younger women and pregnancy. Abortion, if the 'time isn't right', is suggested as the sensible alternative. If a young or unmarried woman goes to the doctor and says she finds herself unexpectedly pregnant, the doctor will say 'Have you decided whether or not to keep the baby?' ... which seems to me to be a question which immediately undermines the pregnancy and suggests that it is a decision still to be made.

I completely sympathise with those in a situation where it would be dangerous or involve awful hardship to have a child, such as when the pregnancy is as a result of rape, but I don't believe that just because you hadn't planned to have a child now, and would have to make changes in your life such as moving home or having less disposable income or being embarrassed to be an unmarried mother, are sufficient justification for terminating a pregnancy.

I suppose what I am saying is: abortion should be considered only in situations where to continue with the pregnancy would result in severe mental and/or physical damage to the mother - i.e., only in extreme situations. And what do you know, but the wording of the 1967 UK Abortion Act calls for two doctors to verify independently that this is an extreme case, and only allows legal abortion on the following grounds:

a)that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or

(b)that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or
(c)that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated; or

(d)that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.

Which is not how it is applied. So if Poland wants to make sure things are under better control, then that is good, surely?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I think that what the RCC is saying is that we should give life the chance to be created, and that if it manages to make it, we should cherish it.

To be honest, as a woman in a close relationship, I know damn well that we can make a child if we choose, and not if we don't choose. I am not fertile 30 days of the month ... we know automatically when we have the potential ... and if we don't want a baby, we control ourselves. That is the same for everyone. Being in touch with oneself is the way, and the RCC is I guess just saying that they have to support procreation, but they know that in reality, there is flexibility if we are only a little careful and mondre.

No?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Thank you.


I imagine their argument is that it is an artificial leg-up - an intervention - and they are against any intervention, as God is to make the choices. That isn't my position. I think anything we can do to help anything or anyone is cool, but that we have to be incredibly careful how we use that power ... ie, not to use it to threaten or destroy (fragile) life. We have to be very wise.

I am just a simple C. of E. girl, enjoying the legacy of Henry VIII ; ) ... I am not in any way Catholic, although I have to say that over the past few years, I have come to my own conclusions about certain things, and have some admiration for the Catholic Church in the way it will stand up for its rights, and convictions. I think abortion is ultimately a very wrong thing, and I know that the Church of England is so liberal and nice that it wouldn't condemn it, but that the Catholic Church, with its fire and brimstone, would. There is something to be said for that backbone.

But they have to carry through with their logic - so if meddling to remove pregnancies is wrong, then meddling to create them is also wrong.

Not being a Catholic, I have the benefit of being able to be more flexible ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Seriously - it is actually a question in their list of things to go through with a pregnant woman. I know because I have a friend who is a GP. They have to tick it off the list. 'Check patient is to proceed with pregnancy.' - then they have 'If Yes' and 'If No' paths to follow in terms of how they talk about the pregnancy and what they do next ...

So it isn't based on if they think there might be a problem - it is routine. A routine querying of whether to proceed.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Well, that is a bit sci-fi ... in a bad way (tanks of strangely-coloured liquid housing half-recognisable life forms, etc.) ... it is bad.
I thought they put some back in and kept the rest in the freezer. I don't think they should trash them, if that is what they do. It is all very tricky.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Well, I know for example that to rape is wrong. If a rapist tells me that he believes otherwise, I would feel that my belief should take precedence over his. Why? Because his involves violence and pain inflicted on others.

And my point is more subtle and delicate: I believe that women are not told the truth before abortion, and that therefore a lot suffer in a way that they shouldn't have to. So yes, I do think that my beliefs, born of experience, should be given more credence than those of women who have not yet had the experience. Make it a level playing field. Take two women of equal experience, and then say their views are equal.


With respect, are you a woman? Of course I know that the fertile period is more than a day. Of course I know that the body can ovulate almost on demand. But I also know that in an uneventful month, I can tell you with absolute accuracy exactly when I am fertile, and I am right (have checked it, with ovulation kits - I am always right). If a woman does not want to get pregnant, she should not have sex. Very simple.


So tell me, because I am very interested: how does a woman know, if she has never been pregnant and never had a child? And don't load it with 'put through' ...

And mental health issues mean a seriously undermined psychological balance, that leads to pathological disorders such as extreme anxiety, depression, etc. More women suffer this post-abortion than as a mother of a child. And how do we know if a woman is likely to suffer these issues if she has an abortion? Can she know? Should we not help her understand? We who know? Doesn't it work both ways? Shouldn't we be considering the risk to her of PUTTING HER THROUGH an abortion??

Sorry to sound heated, but really, some balance is needed here, in all of this.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

: )
And especially to me, as pretty much the sole female contributor of any substance ; )

I'm just a softie. Love babies and would never harm them, and know, from having been pregnant, that as soon as they are there, they are there, however tiny.

People leave us - they die. That is very harsh. But the balancing side is new life. It is what makes us feel ok, what helps us with the hard bits of life. So those tiny little flames of life - they are there to help us. I think. Feel. Not any belief system or religion - just my own conclusion.

Starter for ten:
Have you ever heard a mother say of her three-year-old 'God, I wish I'd known - I would definitely have aborted her?'
Have you ever heard a woman say 'God, I wish I'd known - I would never have had an abortion' ? ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Thank you. That is my entire point made.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


It is possible that the intense emotion they felt, felt like that.


Not far off. I have never really looked into it, but enough to understand that 12 weeks and under, surgical abortion, they inject Pygmy poison into the woman's stomach to open the cervix, then use a hook to rupture the pregnancy and then they suction everything out.

At later stages, babies are 'born' alive, and are killed once out. There is a practice of surgical scissors being used to mash the baby's skull and make it easier to get out. Honestly, I am not making this up. That nun wasn't so far off. Look it up, if you have the heart for it. I have never got past a couple of not-nice photos and the scissors fact. Didn't want to know more.


Don't assume that. The woman might not want to go through pregnancy to full term, delivery baby, hold and love for a second, then have it ripped away from her. Seems an easier option never to see the baby.


Which is fine, but as your whole point is how we should respect the individual woman's experience, not sure how you think it OK to make statements such as


Is that not you telling other women how they should - nay, can only - think and feel, based on your own, individual experience? Mine is different to yours. We might share the same sex, but we are very different. I am tuned to my body's reactions and what is going on. I swim every morning, and I can measure by my energy, mood and even how cold or otherwise the water feels, what stage I am at in the month. That is my experience. You can't tell me I am wrong. It's like me telling you you might think you speak English but in fact you speak Chinese. It is nonsense.

I am not lucky in this sensitivity - I just listen!


?
You have sex. You might get pregnant. You get pregnant. That is not unlucky. Unlucky is a bucket of concrete falls off some scaffolding on your head. Unlucky is you don't smoke and you get lung cancer. It is not that you have sex and you get pregnant.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Have you ever been pregnant?


You said it. I agree. 'Unlucky' my arse.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


What idiots say that? Presumably far easier to have a leg chopped off. My father had his chopped off, and he said it was a piece of cake.

Giving birth really is something that is an individual experience. I have given birth twice. First time a nightmare, second time I sang Onwards Christian Soldiers in my head (non-religiously - just for the beat), walked up and down, and gave birth in 7 minutes, standing up. It was good, OK, fine, something one could do again without being too much bothered by it. I guess that is how it is supposed to be.

And at the end I was plus gorgeous baby, rather than minus gangrenous leg.

Gabi Da Hun - does that mean you are German?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


No, that particular comment was about my own personal experience. The cold, hard fact that I can tell what my hormones are doing. I have the only measures that are available to me, such as how I feel.

I have said, several times, that contraception is incredibly easy - just DON'T HAVE SEX IF YOU DON'T WANT TO RISK GETTING PREGNANT.

Easy. A fact.

I was not advocating any rhythm method ... I was just saying that you were wrong when you said no woman can have any idea about when she is fertile.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


In which case, of course you're going to be pro-abortion. What you don't like about my comments, really, is that I have said pregnancy and children are good things, and you think they are bad, and the idea of getting pregnant by accident and then not being allowed an abortion is monstrous to you ... because then you would have to 'go through' pregnancy and childbirth, and have a child. OK. Now it makes sense. So yes, I can understand why you advocate 'personal choice is personal'. And of course I respect your position, but there are millions of women who feel quite differently to you, so important you make sure your personal choice is just for you. Trust me - who feel absolutely opposite to how you feel.

But everyone's comments here aren't about you, aren't personal - they are just about opinion and morality. When I say 'If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex' - I don't mean you personally, GDH, I mean 'one' - I am using the 'you' in an objective, unpersonal way - a general way.

The question of if someone had risky sex and got pregnant, should they be 'allowed' an abortion because they weren't responsible, they just took a chance - is a good one. Can you answer it?


Yep. This says it. It is this insidious normalisation that is baaaaad.


Yes, yes ... although very often the male partner has a say - freaking out and demanding the woman has an abortion ; )
But agree a million per cent that if he doesn't want an abortion, is a tricky tricky situation.
Nobody wants to force anybody into anything, but the disassociation of sex from procreation is sometimes a dangerous move - gets people into all sorts of trouble ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Liking.


Not liking.

I certainly haven't been trotting out any platitudes. It sounds to me like I'm about the only one on here with any real experience of abortion, and I can tell you, it is unnatural, and that is not an empty label.

It is impossible to come up with a correlative experience for a man, to that of a woman's experience of having her pregnancy medically terminated ... so not sure why I am wasting my breath.

Foreigner 4, this is not about orphanages. It is about responsibility, and the sanctity of life, and respect for women, actually. Where do you think abortion came from? For so many centuries, having a child out of wedlock was a social death sentence, and possibly a literal death sentence in some circumstances. So women in desperation turned to abortion. For damn sure there have also been a hell of a lot of guys who have got such women pregnant and who relied on the existence of abortion to save their skins ... regardless of the terrible process a woman would have to go through to abort.

But: and this is a very very important but: we do not now live in 1540. Or 16, 17 or 1840. We live in 2012. Woman in the societies we are talking about - particularly, in this instance, Poland - are not facing anything that could possibly be construed as even a similar hardship to women in the past. It just isn't on the same page. If a young woman in Poland today gets pregnant by mistake and is distressed about what will happen if she has the baby, then Poland should be looking to upping its support network for such girls, and getting rid of prejudice in society - not offering her an abortion.

It has all become too easy, Foreigner 4 - I think that is what some of us are trying to say. And the idea that a woman has some kind of right to abort, because it is her body, is, to my mind, flawed.

Two people have sex. Either they use contraception, or they wing it, or they use the patented Catholic method guaranteed to ensure pregnancy (withdrawal ; ). If the women gets pregnant, the unborn child belongs to both parents. So both should have a say. In particular, if he doesn't want an abortion, I personally think it would be too cruel to allow the woman to proceed with one. And I bet that in reality, when the baby was born, she would accept and love the baby. Women who haven't been pregnant and had a child really aren't qualified to speak definitively, because they haven't been in that situation. Let them live it, and then say.

We have to strike a balance between respecting the wishes of both parents, the obligation to protect the unborn child, and to support and encourage the mother in her role as just that - mother. For sure, one thing is true: once conception has occurred, nobody's life will be the same again.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Gabi, it seems to me you are talking mainly, in your discussion, about a minority of women who:

- Use belt and braces contraception, but for whom for some reason this doesn't work, and despite their best efforts, they get pregnant anyhow
and
- Who have a pathological fear of pregnancy and childbirth.

That is minority, when you combine the two factors. It sounds like you are talking about yourself. And maybe we are all talking about ourselves, but my point is that I have experienced termination of a pregnancy, and I have experienced pregnancy, childbirth and being a mother, and I know what it is to be a woman, what my job is, what I am made for, and where I fit - a role which I accept and embrace. And yes, I do feel that my opinion is an informed one, because of my experiences.

But the point you really, really miss is that nobody is telling anybody what do to here, but this ISN'T just about the woman who doesn't want to go through the natural process of having a child. This is about THE CHILD.

And this is about our responsibilities as fertile adults who choose to have sex, which however much we might try to divorce from its natural purpose, WILL result in pregnancy if it possibly can. Which will result in the existence of a child.

I think that women who feel as you do should consider sterilisation - surely that is the sensible option? But I am not saying what you should do - I am just expressing my opinion about people in that situation in general.

And as far as abortion is concerned, without doubt it involves terminating a tiny life, and I think some of our points here are just that the life should be respected, and if people have got pregnant by taking a risk, then they should not escape the consequences of their actions just because it's 'easy' to get out of, by hiding behind some nonsense about a woman being able to do what she wants with her body.


With respect, the evolution of one.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Sorry - did you miss the bit where I said I have experience termination of a pregnancy? I won't even say the word 'abortion' ... such is my abhorrence for it.

I didn't really want to spell it out, but if you want the story, can give you a summary. And I am the perfect example of a normal, happy, balanced young girl who underwent a termination as it was presented as the only sensible option by boyfriend, parents and the BPAS. The whole process was a catalogue of scandalous behaviour on the part of the BPAS in particular, and the result was devastating for myself, and for my unborn child, who was 'terminated'. As I say, can elaborate on the story, but had not really wanted to bring my own experience into it quite so explicitly.

But trust me, I know what I am talking about. My experience is in a different world to the safe and distant bleatings of Gabi. Unfortunately. I envy her innocence of the reality of this issue. Gabi: you are so, so lucky. Keep it that way.


No, I wouldn't accept it - I would consider it an ill-informed decision, and if I had the option, I would move to a different country. We can only live out our lives under the wing of one or other country and set of beliefs, but to be honest, I would feel happier in a country that saw termination of pregnancy as an extreme and undesirable option ... which, to be fair to the 1967 Abortion Act, is how it was intended to be in this country. And if I had an power in this country, I would insist upon only the proper application of the Act. I would come down like a tonne of bricks on organisations such as the BPAS. Interestingly, its Chairwoman is also a woman who has always known she wouldn't want children ... how great that she gets to spend her life making money out of taking this joy away from other women as well.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


The life support machine is supposed to be the mother. And as far as I'm concerned, it is ****** up to think otherwise. Similarly, to call an unborn child a thing and to suggest that it is not 'alive'. This discussion isn't entertaining any more ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Yes, and if they knew that there was no such option as abortion, I bet they'd be a damn sight more careful ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Completely agree.


Also agree. Would take it from a different angle, too - that a sane and moral society should support this role of women, and in every way it can, show respect for that role. So, a doctor asking a pregnant woman the unprompted question if she has 'made her decision' yet about whether to 'continue with the pregnancy' - is an example of breathtaking dysfunctionality in the society. Isn't it?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Thank you, thank you ... at last another woman who gets it, and is equally outraged. As we all should be (that is a meek and muted call to arms, I promise - I am not trying to dictate what anyone should do ; ). And I am only saying 'woman' because guys don't go through this - but a lot of guys in this discussion show far more humanity & understanding than some of the other women - not quite sure why the women are so in favour. I think it is the women who haven't had the experience ... and, e.g., someone with a pathological fear of childbirth wouldn't want their lifeline cut by abortion not being available ...


Yes. Shamelessly so. Unbelievably so.


Yes again. Big yes to coercion coming in many forms. This is a subtle business.


You're welcome. Not a great topic, really, but just seems that in such a discussion, there need to be some genuine examples.


Hear, hear.


Bravo again.


You said it.

But to get right back to topic ... are we then saying that the Catholic Church is good, and ok, to do all it can to put the brakes on this practice?