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Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S


nauczyciel
20 Jan 2010 #1
hellooooo. So this morning at 830 i was driving along a street, 200m from my destination, and I was stopped by an undercover police car.

So i pulled over right away, and he pulled in behind me, came out asking me for all my documents for the car. I got them all out, and he was asking me for my passport repeatedly. Since I live here & have Karta Pobytu & evthg, i said i have it at home. I spoke in English with a few Polish words here and there. I know being confrontational will not help my position at all.

I asked him why he stopped me, and it turns out it was the window tint I have on my drivers and passenger door windows. I knew it was illegal beforehand, so I didn't put up any fight.

20 minutes later, he returned to my car, gave me my documents, but kept my car registration. He gave me a "pokwitowanie" (a piece of paper), told me to go to Urząd Miasta to get it back.

I asked him exactly what to do, and he said the typical (in Polish) "You're in Poland, you must speak Polish, yadayada". I said "I want to know what to do". I further said "you stopped me, you want to talk to me, and since you can't, call in a translator." That followed with "nie mój problemu do widzenia" and walked off.

In the following hours, I completed my errands and removed the tint, assuming that someone will want to see that i removed it, and went to Urząd Miasta to get my registration back. I got to talk to someone in English about this and he explained that the cop took it and will be checking it with Warsaw Treasury Offices (best translation he had). I can come back next week and get my book back.

I'm puzzled by this. Most police cars have computers/MDT/radio in them, and they can confirm the information on my documents with what is in the system. But why must he retain it for 7 days?

On the plus side, I was not issued a mandat or points (at this time, & probably not according to the Urząd Miasta guy)

Having an International Drivers Permit pays off!!
strzyga 2 | 993
20 Jan 2010 #2
Warsaw Treasury Offices

I guess he meant Urząd Skarbowy which is the tax office, is there anything they might want from you taxes wise?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
20 Jan 2010 #3
Well the cop was more or less right, he was acting in his authority, gave you essential information so you could retrieve your registration so whats the fuss about?

I'm puzzled by this. Most police cars have computers/MDT/radio in them, and they can confirm the information on my documents with what is in the system. But why must he retain it for 7 days?

Procedures, and no even in UK you have to wait in similar cases (though usually its 48 hrs).
time means 5 | 1,309
20 Jan 2010 #4
and no even in UK you have to wait in similar cases (though usually its 48 hrs).

I don't think so.
OP nauczyciel
20 Jan 2010 #5
in Canada, I've been pulled over numerous times in 25 years of driving and have been in cars that have been pulled over, and they do evthg in the police car, and I have never heard of taking your registration papers. They will take your license if you are impared tho'.

The Urząd Miasta guy also said that they need to "check the authenticity of the document" :S and the only place to do that is in Warsaw.?.? :S What a backward system. Oh well.... it keeps useless ppl working.
Lukasz K - | 103
21 Jan 2010 #6
I had similar situation in the summer - I was driving with my mother's car and was stopped for speeding (my fault) - when the police officer was checing the car's papers it turned out that my mother had forgotten about annual registration technical inspection (it was about three month after deadline) and policeman took the registration paper. The registration paper was send to Urząd Miasta but to pick it up I needed to do the inspection, take the paper from the inspection stating that everything is OK and then I could withdraw the registration document. But it took about two weeks before the document arrived from police to Urząd Miasta (I've been stopped near Szczytno and they had to send it to Warszawa but it was still very long).

So I advice you, after you have removed the tint to take some paper station that everything is correct according to registration laws.

Regards

Lukasz
dnz 17 | 710
21 Jan 2010 #7
I take it you was driving a polish car? I've had tints on most of my cars and never had any trouble anywhere. The police in poland are corrupt uneducated morons I've been asked for a bribe several times and on a few occasions when they've flagged me over to stop for no reason I just floor it. The police in Poland are not to be trusted at all they are just Kurwa boys with a badge.

as for the you are in poland you must speak polish its always handy to remind them how many idiots from pl live in the UK with no understanding of English.

God i'm starting to hate this place more and more by the day, Roll on Australia :)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
21 Jan 2010 #8
The Urząd Miasta guy also said that they need to "check the authenticity of the document" :S and the only place to do that is in Warsaw.?.? :S What a backward system.

To be fair, you're not an EU citizen, you're driving an illegal car - I would want to check the authenticity of the document too. Poland had/has huge problems with car theft, which is one of the reasons why you must carry the documents at all times. As an non-EU citizen, you're also inviting trouble by not carrying around your passport - and they would have been quite within their rights to detain you until your passport was produced.

Taking the registration document is actually very effective - if you try and leave the country without it, then the car would more than likely be seized on the spot if/when the vehicle registration documents were checked. Given that European standard practice is for documents to be carried when travelling in a foreign car (even in the UK) - it's quite sensible.

It's likely that it was sent to Warsaw because they're issued centrally - likewise with driving licences. For that reason, if there was doubts over the authenticity of the document, it's sensible to have the expertise in one place.

And hey, the inconvenience of having to retrieve the registration is a far more effective punishment than a laughably low fine.
dnz 17 | 710
21 Jan 2010 #9
expertise

What here? I havent seen any?
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
21 Jan 2010 #10
and no even in UK you have to wait in similar cases (though usually its 48 hrs).

All traffic cop cars in the UK are fitted with computers, and radios so they can check your details within 30seconds after the info has been given. They don't even need your license or insurance papers to check, just ur car reg.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
21 Jan 2010 #11
Which is how you get huge problems with the databases not being in sync - the police are automatically assuming that the database is right and the insurance documents are wrong.

(non-GB registered car owners need to carry all their documents on them at all times, incidentally - it's not a commonly known law. Even Northern Irish cars are classed as 'foreign')
time means 5 | 1,309
21 Jan 2010 #12
the police are automatically assuming that the database is right and the insurance documents are wrong.

Due to people buying insurance, getting the documents and then cancelling but keeping the documents. They will often phone up the respective insurance company and double check.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Jan 2010 #13
God i'm starting to hate this place more and more by the day, Roll on Australia :)

Amen to that, its like how much misery can one person take. This place really grinds you down.

Which is how you get huge problems with the databases not being in sync - the police are automatically assuming that the database is right and the insurance documents are wrong.

Thats why we have guys getting paid thousands to make sure they are correct, anyone can come up with a rediculous excuse like that, are you saying the Polish system is better? i dont understand.
dnz 17 | 710
21 Jan 2010 #14
Which is how you get huge problems with the databases not being in sync - the police are automatically assuming that the database is right and the insurance documents are wrong.

The ANPR system in the UK is nearly 100% foolproof All MOTs are computerised from the exact second the test certificate is printed and handed to the customer, Insurance is updated on to the MID system instantly and the road tax is also, The UK system which allows drivers to not have to carry their documents is a much better system than any I have ever experienced, Having to carry your log book, insurance documents etc everywhere is simply barbaric and encourages car crime.

Often if a car pings an ANPR camera and shows as not insured they will telephone the insurer to find out what the problem is and thats done on the spot.

I don't agree with road tax though but then I guess its a necessary evil and I would much rather pay £100 a year and have good roads like the UK (albeit with roadworks every 200 yards) that roads like the ones here in Poland.

Anyway the ANPR system isn't foolproof but i've never heard of anyone pinging up on a camera who was 100% legal.
pawian 200 | 21,578
21 Jan 2010 #15
The procedure is as follows. The police send all seized registration papers to the Council Office, Urząd Miasta. The driver has to pay a visit to one of technical check-up stations and have a check up of the car, usually paid. With a piece of stamped paper from a check station, you go to Council Office and retrieve your papers.

It worked this way in my case, once my papers were seized when the police noticed the broken shield screen. I had delayed with changing it because I was planning to sell the car anyway. I was unlucky.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
21 Jan 2010 #16
Everybody knows that bureaucracy in Poland is more crazy than in 99% of other countries.
OP nauczyciel
21 Jan 2010 #17
To be fair, you're not an EU citizen, you're driving an illegal car - I would want to check the authenticity of the document too. Poland had/has huge problems with car theft, which is one of the reasons why you must carry the documents at all times.

so you know everything right? well.... you're wrong. Car> Polish bought in full with PLN, Polish registered. Me> not EU citizen. I never carry my passport with me unless I know i will need it. Where in PL/EU law does it say that one must carry their passport with them everywhere, all the time? I've got a KP which I produced. If they want me to produce my passport, they'd have to drive me to my flat to get it.

Soooo how is not carrying my PP "inviting trouble"? Is there some magic sign invisible to me but only govt officials can see it and it says " hey look at me...i don't have my PP with me at this moment and I'm inviting trouble to me"? get a grip :/

thanks for your help others! :)
1jola 14 | 1,879
21 Jan 2010 #18
And they could have just given you a warning and a little talk about tinted windows. Pricks.
dnz 17 | 710
21 Jan 2010 #19
Just out of interest what level of tint did you have on your windows?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
21 Jan 2010 #20
so you know everything right? well.... you're wrong.

Really?

Car> Polish bought in full with PLN, Polish registered.

Doesn't matter how it was bought. The point is that a non-EU citizen driving around in a car with illegally tinted windows is enough to arouse some degree of suspicion as to what he's doing. Certainly, if the car wasn't compliant with Polish law, then it seems fair to insist that the car needs to be checked in order to ensure its compliance with Polish law.

And certainly, if someone started talking about how they paid for their car in cash in Poland, I'd definitely be wanting to investigate the authenticity of the documents.

Me> not EU citizen. I never carry my passport with me unless I know i will need it. Where in PL/EU law does it say that one must carry their passport with them everywhere, all the time?

It's in Polish law that you have to be able to identify yourself to the police if requested to do so.

fidis.net/interactive/wiki-on-id-related-law/wiki/Poland%20C1.%20Show%20ID%20-%20Criminal%20Law/

It's also within the provisions of Schengen that border control may be carried out anywhere at any time within the Schengen zone. If the police had decided to consult SISone4ALL - then without your passport, they would have been quite within their right to detain you pending the presentation of a valid identification document which proves your right to be in the Schengen zone. A Karta Pobytu is not a valid EU travel document - it's only valid in conjunction with a passport.

Soooo how is not carrying my PP "inviting trouble"? Is there some magic sign invisible to me but only govt officials can see it and it says " hey look at me...i don't have my PP with me at this moment and I'm inviting trouble to me"? get a grip :/

Given that you're subject to immigration control (the Karta Pobytu doesn't exempt you from this) - you are inviting trouble without carrying an valid identification document. As I said, Schengen law allows border checks anywhere at any time - and European police forces (if they can be bothered) will usually query the Schengen database at the same time as making a stop - which is why they wanted your passport.

Everybody knows that bureaucracy in Poland is more crazy than in 99% of other countries.

The grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it?

Spanish bureaucracy can be a nightmare - ask any truck driver what they think of the authorities that check trucks. The Polish truck checking authorities are a dream in comparison, apparently. The Guardia Civil has been notorious for years now for fining Brits for petty offences too.

And don't even get me started on the inaccessibility of British bureaucracy - in Poland, I can go to the tax office and get a clear answer there and then. In the UK? Forget it.

Anyway, I fail to see what the problem is with causing inconvenience to a criminal. Certainly seems to be a far better punishment, forcing them to go through bureaucracy to get their registration documents back. It's no different to the UK punishment of getting people to go to the police station to produce their documents within 7 days - it's a pain in the ass, but far more effective than a fine.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
21 Jan 2010 #21
Procedures, and no even in UK you have to wait in similar cases (though usually its 48 hrs).

They radio your details through and do a PNC check. If you dont have your papers with you you have to "produce" at your local station, they DO NOT take your papers off you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_National_Computer

I knew it was illegal beforehand

Then you're a tit for driving with an illegal tint.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
21 Jan 2010 #22
They radio you details through and do a PNC check. If you dont have your papers with you you have to "produce" at your local station, they DO NOT take your papers off you.

Unless I'm totally wrong, isn't the same idea in effect, that you have to remove the offending thing (tint in this case) and then show it to the police? It wouldn't actually be a bad idea to demand that people got a fresh MOT - if someone is driving about with illegal equipment, what else might be dodgy?

Then you're a tit for driving with an illegal tint.

Bloody hell....are we agreeing?
Honest George 1 | 105
22 Jan 2010 #23
which is why they wanted your passport.

I,m not 100 % on this, but I heard of cases where photo-copies of your passport were acceptable. ( as its identifying who you are ).

Just curious how the Polish police would deal with such a situation.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
22 Jan 2010 #24
Unless I'm totally wrong, isn't the same idea in effect, that you have to remove the offending thing (tint in this case) and then show it to the police? It wouldn't actually be a bad idea to demand that people got a fresh MOT - if someone is driving about with illegal equipment, what else might be dodgy?

It's a fixed pentalty in the UK, with a stiff warning if caught again, points will be added to your licence (just to make it clear I dont know any knobs that drive cars that have tints, I have friends on the force who laugh at these people!)

Bloody hell....are we agreeing?

It was inevitable..
dnz 17 | 710
22 Jan 2010 #25
Whats wrong with tints? As long as you don't take the **** they are fine and an excellent security feature and also prevent glass hitting the occupants in the event of an accident, I've always had them fitted to keep the car cooler in the summer and to preserve the interior from fading and the leather from cracking.
Harry
22 Jan 2010 #26
Amathyst:
Then you're a tit for driving with an illegal tint.

Bloody hell....are we agreeing?

I'm with you both 100% on this one. Anybody who drives a car which they know is illegal and then whines about what the police do is a prize prat.

Whats wrong with tints?

The most important feature of a window is that it allows people to see what is on the other side of it. Anybody who is willing to risk other people's lives because they want to look cool is an utter prick.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Jan 2010 #27
I,m not 100 % on this, but I heard of cases where photo-copies of your passport were acceptable. ( as its identifying who you are ).

I think they're quite pragmatic about it - if you're clearly British or Irish (and white!) - then a driving licence is more than enough. But if you're a non-EU citizen, you have to expect hassle from the police if you don't have your passport on you - it's no different than in many other countries. And certainly anyone non-white should always, always carry valid ID in Poland.

Whats wrong with tints? As long as you don't take the **** they are fine and an excellent security feature and also prevent glass hitting the occupants in the event of an accident, I've always had them fitted to keep the car cooler in the summer and to preserve the interior from fading and the leather from cracking.

Nothing wrong with legal tints, as you say, they do serve a purpose. Aren't they becoming somewhat standard these days anyway? I know little about them, but apparently most new cars are coming with almost-illegal amounts of tint as standard...

I'm with you both 100% on this one. Anybody who drives a car which they know is illegal and then whines about what the police do is a prize prat.

He should be thankful that the police didn't take it personally! I'm surprised they didn't push the passport thing further to be honest, especially if he was clearly not an EU citizen.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
22 Jan 2010 #28
I'm surprised they didn't push the passport thing further to be honest, especially if he was clearly not an EU citizen.

I am half Czech, and though living in Poland, I was a Czech citizen for most of my life. So I had a Karta stałego pobytu, and I do remember that it

1) did not include my photograph, and
2) clearly stated that it was only valid together with my passport.

So yes, as many of you say, carrying your passport with you is more or less necessary for ID purposes in this case.
paskuda
23 Jan 2010 #29
"You're in Poland, you must speak Polish, yadayada".

Learn Polish.
da lat
23 Jan 2010 #30
i think it would be better for everyone concerned if the polish learnt to speak english

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