Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


Without looking at the original, I don't know. I'm pretty sure the law doesn't say that government authorities have to speak in however many languages and I would imagine having printed materials and some form letters in EU languages should be enough for 98 % or more of all cases, especially since IME the government doesn't care anymore about EU citizens living in Poland.

And, of course, it doesn't apply to non-EU citizens.

Life / Typical Examples of Polish Parking Entitlement (post yours) [57]

Polish people,

Cars,

Good manners.

Pick any two, it appears there's no way to get all three together at the same time.

Life / What is going on in Polish Music [128]

See and raise:
...

Life / What is going on in Polish Music [128]

Another Polish song I like a lot more than I probably should:

with lyrics:

Life / What is going on in Polish Music [128]

A song Polish people should like more than they do:



bonus: pre-fame Kayah, a backing vocalist at the time.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


Uh ...... you do realize the Consulate General of the Republic of Poland in Chicago is not an arm of the US government don't you? Don't you?

You also realize the main purpose of most consulates is providing services for citizens of the consulate's country who happen to be in the host country, don't you? Please, tell me, yes, for the love of God, PLEASE!!!! you know that and the above is just a very subtle joke...

Language / Can you recognise the nationality of foreign Polish speakers by their accent? [43]

I've been mistaken for Polish in short interactions (believe me, it doesn't last long). The longest that lasted was in an American consulate where the (Polish) person in charge mistook me for a Pole trying to get a visa instead of an American needing information for my visa to stay in Poland. I've usually been mistaken for German(?) or Czech(!) when they realize I'm not Polish. No one's ever realized I was American (with no Polish roots at all!) until I tell them. I don't have an American r at all in Polish and most of my mistakes are plausible and occasionally the kind that Polish people use. The biggest tipoff is my general inability to produce the Polish l in final position I usually say angiełski (in old-fashioned stage pronunciation). and I make my fair share of mistakes with sz ś (and other similar pairs so that I say I'm combin my hair when I mean I'm glad).

I've also been surprised how many (educated) Poles can tell where Polish people are from by their speech alone. The standard has almost completely replaced dialects. The most that most Polish people can discern is whether a speaker is from a city or the countryside IME.


Americans can't. The dialect situation is completely different and most Americans have trouble placing people by accent. One reason is the rise of the SAE "from nowhere" accent. But IME Americans fail in locating people by accent in all but the most exaggerated, stereotypical cases.

I'm hopeless with British accents, I can tell RP-ish (or Estuary) from other kinds, can vaguely tell the difference between Scotland and everything else and sometimes between Northern and Southern English but markers that are crystal clear for Brits mean nothing to me.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

You almost had me starting to write out an angry reply. Well played sir, well played indeed.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


I think it makes perfect sense. If you arrive in Poland and don't:

- know any Polish people willing to help you out by going to the office with you a time or two,

- have anyone from your workplace willing to do the same,

- have the resources to hire an interpreter.

- have a representative from a charitable organization to help you

then chances are there's no way they'll allow you to stay because you don't have a job or connections or resources. For someone like that, all they really need to do is hand them the wirtten form telling them to get out of the country (in whatever language, when I was still dealing with the foreigners office on a regular basis they had written materials in a couple dozen languages).

Food / Polish culinary dislikes [83]

I'm doomed to be forever misunderstood on this thread. I make a distinction between grilling which both Poles and Americans do (I think Poles generally do better) and BBQ which is different from grilling and which Americans do but Polish people don't.

I love BBQ of almost any kind (exception: awfu shredded stuff with mayonaise-y sauce in one of the Carolinas). In my experience Polish peole don't like BBQ much (I think the sauce is the deal breaker, whether the meat is cooked with it or it's applied separately).

Food / Where can I buy chickpeas in Poland? [10]

As a rule Polish people doesn't (sic) eat chickpeas or garbanzos (as I call them) very often.

You can sometimes find them in large supermarkets, or if you're in a large city they might have them at a Kuchnia Świata store or a specialty store specializing in middle eastern foods.

In Polish they are called : ciecierzyca (singular) ciecierzyce (plural)

Language / Usage rules of ł in the Polish language [30]

By who? That sounds very awkward and unidiomatic in English imo.

A term I've heard before (by linguists) is the "barred L". I prefer that since it describes the letter better (all letters are made with strokes).

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]

Well, nauczycielu, you and Harry seem made for each other.

In related news, Polish functionaries are not necessarily aware of all the technical details of the regulations they enforce and are _really_ not likely to react well to you trying to tell them what the law is, especially if you're not able to do so in the right way (which includes but is not limited to: in Polish).

Do what you want, but unless your Polish and people skills are up to snuff (wild guess: they aren't) you're in for a bunch o' hassles. Even if you can eventually get out of them they're liable to take up more time than you'd like.

Good luck.

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]


Take away the Harryhype (registered trademark) and the facts are these:

- a couple of years ago, an official or two of the Polish government made some unfortunate comments about possible policy towards medical treatment of foreigners

- nothing happened, no legislation was passed and this policy was never acted on.

I can handle that just fine thank you, you're the one with his knickers in a twist about it.

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]

I don't know about that. IME Germans expect residents to learn German, period. I knew someone who learned more German in 2 years in Berlin than in 5 in Poland, and he said that was because he had to, he got more language support in Poland than in Germany.

Also, IME Scandinavians expect long term residents to learn the local language and don't like those who don't. They might all speak English, but they do tht for their own reasons (which don't include relieving long term residents of the necessity to learn the local language).

Someone who's been stationed by an English speaking company and who socializes only with the expat crowd and co-workers might not find much pressure to assimilate, but who wants to live like that?

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]

I don't know how Poles define it, I think of it as any stay that's measured in months or years. After a few weeks you should be starting to learn. I've known foreigners who've become competent in everyday (more than everyday survival) Polish in 6 months or so (not devoting their whole time to it either). The endings were often mangled, but it was understandable and functional.

If you give it an honest effort it's not as difficult as its reputation suggests.

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]


What's wrong with expecting long term residents to learn Polish?

And I repeat, some government posturing (regretable as it may be) from over two years ago is not germaine to this discussion. Especially since, as you apparently now admit, it has never actually been acted on and there is no legislative basis to act upon it.

Why do you have to make up arguments?

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]


I'd like a site for this actually happening, I did look up the current (AFAIK) regulations and there's no mention of it.

There's a couple year old story up at that font of truth, the Daily Mail that talks about threats, but no concrete cases.

I googled for a few minutes without finding anything but couldn't find any trace of any real cases. At that point I assumed you'd just made it up and wouldn't mind if I let the matter drop. But now I won't. Please give me specifics of British citizens deported from Poland because of health reasons.

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]

Harry's version of logic: Because a few Polish traffic signs have been put up in areas in Britain with a lot of Polish speakers, eveyrone in Poland should be made to speak English with English speakers.

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]


Have you ever read about a Polish person saying they don't need to learn the language of countries they live in? Such people are heavily criticised in the Polish press and by their compatriots and none of them are proud of not learning the local language (the way I've encountered some Brits who are actually proud of not speaking Polish even after years of living here).

And again, why should Polish language policy be linked to British language policy?

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]


So ... Polish policy should be determined by British policy? I don't get it. Please explain what your point is.

Law / Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S [143]


Your Spanish must really suck donkeys. I've never had trouble getting people in Spain to speak Spanish (and my Spanish is really rusty and not a thing of beauty).


Note that Poland is not on said list. Long term residents in Poland need to learn Polish and speak it when appropriate and not expect their shortcomings to be catered to by everyone they encounter.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Don't blame linguists who perceive the value of creole languages, blame people like David Crystal and the "World Englishes" approach which I despise it for many reasons.

But then I'm actually against international use of English and the idea that everybody needs to learn it (which guarantees degraded standards). I'd much rather fewer people tried to learn it but those who did really respected it as a language and not a fashion accesory or job requirement.

Europe is actually almost entirely free of dystunctional language policies, which is one reason that there's more social mobility and generally high standards of living. The places that cling to colonial languages are the ones mired in perpetual poverty, not matter how many quaintly picturesque literary prizes a few authors manage to win.

Lastly, finding out that native speakers of a language you're learning speak differently (often radically so) than the contents of the courses or textbooks you've had is the normal state of affairs.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


I actually agree, I just that standards need to have some real organic local connection.

And Jamaican (or any creole) is more than slang or degraded. It just has different rules about verb agreement, tense and aspect. There's nothing to prevent people from using Jamaican grammar and speaking insightfully about politics or science except for bureaucratic tradition and pure prejudice.

Where you get the broken Engish is in ex-colonial societies with local languages that haven't been supplanted by English but where English is used in some public functions. That kind of English, spoken as an imperfectly acquired second language and only used at work or school can be pretty disheartening for native speakers. There are some very fluent speakers of English in those places, but it's not the norm.

Basically, in lots of socieites (most ex-colonies and some others) language policy is carefully chosen to minimize the possibility of social mobility.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


The native language (as in everyday spoken language) of Jamaica is Jamaican Creole, which is no more 'broken English' than Polish is 'broken Russian'. Unfortunately, the local administrative language in Jamaica is called English which guarantees that most of the local population will have minimal chance at social advancement as that requires mastery of a foreign language (without the recognition that it in fact is a foreign language).

Jamaican Creole is a lively, interesting and expressive language suppressed in favor of a pariticularly lifeless and boring interpretation of British English which is perceived as being more in line with the ruling classes ambitions (roughly : keep the rest of the population in their places).

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Georgina, Do the rest of the world a favor and stay in your own country and don't inflict your ignorance on the rest of the world.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

Chipmunk,

First rule of Poland. (actuall second, the first is 'rules are made to be broken') Anyway, don't take things personally. Polish manners are different from American practice (you seem American, I don't know if you are). Just because someone yells at you, doiesn't mean they don't/won't like you. Poles aren't much into suffering in silence. Speak up in whatever language you can.

(asking if people speak English is kind of insulting or rubbing salt in the wounds of those who don't since those who do speak English spend a lot of time trying to make the rest of their compatriots feel stupid - stop doing that, just ask what you want and if they can't find anyone who speaks english then shrug your shoulders and leave)

Second, it's very often impossible to be polite in two cultures at once. You can be polite in your native culture and (possibly) offend people here, or you can adapt to local practices while feeling rude. Your choice. Which is more important to you a) getting what you want b) being in the right according to your own culture's rules. Usually in Poland you're not going to have both.

Third, the nice think about my first point is you can yell back when you get frustrated and people won't get very upset (even if they return the yelling with more yelling). If anything they'll like you better as someone who stands their ground and doesn't give up (Polish people generally like determined people and don't have much use for wishy washy people).

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


not sure, according to my source, the Greek word can be transliterated cheimonas, with ch roughly as in German ich, ei = Polish i and accent on the o (written with omega instead of omicron). It's a masculine word.

for purposes of historical reconstruction, the n in zimno doesn't count as it's an adjective ending (not sure what if anything the n in the Greek example does).

I also notice Greek choma for ziemia, so there just might be a connection between initial Greek ch and Polish soft z or it could well be coincidence (I'd say it's a 50/50 chance either way).

News / Poland rejects H1N1 vaccine [28]

It's a good thing the Polish government rejected the phoney baloney vaccine. This is the first, and maybe only, time I've agreed with Kopacz.

globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16667

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

It might be if that's what people actually did. The 17 words for 'two' idea is based on formal prescriptive rules that almost no Polish speaker bothers following. In reality, most people drastically simplify the number system in various ways.

For years I didn't even try to inflect numbers (except for one, which is easy and two to a limited extent) beyond that I just used the nominative and ..... nobody every noticed.

This was partly an accidental strategy that came about after I noticed that most people couldn't answer questions I did have about number forms (or gave very different answers from each other).