History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

I see that for some individuals the truth is apparently, like Paulina said, too hurtful yet. Anyway,that's for tomorrow.


No. It's about you turning things around. The question at stake is about the Kielce pogrom and whether Poles are ready to admit that they were wrong back then. Apparently, with due exceptions, some are not. The question is not if Jews brought it on themselves. That's a topic for later discussion. Right now the main question is whether the Poles are ready to accept and admit Kielce and also admit that there are dark periods in their history that have no connection to commies or whoever. Those are the questions at stake here. Not anything else. We can discuss that at some other point. Right now, it's admittance.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Oh, I don't have any hatred. Au contraire, most hatred seems to be coming from you and your brothers in arms to tell that dirty lying Jew the truth, how the hell does he try to doubt the holy words of Glorious Poles when they Gloriously deny obvious facts?

I didn't want him to die, I just said it'll be his biggest effort to mankind if he someday would. That's sth different, but of course you wouldn't understand it as you obviously didn't understand what this thread was all about anyway.

Edit: let's not forget that this thread is where it is because YOU didn't understand what an illustration is and started screaming blue murder and anti Polish again. Just read it back and see who brought it here. It wasn't me, I was just explaining sth to sb else until you barged in. Just read it back.

Your problem is that you're first of all an American, not a Pole, secondly you're an anti semite, which has been coming clear throughout your posts and I don't feel like answering nor reading the same bullcrap you post over and over again of how the Poles have been good to Jews some 1000 years ago and that the Jews chose to live in PL, so they kinda had it coming and how it's actually all the fault of the Stalin Jews and the Jews in general and if it's not the Jews, it's the commies, anybody, anything, just except the Poles. Either you come with sth completely new or be prepared not to responded to anymore. Ok? I still regard you as having one braincell more than that amoebe ender, let's keep it that way, ok?


Nope, you're the first or the second one I ever reported.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Of course. If you say so. Now, take your pills and be a good boy and go do peepee and poopoo and then off you go into your little bed, dreaming of evil Jews and how great it is that you're an anti semite. And wake up tomorrow morning to realise you're still in the same institution as you were last night.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


I already answered that question: the official estimates lie between 1000 - 1500 between May 1945 and September 1946. If you just took the time to read what I write instead of coming up with the same over and over again, you would have known.


Hm, according to reports it was quite a bunch, later on reinforced with workers coming from a nearby factory. Must be hundreds, perhaps thousands of bad Poles.


No, I just want you to admit that it was the Poles and the Poles alone who planned and performed this outrageous crime. Without covering it up over and over again, blaming it on ...The Stalin Jews!, the commies, Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band or Dwight Yoakam. Just take the responsibility for it and say it :) No sooner will I leave you in peace.


Before the Kielce incident? Much less than 1000 - 1500. So it's actually the Jews themselves who brought it on? Hm, haven't heard that one before. Nonsense of course, but always fun to hear how ppl re-chew what they have been told to chew.

Here's an example of what "some bad Poles" were capable of:


Same link as earlier on.

Now get out of my sight as I want to go to sleep. Tomorrow's another day, another day for more fun with you guys.

>^..^<

M-G (coming soon to you on their "War On Terror"-tour of Poland and Russia: ...The Stalin Jews! with special guests The Babcias! They will play all your favourites, like the International and will do requests!)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Oh look, one has gone, and another one pops up! The fun is never-ending, it seems :) I never stated that anybody controlled it, nobody controlled it, de facto it was the lack of control that allowed it to happen.

I am aware of all the points you mention, yet it's no explanation as to why grown ups let themselves carried away on the basis of a story of an 8-year old who wanted to stay a little bit longer with his friends and in order not to get punishment made up an elaborate story about Jews kidnapping him and hiding him in a non-existing basement. Besides, it sounds all like giving excuses. There is no excuse for it and there doesn't have to be an excuse for it. Just an admittance is needed. Needed in order to restore or normalize relations between Poles and Jews. As long as incidents like this get sweeped under a cover of who-knows-what reason, there will always be friction somehow. Incident-impact-repercussions, remember?


Mind if I laugh with you? But I am probably not laughing for the same reason as you do. I laugh because you try to minimize an incident that has shaped how the outside world has seen the Poles since. Thank God there are reasonable and sensible ppl in Poland, who are embarrassed and are most willing to admit that it was wrong and that it were their fellow countrymen who did this and don't try to hinge everything on some past of 1000 years ago. I have no problems with ppl like that as they are decent ppl, however, it's scumbags like you who continue to give Poles a bad name abroad. But I guess you have to be smart to understand that and I have my doubts about you.

You still haven't shared with us the name of the film. For all I know this could be a Polish film. But you claim it to be Jewish, so enlighten us about the name and we will look it up.

Edit, but it's time to go to bed now. It was fun and tomorrow there will be more fun, at least for me, I'm not so sure about you, though.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]



Quick link from Wiki.

So we never will know. But then again, we're not talking about Jedwabne, which took place in 1941, but about Kielce and the period immediately after WW2. And we de facto not even talking about that. The reason why we do is that some apparently don't understand the meaning of the word "illustration".

Anyhow, you're still very entertaining, ender; keep it up.


I'm actually having trouble what you try to say with this sentence. Is this Polish? No, the words look familiar, but yet in an unintelligable order. Perhaps you want to do that sentence again? Thanks :)


And I don't blame anybody either. It's well established already who were the perpetrators. I just want the Glorious Defenders of the Glorious History Of Poland Gloriously admit this.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

I see that ender is at it again?

Thank God for Google Translation:


So yet again all the standard nonsense comes out of the box. You claimed that 1600 went into the barn - I simply looked it up and it stated that based on the facts it could never have been more than 250 to 400 in the barn; the rest was murdered elsewhere.

Classic little story full of clichés again. Come up with sth better. I'm still enjoying myself dearly with the standard things you come up with :)

And for your information: I do understand perfectly. I am smart enough to understand that some weird story caused a mass hysteria that resulted in the deaths of 1000-1500 ppl in the period immediately after WW2, ppl who had just survived the biggest organised killing in human history. Only to find a hysterical mob infuriated by imaginairy paranoya killing them.

@MediaWatch: I seem to remember that I already responded to that column, after all, you post it every other post you do, so it must be somewhere. Don't feel like looking it up, excusez moi.

>^..^<

M-G (proud to be not brainwashed)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

@Ender:

Darn, I can't look on this forum or you're at it again. This time you should get your facts straight: 1600 was the total number of deaths in Jedwabne, of which between 250-400 were put in the notorious barn and burned alive.

The Nazis managed to put more than that in cattle wagons which were smaller than that barn, so it's not really spectacular.

Anything else you want to share with us?

>^..^<

M-G (darn, having so much fun, it's probably going to be late before I finish that report)

Life / Can a 17 year old, buy beer and cigarettes in Poland? [30]

Tonight, as part of their "War On Terror"-tour through Poland and Russia, playing in a venue near you: ....The Stalin Jews! With special guests: The Babcias!

:)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens, tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

@MediaWatch:

Oh no no no! You have no new material? Here they are again...The Stalin Jews! That link to that column I have seen pass by for about 500 times by now. Is this the only source there is for....The Stalin Jews! ? Also, everybody knows that there were loads of Jews in Poland. Question is why relationships detoriated since the 1600's. Yes - it's not sth that just came to be in the 20th century, no! It's already 400 years old! So of the 700 years the Jews were in Poland, about 300 years were happy and peacefully with no friction whatsoever. Then sth must've changed as they weren't friends anymore for the biggest part of that time. Under Pilsusdki they were pretty much emancipated again, but after that it was party time again with Endecja and all the fun that happened in the 1940's and after. In the 20th century a new script came into play: the Jewish Communist! This was a new club, mainly alive in the heads of non-Jews, who looked in envy to the better-off individuals of "THEM". Nobody really knows where this myth comes from, but it is assumed that this pamphlet by the White Armies of the Russian Civil War lays at the bottom of it:

It was an invention of the White Anti Communist Propaganda who abused the fact that Leon Trotski was of Jewish descent in order to put a nice new flavour to the war: random killing of Jews. And it happened: tens of thousands of Jews were randomly murdered during the Russian Civil War, as well as with the Polish - Soviet War, which of course was a part of the Russian Civil War. You have to hand it to the propaganda machine of the Whites: they did a very good job; nearly 100 years later ppl still believe their story.

Your referral to Gross' book is proof that he is as neutral as can be - so Neighbours and Fear weren't such lies after all? Or is Gross only a good guy when he writes convenient things?

The elite in Poland has long admitted that the things at stake here were committed by Poles, now only the common man has to admit it and we can go all smilingly through one door. Here's another part from Gross:


powells.com/review/2006_09_28.html


Nobody is asking anybody to go on their knees. Only open admittance that it happened and was perpetrated by Poles. Not by Soviets, Tommy James and the Shondells, Eskimos or alien invaders from the 3rd moon of Jupiter. Only thing you have to do, and what the entire world wants from you, is to say: "yes, it was us. We did it and we are deeply ashamed of it that we have done so." Nobody will kill you for it. Nobody will humiliate you for it. Example: the Dutch have admitted many times that they invented the slave trade of black Africans to the Carribbean, North- and South America. Nobody killed us for admitting that and we're doing pretty well ever since this admittance. But they will keep killing you if you keep blaming others for it. Luckily the group ferociously denying it or blaming on some other group or on the group themselves is getting smaller and smaller. Thank God for progress.

Anyway, I would write more, but I have a report for work to finish tonight and I have to do some other stuff as well. It has been fun for today, come again, all of you. I'd be happy to rebuke all of the myths and other nonsense used to justify the murder of innocent survivors of history's biggest organised killing. But that was the quintessential point of this discussion anyway: Kielce as a precendent as to why the whole world thinks Poles are notorious anti semites. Too bad the example started to lead a life of it's own and that not has been focused on the mechanisms I posted in that respective post.

But feel free to spill some more. It's been very entertaining so far, I'd love to see more of it :)

Edit:


True, but a good way as well is to use humour :)

Edit 2: Doctor! Doctor! Come quick! Ender is doing it again! He needs his medication!

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


You know, I will talk to your doctor to increase the dosage as the one you're getting now doesn't seem to work enough. My stupid little boy, you would not recognize sarcasm even if it hit you right in the face, now wouldn't you? And besides, I never said that Hitler started the war to kill Jews.

You still haven't mentioned the title of the film. And upon which do you base that it was made by Jews? On one of the comments to this clip at YouTube? Hardly a reliable source, isn't it? You can mention that before you leave this thread.


That it was them who committed the Pogrom in Kielce. Besides you and a few others on here, the usual suspects all deny it. And admitting that one's history might not be as glorious as one always has thought it was, is the first step to accepting that it was just that, which in turn means coming to terms with it, which in turn means letting the past go and move forward instead of remaining in the past.

>^..^<

M-G (from under every stone and rock they come crawling)

From your link:


And even more:


And I could go on to show you how your own link undermines your statements :D

Now go away before I pee in my pants laughing.

Edit: oh, and I could report you for that last remark about my mom, but I won't; I am sure everybody else can read it too. Now fcuk off.

>^..^<

M-G (hahahaha, next!)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Ah well, I hear they feed you three times a day in the institution.

According to ender the Communist régime in Poland consisted solely out of Jews and the Jews were out for the kill. Well, you get deluded minds like that all the time. You know, a skewed view on history is not that bad, but if you blame other ppl for what you did to them, it gets malicious. I never denied there were Jews amongst the Communists back in the days, but there were also Poles and there were many more Poles amongst the Communists than Jews and it's not other than logical: there were simply not enough Jews left after WW2 to fill the entire ranks of the Communists. They were murdered in WW2, remember that? So this is where the myth of the Communists in Poland consisting of mainly Jews end. They couldn't come out of the Soviet Union, for as you know, the Nazis killed Jews there too! And Stalin as well as the Russians weren't that big a fan of the Jews either. Still strikes me that a group is being punished by another group because of some of that first group were part of yet another group, while there were more members of the second group part of the third group. I guess it makes sense to the insane mind.

One day the Poles will admit and then the road lies open for acceptance. But until then, there will be sick minds maintaining the most glorious nonsense known to mankind.


Ah, your favourite (and only) example. How many times have you posted this single example? 13290 times? However, you never seem to mention the title of the movie, so we can actually check whether it's made by Jews or not.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Told you, I am busy, I'm just here for a few minutes while I drink my coffee. This weekend I have more time and I will provide you with some useful material.

Don't be so impatient!

@Paulina: here ender states it:



>^..^<

M-G (darn kids!)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Weren't you the one that was proud to be an anti semite? I seem to remember that you said that - how in the world do you think anybody will take you seriously after claiming to be proud for hating other ppl?

Now go away - I can already guess your "contribution". And by the way I don't read kosjer newspapers. I read a lot of newspapers.


Like I said, go away and leave this thread for ppl who don't openly proclaim to be proud to be anti semite.


Well, it was a period of widespread violence against Jews with of course the culmination in the Kielce incident. Most of them in Eastern Poland, however, there was violence in Western Poland too and in Krakow, which doesn't really lie in Eastern Poland.


Paulina, ender is an anti semite, not covertly but openly. He even proclaimed himself to be proud of it. I mean stupid is as stupid does, but to be actually proud of it, takes the biscuit :)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


First off, I find that a bit hard to believe, but secondly...Just why would they do that? Because they were treated so nicely in Poland? But I think we have to send this back to the land of fairy tales as most, if not all Jews knew what Hitler stood for.

>^..^<

M-G (shadaroba)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Oh look, ain't it cute, defending your brother in arms. Maybe you want to read all posts back to see who started insulting? But then again, since you are so stuck in your ways, you probably don't want to know.

The mods probably know that I get more insulted on here than anybody else, so don't start crying you wuss. And I said already before that I don't have any tolerance left for idiotic attacks and ditto statements.

Oh btw, the list you present have all been classified as myths. "The vast majority of the Jews were commie" Woah, if entire tribes of Jews joined their ranks, the Polish line at the office of registration for the CP must have been from Gdansk to Zakopane. The rest of your statements fall all under the label "victimisation".

And I asked before to come with arguments that are not based upon any of the 5 standard myths that seem to haunt some Poles' perception of history. Now, if you don't have anything useful to contribute, don't participate anymore in this thread, your statements are getting pretty boring, they're like a infinite tape.


It has been stated on this forum that Jews helped the Nazis in the KZ's to round up Poles for execution.


Martians :) Good one, although it wouldn't surprise me that some would actually consider that an option :) Oh, I don't need ET to prove that, I just let him prove it while he thinks he's falsifying it :)

And about the spark: Henryk Blaszczyk claimed he was kidnapped and held by Jews in the basement of Planty street, awaiting to be sucked out of his blood. So I would say that this is blood libel. However, when police arrived at the building in Planty street, they very easily found out that the boy was lying: the building had no basement.

But then again, the Kielce pogrom was originally meant as an example of incident - direct consequences and later reverberations - it was an illustration, unfortunately there were some that didn't understand this and now we're talking the whole godgiven time about Kielce.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


He does so here:


But you're right, we don't know if he is actually Polish or just some pretender who wants to undermine things a bit further. If he wants to do that, he's doing an excellent job. But having said that, one can conclude he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, that's for sure.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Off-Topic / PF - The Omnibus Edition [1502]

Oh gee, sb flattered Charlottes ego. We will never hear the end of it.

:)

>^..^<

M-G (Americans will be here in 30 mins it is said)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

You prove exactly that it was indeed Poles who performed the Kielce pogrom. If this mentality you're showing us is still alive, it would surely be alive in 1946. Woah, didn't think it was so easy to prove. But sad mofo's like ET and a couple of others make it all too easy to assume that it's true. But he has left us, which is a pity, would like to hear more of his rants - more proof that myself and others are right in our statements.

>^..^<

M-G (too bad, sorry ass nitwit)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

If they didn't do it, prove it, instead of showing me and the rest of this forum what pathetic idiot you are.

I haven't seen any proof from you, so far.

>^..^<

M-G (ET - yet another idiot joining the ever growing ranks on this forum, so tiresome)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Hm, in all your non-existing wisdom, how would you explain his latest book?

The reaction to Neighbours and Fear were proof that he must've hit some truth, a truth that has been hidden away as dark secret from the past. The harder the resistance, the more truer it is. Common psychology.

>^..^<

M-G (hates waiting)

History / Norman Davies - the Brit who loves Poland and becomes one of Us [250]


Yes I remember that. But where did that story come from? From a Pole? And besides, if it's true, then it's still only ONE individual - hardly enough cause to hate an entire ppl, eh?


Believe what you want, there is evidence to claim otherwise. Just one: ghettobenches where the Jewish students had to sit seperately in a corner of the lecturing room? I wouldn't call that freedom of movement.


And when you're a Polish historian who dares hinting that the Poles might be anti semitic, you get burned down and even death threats, court cases and the like. Ask Gross how that feels to write against the spirit of denial that blows through certain Polish ranks. And there are more. Nice example of how honourable Poles are towards ppl who disagree with their accepted myths. Btw, all those Gross-slanderers are put to deep shame by his new book about the Soviet invasion of Poland.


Ah, the STALIN JEWS again! This link has been posted about 150.000 times so far as "proof". Proof of what? That some Jews joined the Communist ranks? So what? There were Russians and Poles who joined those ranks too. What I always wonder about is why it's been taken so harshly on Jews that joined the Communist ranks, when I hear nothing about the Poles, Russians, etc who joined their ranks? And besides, only ONE guy saying sth about it in a column is hardly any counter-weight, isn't it?


Pls give examples. And those Poles that say he is anti-Polish, would probably say that Geese are anti Polish for flying over Russia before entering Polish airspace. Or if their car doesn't start, it's probably anti Polish too :)

>^..^<

M-G (waiting, waiting, waiting - darn Americans, never on time)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


See, this is the type of ignorant, vile nonsense that is thrown against the evidence and proves that anti semitism is still very much alive.


Gee, evidence however shows that you did do it, though. But of course, they are all liars.


Have you ever considered professional help, excruciating loser?

Behaviour like this is well described and thank God all decent Poles are embarrassed to bits and disgusted by the deeds and words by some of their fellow countrymen.


Doesn't surprise at all :)

>^..^<

M-G (still waiting for the Americans - must be a hold-up at the airport or sth)

History / Norman Davies - the Brit who loves Poland and becomes one of Us [250]

In the 4 years preceding the war they may not have been prosecuted although there are some reports of Jewish ppl getting killed, but that takes too much time to explain and that's not what I have at the moment. But life was made not that pleasant for them before the war and after the war they were prosecuted.

You don't need to know anybody personally - there is footage, witnessreports and images. One slight example of "knowing" anybody is what I told earlier: I have here a Polish guy in the office who told me, when discussing this, that he always found it strange that his grandmother was always picking out the Jews when watching television. One of my Polish ex-gf's told me once that her grandmother didn't like the Jews.

But about that "first-hand" history you keep hammering on: I also don't know anybody personally who lived during the Napoleontic occupation of NL, yet I know that it happened.

Anyway, got to hurry now.

>^..^<

M-G (hurry)

History / Norman Davies - the Brit who loves Poland and becomes one of Us [250]

Poles love Davies as he tells them all they want to hear. The truth of course is much different than what Davies writes, but that hasn't bothered him to horny-up Poland and Poles. The fact that he indeed denies the ever present anti semitism within Polish society should say enough.

@sobieski: the protocols of the elderly of zion are seriously embraced still in certain ranks and I suspect some on here believe them to the full. Ridiculous as it may seem, but then again, we're talking to ppl who actually think Hitler was a left-winger, so that shouldn't surprise anybody at all :)

And you were right - Gross' book about the Soviet invasion of Poland puts all the ppl who called him a liar to deep shame. Gross is definitively a much better and more honest historian than Davies. I just read sb mention that Davies uses historical truth. That nearly made me fall off my chair for laughing. And I cannot afford to fall off my chair laughing as I am expecting high guests at the office and lying on the ground laughing would not look so good, wouldn't it? :)

>^..^<

M-G (they are delayed for an hour though)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


It's gets better and better. Not only do you miss the point repeatedly; it now turns out that you also lack the capability to recognise sarcasm.

And for the rest you're like a broken record. Repeating the same over and over again, still gloriously failing the point over and over again.

I have no time to go into this deeper today, but admittance is the first step to acceptance and acceptance is needed in order for Poland to move on and as long as there are idiots like you and others who keep justifying these incidents, be it based on

myth A: the Jews were commies, a myth that apparently still lives today, remarkably;
myth B: the blood libel (where the hell did this nonsense come from?);
myth C: Poles have been good to Jews and yet Jews betrayed them;
myth D: Jews welcomed the Soviets (especially a popular myth in Eastern Poland - only partly true but represented as whole nations of Jews were welcoming the Russian troops) and:

myth E: the most remarkable myth of all: Jews helped round up Poles for the slaughter.

As long as ppl base themselves on rumours and myths like the above there will be no acceptance as there is no admittance. None of these myths are true and is based either on the Catholic Church or the gullibility of the Polish masses, have to figure that out yet, but I will, given enough time.

In the meantime, you and those other idiots that keep repeating the same irrelevant BS, pls refrain from doing so and come up with arguments that aren't covered, based or motivated by any of the 5 above mentioned myths. As long as you don't, I won't take you seriously.

Edit: Poles love to victimize themselves. But rememember, even victims have to take responsibility if they commit crimes.


Still wrong :) The word is whiner.

>^..^<

M-G (breaktime is over; back to busy again)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Oh look it's the dwarf shouting sth again. You got some nerve for sb who claims that Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians and English are not related to eachother.


What are whainers exactly? The same as fainders? Or remainders?


Oh look, yet another irrelevant, but standard, factoid is being thrown at the table. Jews have lived for 100.000 years in Poland, so that gives the Poles the right to just go and kill them off. Oh, there they are again: the Stalin Jews! Ladies and gentlemen, can I pls have your attention for.....THE STALIN JEWS!!! Pls give them a big hand!

Can you come up with sth else that justifies Pogroms? And copying me doesn't help your case. Oh sorry, forgot that Polish ppl have no fault at all. Darn! It's hard to find ppl that are so excruciating good on this planet, but ppl, listen up: we've found them! They are called Poles and they live in Central/Eastern Europe and about everybody else in Europe is taking advantage for years of them.

My dear boy, you have shown that you didn't understand what I was saying and come up with the same arguments you come up with over and over again, yet it's no explanation or justification. But the point you so gloriously miss (after all, everything Poles do is glorious, so when they fail, they also fail glorious) is that I was explaining Ironside about cause, consequence, long-term reverberations and repercussions and how they are handled in contemporary history. But it's ok. Now just pls go away and don't interfere anymore. Thanks.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

UK, Ireland / Why English do not like Polish? [417]


What the hell are you talking about? Germans and Dutch/Flemish are Middle Germanic ppl, Frisians, Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, English, Scots, Icelanders are West-Germanic ppl and are therefore related. Just because it happened thousand years ago, they are related. But this doesn't mean they like each other. It just means that they are all Germanic ppl.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Still are only 2 countries more. There are, give or take 193 countries in the world :)


Can I give that answer? :)

But seriously, you did get what I was aiming at with my post directed at you, right?


I said that many times. But what the heck do I know, I'm a Jewish/Communist/Antagonist of the Polish state who fails to see the gloriousness only and yet points also at some less glorious periods in time. If you would do that about Dutch history, I'd be happy to respond to that. I'd be not so very happy about the less pleasant parts, but given the fact that any country has less pleasant parts, I'd discuss about it. I for certainly wouldn't deny them or call the person who points them out a Netherlands-Hater or pour insults on top of them just for pointing those epoches out. But it seems here that some of the visitors feel personally attacked when you point out less beautiful and glorious episodes. But like I said many times; it's all part of their coming of age. They've been under the ice cap of Communism for 50 years after WW2, they didn't have time like us to put things in perspective yet, but I believe they will, someday. They have the bad luck that most of Europe had indeed the chance to move on after WW2, whereas they hadn't. It's just starting. Ppl like Jan T. Gross are a first sign that change is happening in the way the Poles look at their history. There's nothing wrong of being proud of one's history, but this shouldn't lead a person to be completely blind for the not so beautiful epoches.

Anyhow, it's the usual suspects who are on their hind legs.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


I didn't say it was a problem ONLY in Poland. There are more countries who still do that, but in most countries they have come to terms with the past. And no, I haven't heard of that particular case. But I can name you Dutch cases which deal with the matter and you probably would never have heard from them. Pieter Geyl's Groot Nederlandsche Gedachte (Pieter Geyl's Greater Netherlands Idea) was such a case. It has been rebuked since long. Nowadays those sentiments don't play a role in Dutch history-circles anymore.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)