Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

My cousins and family in Poland told me that both of those jobs offered me a generous compensation package. They stated that most families with two working adults survive on far less. It boggles my mind because many things like clothes, cars, gas, real estate, etc. are the same price as in Chicago yet people make substantially less. I really don't know how people in Poland manage to do it. I wouldn't go to Poland to make my millions nor grow my savings account. If I were going to expatriate to a country to do that I'd chose a wealthy Arab country or even Kazakhstan which is paying $80,000 annually for native English teachers now (10% income tax) to teach at their one of their dozen or so schools for the 'elite' of the country. I did some research and it seems like living in Poland may be more realistic for retirement than at a young age. I think a young adult would be better off even in Germany or even Czech Rep. if they want to save some money. Of course there are exceptions.

I was in Poland a few months ago because well, long story short, a construction company illegally dug an enormous hole on our property and was filling it with rubble. We have 1.3 Ha outside of Wroclaw and some company was hired by the city to do some work on canals or something with the Odra river but instead of properly disposed of the waste the people tore up our entire property. We had like 100+ apple trees on the property and the land value was worth quite a bit of money. It's more the sentimental value though because that was my grandma's house from my mom's side, would've been my parents' house for retirement, and then eventually mine. That house survived WW2 but some company managed to destroy it in 3 months. Now the land is a giant hole with rubble everywhere - it literally looks like a SCUD or something landed on our yard. So yeah, I was there to start a very long and tedious battle against the construction company. I may add also, if you ever are in a legal dispute hire a private investigator and a good lawyer (lots of young lawyer in Poland - but oftentimes their ambition makes up for their inexperience) because the PL cops at least in my experience with this are very lazy.

Anyway, while I was there I saw new German cars and even Harley motorcycles as well as Starbucks, Armani stores, etc. Although, I may add while these stores were full it looked like most people were window shopping as few actually had bags with purchases. I bought a pair of shoes for like 300 zloty which is about $75 which isn't too bad but for an average Pole that's a lot of money. However, even like with the cars I just don't understand how someone could afford a $20,000 VW Golf let alone even $70k BMW/Mercedes if most people are living on $1k-$2k a month. I wondered if a lot of these people work abroad or have like their main bread winner working abroad because their lifestyle just didn't justify what the incomes tend to be in Poland.

Top execs, politicians, and the top 5% seem to make like 15k-25k+ zloty a month. I read that the PM gets paid like 20k or 25k Zloty a month - that's like 5k-6k USD since the dollar is strong and zloty is weak at the moment.

Language / How well do Polish people understand Slovak? [88]

I agree with KPC21...

In my opinion, Polish is far different from the other Slav languages of the regions i.e. Ukranian, Russia, Czech, Slovak, Serbian, etc. When I hear one of those languages, I can understand Serbian actually the most of out all of them since a lot of words are identical but of course the alphabet is Cyrillic. Ukranian and Russian are pretty similar to each other but a Polish person will have trouble understanding those. Czech and Slovak are a bit more similar to Polish than Ukranian and Russian though.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

And for the comment of selling the polish economy to foreigners, sorry to say that is just not a intelligent comment.. I'm sure that the money I pay in tax and the money I put in the economy is better than nothing. So in a global world you will never be able to prevent this.. And especially as a pole it's basically something you shouldn't say out loud..

A lot of Polish people think this because oftentimes it appears that the politicians, especially in the previous government, seemed to be more concerned with satisfying foreign investors than the local population. However, that is the effect of globalization. If Poland didn't open up their economies at all we'd be in a situation like Cuba or North Korea.

The foreign companies come to Poland because of the abundant highly educated, highly skilled labor force where the wages are relatively low compared to say Germany, France, England, etc. It's both a blessing and a curse.

The economy is very strong in Poland - that's a fact. However, a lot of average people state that despite the overall economic situation being much better, their own situations are not improving. Again, it has to do with labor costs.

And delphiandomine you're right a lot of people do 'moonlight' like that and I think it has to do with the old communist mentality. Also, Polish people are very good at saving money and not living beyond their means. They do small things that add up like paint their own house, use public transport, etc. I don't currently live in Poland but my entire family (aside from mom and dad) do and I visit Poland regularly. If I found a job where I could make at least like $35k-$40k a year I'd move right away. However, I feel that this may be unrealistic for say a sales manager or med device/pharma salesman.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

Thanks Delphi I will check it out for sure.

I do know for a fact that some small business owners have become very financially successful. I have two family members that run small businesses and are wealthy even by western standards. Although I would love to open a small business, even like a deli or convenience store or something, it would be much more realistic to do in the US than in Poland. For Poland, I'd want to first learn the business laws and bureaucracy before investing in something like that.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

Pol Attorney - yes Poland has been backstabbed and sold out many times throughout history. Even worse, many times it has been by its own government. I do see where you are coming from though and I do agree but I just didn't want to stir up a storm here. It is sad that a country with a GDP of $1 trillion and ranking in 20/21st place in terms of GDP has such low wages when compared to Western Countries.

As far as the small businesses, I believe it - my grandparents from my dads side own a few small business and are wealthy even by western standards. They're definetely $1mil USD in net worth but yet some of the cheapest, most frugal people you'll ever meet. They have a metal fabrication shop, a deli/small food store, and a stall in the 'targ' that sells meats, sausages, etc. Basically the targ is like a big open air bazaar where people sell clothes, food, home items, etc. You can find great things for a fraction of the price compared to a retail store in the city center. A lot of the money they made was actually back in Communism when meat was considered a luxury and was rationed out. My uncle on the hand from my mom's family owns a fairly large hotel by Polish standards in Tychy called Hotel Piramida which is I believe 9 stories and it looks like a big glass pyramid, hence it's name. The rest of my family is pretty average though.

Unfortunately, I have only about $80k in savings so although I would perhaps have enough to rent a space, buy some inventory, hire some staff, etc. I feel it would be very risky to go into a country where although I know the language I know next to nothing about the business laws. I'm kind of at the point where I'm debating whether to go the mundane route and do an MBA in the US or finally do something I want and go to Poland. I wouldn't plan on like spending it and I'd still work but I'd want to at least keep it saved up in case things don't work out, I get fired, or whatever else may happen. Once I understood the business climate and laws, I would be willing to invest in a small business venture but I think think it would be too risky at this point. I think it would be much safer at least in my position to first get a job and feel out the situation and identify a need in the market. One of my good friends in the US who is jeweler makes a nice supplemental income purchasing Rolex's from pawn shops and craigslist in the US and reselling them to Poland. He also sends a lot of shoes especially Nike's, Jordan's, Adidas, etc. He actually makes a couple grand a month doing this and oftentimes he can't find enough Rolex's here at a good price to resell. I have noticed that many products and services popular in the US have started popping up in Poland - micro breweries, liquor stores selling tequila, scotch, and other imports, internet advertising and marketing firms, Harley motorcycles, internet auction sites, concert promoters, etc. I'd probably go the more traditional and safer route and just open up a kiosk with some cigarrettes and beer or a little convenience store near a university though.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

Yes there are still a ton of those old 'bloki' left - good suggestion!! I have looked into opening up a c store in the states and it can be very profitable especially if you have a liquor license. Those can be a bit tricky to obtain for a new business, at least in and around Chicago, but I was looking more into purchasing an existing location and remodeling it myself (My father is a contractor and he taught me carpentry, electricity, plumbing, etc. since a young age).

Everything adds up in a c store - the atm machine, cigarettes, alcohol, lottery, and of course the highest profits (at least here) from the chips, sodas, coffees, etc.

I don't think I'd be able to purchase much with $80k-$100k BUT perhaps doing a lease, $20k or so in inventory, 1 part time person to help out... that would be more realistic.

It may sound stupid because like when people say in terms of business dreams like oh I want to make a successful tech start-up, I want to open a fine French restaurant, whatever. Me? I'm more simple.. as lame as it sounds my dream is to open up a convenience store and then if the cash flow is good from it perhaps another location or even a gas station.

One thing that really surprised me is when I went to college in Cincinnati they had a ton of like 'drive thru' convenience stores. So basically, you stay in your car, tell the attendant what you want, he loads it up in a bag, you pay, and leave. You never get out of your car. I've only seen one of those here in Chicago. Although novel, I don't think that would work in Poland as walking and using public transport is much more common.

If you don't mind me asking, what part of Poland did you run this type of business? Was it in the city, suburbs, or more rural area? I'd primarily be looking in Wroclaw as that's the city I am most familiar with. The c store that my grandma ran was mostly like a deli - meats, cheeses, etc. but they also had like basic soft drinks like Pepsi. It was very successful because it was really the only store of it's kind in the area. They live in Oborniki Slaskie which is about 45 mins or so outside of Wroclaw and has about 20k or so inhabitants.

I'll never forget one of the times I was Poland and bought like a small glass bottle of Coke. I started walking out with it and the lady stops me she's like no you have to drink it here! I'm like well that's crazy I want to drink it at home or in my car. She couldn't believe I'd be willing to pay the 5, 10 groszy or whatever it was for the convenience of taking it with me instead of standing in the store and drinking it. Ah the culture differences...

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

Yes here the application is $25,000 for a liquor license here. I did see one liquor store for sale in a suburb outside of Chicago (Round Lake) for $120k with about $15k of inventory included. The location wasn't the best but it didn't really have much competition in the surrounding area.

I will go back to Poland this summer so I'll look a bit more into it. Real estate is very expensive in Wroclaw as well as the other major cities in Poland so I'd probably have to rent if I did something like that.

I have considered also opening up like an import/export business as I have noticed a lot of western goods we have in Poland are in very high demand but the prices are even higher than in the US. Electronics, iphones, ipads, luxury watches, etc. On the other hand, I have noticed that leather and sheepskin is very high quality in Poland and popular in the US but very expensive if you want something quality and even then it's often hard to find. My friend Mark gave me the idea since like I wrote earlier he makes a decent passive income (about $2k a month) sending Rolexes and basketball shoes to Poland. This would be a great online business and I wouldn't necessarily need a brick and mortar location but I don't think that websites like ebay, craigslist, etc. are as widely used in Poland as they are in the US. That would really be the main limiting factor. I could be wrong though.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

It was just a thought. If I were to go into something like that I would use ebay or craigslist to avoid taxes. I also wouldn't like have a ton of advertising and stuff to keep a low profile. More of just like a small online presence on perhaps the PL equivalent of Craigslist, a stall in the bazaar, and perhaps a newspaper ad advertising cheap electronics. I do know that when my friend Mark ships items, again mainly Rolex watches and basketball shoes, he's never had a problem. However, he ships it to friends and family who then meet the buyers for him.

Like say the IPad example. I purchase say 10 on Amazon for $2,400. I sent them to Poland (costs about $2.50 a pound with the shipping company we use) so maybe $100 or so or about $10 a machine (I'm guessing the Ipad probably doesn't weigh more than 4 pounds each). If the going rate is $316 plus tax, I don't think I'd have trouble selling them for even $300 with no tax in the bazaar or online. I could make about $40-$50 per Ipad sold and with 10 Ipads that is $400-$500. Of course this is a very basic napkin calculate but I do think it would work. I wouldn't have like a storefront reselling this stuff. If I did go that route, I'd do like a pawnshop which could be a novel idea as I have never seen one in Poland yet.

With the Rolex example with my friend Mark he purchases used Rolex Submariners most commonly for anywhere from as low as $2,000 to $3,500 - depending on the color, materials, age, condition, etc. He has a lot of contacts with pawn shops (especially in rural Indiana) that's why he's able to get these kind of prices. Usually he pays $2.5k for a standard stainless steel men's submariner with a black dial give or take a few hundred although every so often he'll get lucky and get it for $2k. Anyway, he will ship it to Poland with insurance and will sell them for $3,500 to $4,000 which is still a great deal considering Rolexes are much rarer in Poland, as expensive in the US, and it is hard to find a quality pre-owned/used one for a decent price. It is more difficult for him to meet demand than anything else. He will profit anywhere from $500 to as high as $1,500 per watch and usually ships like 2, 3, or 4 in a month. I don't think he's ever shipped more than 6 in a single month. He profits a bit over $2k a month with this. Not bad for a few hours of work on Saturdays.

He has recently gotten into shoes - Jordan's, Nike's, Converse, etc. He just started doing this about a year ago but he sees about $20 to $50 profit per paid and ships around 6-10 pairs a month.

However, you are correct - having a store front and redistributing US items would not be worthwhile as the taxes, custom fees, and all that would not be worth it. A stall in the targ selling Ipads, laptops, etc. at US prices with no tax would be viable though. One of the first millionaires in Russia after the fall of communism actually made his money by importing used computers from the US and reselling them. He couldn't believe how many Russians were willing to fork out like $2k for a used computer. He amassed a net worth of over $100 mil by doing this.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

I don't think you would have to pay an import tax if you're claiming to send 'gifts' to family/friends through the mail. I could be wrong. I'm sure it's different if you're a business and importing products as part of inventory but I don't think the same laws apply if you're a private person shipping a small amount of goods to another private person. I could be wrong though.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

Also, I don't do much shopping but whenever I bought items off ebay (granted far and few - like maybe 10 items purchased total off ebay in my life) I've never had to pay any tax - only shipping if it wasn't included in the price already. I'm just hesitant to give out credit card numbers on the computer or the phone. I did see on the news like a year ago that there was some sort of law that was suppose to get passed to get people to pay taxes on ebay though. I haven't made any purchases online since like September of last year and I don't recall paying taxes on that item. That's also why I purchase cars off Craigslist because it saves quite a bit of money as opposed to paying taxes at the dealership. I'm pretty handy with cars though so I know when I'm getting a bargain or not and if the car is going to be reliable or a lemon.

I don't know exactly how VAT and import taxes would apply in this case but I'll have to ask him. This is what I do know though: These items that are being sent are in small quantities and through the mail. It's not like he has a giant container that he loads on the docks onto a barge or something like most consumer goods where they are checked by a custom's officer. There is no formal company selling/shipping these goods - it is a private individual shipping to another individual. I do know the way that he does it more or less. He has a mix of customers - some that are brokers, dealers, jewelry store owners, etc. and some that are simply buying it for themselves or for another as a gift. He will ship the item usually through Polamer. A lot of people use Polamer to send clothes and gifts as it is customary when visiting family and friends in Poland to brings gifts from the US. Most people ship the items instead of putting them in the luggage as it is oftentimes cheaper to ship than pay the Lot fees for extra luggage. Last time I flew, Lot tried to charge me like $180 for being 8kg overweight. Anyway, Mark usually ships to his friend from high school, guy named Darek usually 1 watch at a time. Now he's at the point where he has quite a bit of customers but before he would do word of mouth advertising, call up jewelry stores that purchase jewelry as well, etc. They buyer in Poland will contact my friend Mark and Mark will let them know what he has on stock, what he can get, the costs, etc. Mark will then give the customer's information to his friend Darek. Once Darek has received the package, he will meet with the customer and sell the item. Darek will then paypal the money back to Mark, put it onto a reloadable Visa, or send a traveler's check, etc. I will see Mark over the weekend so I'll ask him more detail though about the shipping but to my understanding when we spoke about this he just ships it like a normal package as if he were sending his friend a gift through Polamer. I may add that his most common item is the men's Rolex Submariner and he's been a jeweler for 25+ years and can spot the difference between a real Rolex and a fake. Even some of the highest quality replicas that cost well over $1k will have even the same exact movement inside the watch and everything BUT even those replicas are unable to duplicate the movement of the bezel. A real Rolex's bezel has I believe 120 different positions and that is the one part of the watch even the most professional replica makers are unable to master.

Trade, barter, and bazaars have been in Poland's history for ages. Even during Communism, many guys would make their living exchanging Zlotys for US Dollars and Deutsche Marks. My family ran a meat business and would often trade meat for cash or Levi's Jeans, western movies and music, Marlboro cigarretes, or any other items that were rare for that time period. It was a common practice and very rarely did the Police or any tax officials bother people about it even though it was technically illegal. It would be very difficult for the tax authorities to clamp down on all the people selling hand picked blueberries on the side of the highway, the guy selling cd's on the corner, the caricature painters in the city square, and like 75% of the people in the bazaar. Also, I may add that in the bazaars all sorts of items are sold from cheap foods like potatoes all the way to clothes (I've always wondered if the Adidas, Nike, etc. is legit or a knockoff because it looks dead on but it so much cheaper than the prices in the retail stores) to cell phones to German car parts and rims and everything in between. Perhaps a 65' OLED TV would be harder to sell but an Ipad or cheaper laptop not so much. Electronics are sold there but mostly audio equipment, DVD players, etc. from my experience.

And no, lol it was just a thought - something I was considering because a good friend of mine has been doing it for sometime. I will have to research it a bit more to see how he does it exactly and how he deals with import taxes, vat, and all that other stuff...

By the way, is import tax the same thing as 'clo' or is clo just a regular tax? I do see 'VAT' a lot of times on the cars and such like those imported from Germany. They'll have like the sticker price and then say 'PLUS VAT' under it. I can't say that I've seen it at like department stores for foods, clothes, electronics, etc. which I'm assuming much are imported unless the VAT is already calculated into that price or it's added when you go to the register.

Work / Expatriating to Poland... good career move for a young male? [50]

WOW I did not know that the tax authorities were that harsh in Poland... and here I thought the IRS was hardcore... So what you're telling me is that in the targ (aka bazaar) now the vendors have cash registers that are registered with the Tax Bureau? Wow.... that is insane! Is it the same for services? Like say if you get a haircut, take your car for a tune-up, etc.?

I did ask my friend about the whole shipping thing - he will usually send it in a package with clothes like say jeans, t shirt, and like a box of chocolate and the watch will be in the pocket or something. Sometimes it is shipped in parts so like the bracelet will be in 1 package and the mechanism in the other. He did have his package held by customs one time and had to pay the VAT plus a fine. He said that lately business has been extremely slow since the Zloty to Dollar rate make imported products, especially US ones, very very expensive. But yeah, for the most part it's been pretty easy for him to just ship the package as present of clothes for a friend with the watch inside. He stated he does take a risk though by not insuring the package but he has not had any issues with confiscation yet. Also, sometimes he will pay someone to fly to Poland or go himself with the watches but with this he'll usually have them take 2-3.

I'd also like to add when I flew to Poland recently the price was VERY cheap. Last time I flew in the summer I believe the tickets themselves $1800 for a round trip from Chicago to Warsaw to Wroclaw. This time I paid $1,650 for roundtrip PLUS 10 nights at a 4 star hotel in Wroclaw. I couldn't believe how cheap it was.

Yes if I did move to Poland I would definitely rent at first. I really want to leave the US for a while, perhaps even permanently and add some international work experience to my resume. I have a bachelor's with a dual major in International Business and Marketing but most of the jobs I've had since graduating were all sales. It's mainly because I could make much more money as a salesperson than say like a marketing associate or whatever. I don't necessarily enjoy it but weirdly enough I am good at it. I'm not going to make money although I want to make enough to live on and perhaps save some. It'd be more for experience and adventure and also to add something unique to my resume. Of course, having a good salary doesn't hurt but it's not a requirement.

If I did move to Poland I'd have to most likely continue in sales as it looks like I wouldn't earn nearly as much money teaching English. I think it would be rather difficult to live on a teacher's salary in Poland. I have looked into teaching in other countries though - mainly S. Korea, China, Japan, and Kazakhstan. Surprisingly, there's a group of elite schools in Kazakhstan and they actually pay English teachers the most out of this group - $80k USD annually with 10% income tax. The jobs in S. Korea were very attractive and it seems as long as you're a native speaker, have a 4 year degree, and a TOEFL certificate you're good. Although the average salaries are higher in countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc. I don't think I'd like living there very much. I have considered teaching English in Germany or working in another profession especially if the job was close to the Polish border although with all the changes in Germany I wouldn't want to go there anymore. Czech Republic is still an option. Prague is actually my favorite city in Europe. I absolutely love it! If I could find a job in Poland that even paid $30k a year I'd move right away but it's been a challenge finding a job that pays this let alone getting an interview and offer.

On another note, I did get a job offer from a large Polish fraternal organization/insurance company with their hq in Chicago and I am considering taking it. They are in 35 states in the US and have a lot of contacts in D.C. as well as Poland. They frequently have dinners, galas, dances, etc. If I accept this job I know I'll be able to make a lot of contacts in high places, especially within the PiS government as they are very friendly with this organization, and that could perhaps open some doors to good jobs in Poland.

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

I love Poland because nearly my entire family lives there and it is where I was born (Wroclaw). I love Poland because of the beautiful culture and traditions although I am not a big fan of the food. I love our beautiful Polish women. I love that Polish people truly take pride in whatever they do - if it is a restaurateur he or she will make the place look amazing and have great food yet charge low prices. I love Polish hospitality and how warm people are - although you have to be careful as many are rather wise and cunning and will pretend to be your friend to use you.

I feel that Poland as a country and Polish goods and services are like a 'best kept secret' in a way.

Language / What are the hard aspects of Polish according to its learners? - home essay [21]

Learning all the proper grammar - like mianowinik, biernik, wolacz, etc. - basically teaches you to properly use verbs... I consider myself a fluent Polish speaker and writer and I still don't know all of those.

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

I feel Poland is like a 'best kept secret.' All the beautiful castles like Wawel, cathedrals like Ostrow Tumski, hiking and enjoying the hot springs in Zakopane... I love everything about Poland...

Just wish wages were a bit higher or at least on par with Germany, France, England, etc.

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

AMEN!!

News / Poland's trump card, the most famous Pole alive (L. Walesa) - what do you think? [38]

I don't think that he was all that great of a president. I do admire his courage for standing up to the reds and organizing people but I don't think as a president he was that great. I think he would've been better as perhaps like a human rights minister or labor minister or something. I don't think economics were necessarily his specialty. Nonetheless, Poland did not have an economic wild west free for all to nearly the same extent that Ukraine and Russia did after the collapse of communism.

History / Cars made in Poland - during communist and post-communist times [23]


Not exactly. I don't know the exact specifics of the dollar and its purpose in Poland but I do know that buying things with dollars was not illegal.

The cinckiarz profession I think was technically illegal but kind of accepted by authorities. The PL government was unable to provide basic goods for citizens during several years (forget what years it was I think it was either under Gomulka's or Jaruzelski's reign) and even during the 'good years' a lot of items were very scarce and rationed out. This is kind of similar to North Korea where there are markets where citizens can buy and sell goods - often using dollars or Chinese currency but rarely NK currency. Although technically illegal, they are a must since the NK currency has hardly any value and oftentimes an average citizen can't purchase certain goods from NK government run stores because the items simply aren't there.


Yes my parents had an old diesel Mercedes. The Skodas I hear were actually regarded, and still are, as pretty good cars for the money. Opel were also pretty popular but I don't know if that was pre 1989 but I sure saw a ton of them in the 90s


You are correct - the engines are imported. Also these cars are made in very small amounts like the Hussarya is 33 units and the Leopard is handmade with about 80 to 200 units a year. Oftentimes manufacturers will import engines or other components because of economies of scale. The Germans make great engines but their electronics aren't the best in their cars. I had a 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero and the car was a mut. You would think oh a Saab - well that's a Swedish car. However, only the metalwork was in fact Swedish, the engine was a German VW/Audi - 2.0 turbo (used in the Audi A4, VW Jetta and GTI, etc), and the transmission was Japanese. The radiator was actually from Poland. Another example is Jaguars and Land Rovers since they use Ford engines but are often considered to be British cars.

History / Cars made in Poland - during communist and post-communist times [23]

Not sure kpc21 - this was before my times. Communism in Poland was quite different right after WW2, different during the 60s and 70s, different during the martial law times, and different yet in the 80s right up to the explosion of the solidarity movement.

I do know that things were rationed and I actually still have an old ration card. I found it funny that the government rationed out cigarettes and alcohol.

As far as gasoline rations I have no clue but that's a good question. I do remember though having to crank up the engine on the old MB to get it going.

I've always wondering how popular Russian made cars were in communist Poland. I do know there were a bit of Ladas around. I would absolutely love to get my hands on a M13 Chaika. They're rather expensive though - $60k 70k+ for the sedans and $100k+ for the convertibles. Even when they are available they go very quickly.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

Russia has done a lot of bad and the US is suspicious of them. However, I think that the US should at least engage in more meaningful diplomatic discussion with them concerning ISIS and the middle east. They've certainly done a better job of bombing ISIS than we have and in a shorter time too. Economic sanctions don't really hurt the leaders of these countries but rather the everyday citizens. In fact,

People don't respect the US anymore. Russia, Iran, and China are starting to realize that the US isn't all that strong anymore and they can start doing what they want.

That's besides the point though. I am interested to find out what the opinion of Russia and Putin is in Poland - especially among the youth and the euro skeptics.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

Well Poland has been betrayed by many countries - both Russia and the west.

I have heard of some news outlets accusing Russia of sponsoring groups in Poland and the Baltic countries. I haven't looked too much into it but it wouldn't surprise me given the situation in eastern Ukraine.

Personally, I don't think Poland should put all their faith in Germany, the EU or Russia. I don't think they should chose one side over the other though as both sides have screwed them over. Ultimately, Poland needs to continue to modernize their armed forces and think for themselves instead of going by whatever Brussels tells them to do. I think we are starting to see some changes in Poland - whether they are for the better or for the worse only time will tell.

Also, Didn't Mikke-Korwin write a pro Russian (anti-Russophobia or however it is spelled) book? I think he also stated that supposedly the snipers in Maidan were trained in Poland were CIA agents there to cause unrest or something like that.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]


That beautiful Stalinist syringe wedding cake looking 'Pajac Kultury' building in Warsaw of course! Just kidding.. to my understanding that 'gift' from the Russians was paid for by the Poles anyway.

That was actually the very first thing I wrote - I know that Poland and Russia historically did not have a good relationship. The question is if that is at all changing now as some Poles want the country to exit the EU (oftentimes because they are critical of Merkel's policies) so I am wondering if they are perhaps looking more towards Russia as a partner instead of the Eu. I guess the general consensus is no - distrust of Germany and the EU is not warranting a better relationship with Russia and Putin.

It does look like it rose a little bit from the year before for Poland.

The one thing if you look at their methodology the sample size used is very small - just over 1,000 Polish people:

Survey Methods for Poland in 2015

Country: Poland
Year: 2015
Sample Design: Multi-stage, area probability design. Primary sampling units (PSUs) are gminas (communities) stratified by province, urbanity and gmina size. Twenty-seven large gminas are selected with certainty. Within these gminas, PSUs are blocks. The number of effective PSUs is 257. Individuals within households are selected using the next birthday method. At least three attempts are made to complete the interview with the selected respondent.

Mode: Face-to-face
Languages: Polish
Fieldwork Dates: April 7 - May 13, 2015
Sample Size: 1,028
Margin of Error: 3.5 percentage points
Representative: Adult population 18 plus
Primary Vendor: Princeton Survey Research Associates International
Weighting Variables: Gender, age, education and urbanity
Design Effects: 1.28

If you pull up Germany, Russia, etc. the sample sizes are all around 1,000 as well.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]


I agree with you 100% on that. The Visegrad 4 must stand firm with each other. Quite frankly, I would love to see Serbia included in this group too.


The Serbs have enjoyed close ties with Russia throughout history. After the fall of the USSR, the average Russian began to view the US very favorably - they wanted to live and work in the US, study in US schools, listen to US music, etc. etc. The bombing of Belgrade changed all that right away and Russians have viewed the US unfavorably since then.


That's what I was thinking! Why should China, Iran, Belarus, etc. be the only ones to benefit from increased trade caused by Western sanctions? I mean Russia is so hurt by sanctions and oil prices but unfortunately Poland can't really become a bigger trade partner with Russia because that could mean political backlash from the EU and losing trade with Germany and the EU. The PiS government is already in a precarious situation for their 'rule of law' violations. Merkel really has Poland by the balls.. I do know there is a good business relationship between the Poles and Russians in Kaliningrad. The politicians, not so much - they're worried about military deployments there.

I know Poland and Russia have had their share of problems. I think though with the craziness going on next door in Germany, Poland should at least consider making better relations with Russia if even only for their own financial gain through exports.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

I do think that Serbia would be an excellent mediator between NATO dominated Central Europe and the Russian east. This is why the whole war started in Ukraine and thousands paid the price for it. It was an important chess piece for both Nato and Russia.

I'm happy to see that at least the Slavic countries aren't being sucked into the craziness of their western neighbors.

History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

There is a lot of speculation still on what did and didn't happen, whether there was a genocide or not, whether the 8,000 Srebnica figure is accurate and so on. I personally don't know whether there were real war crimes or not and this is a topic that should be investigated further by independent committees. I did follow these events very closely as this was really the first of many large international conflicts that the US would become involved in my lifetime. I'm certain there were abuses on all sides - Serbs, Croats, KLA, etc. I do however know that the U.S. media is very biased and a lot of the claims weren't based on proven evidence. The media would report that the reason they couldn't find the thousands of bodies outside of Srebnica is because they were supposedly moved. Then they said that they were melted in an aluminum factory. There really isn't much evidence for or against a lot of the events that occurred. The media also ignored the Krajina 'massacre' committed by the US and Croatian forces. Even if say the Croats didn't kill the supposed 2,000 or so Serbs as claimed, they still drove out hundreds of thousands from their homes. Even the figure of Serbians raping women was lowered from 60,000 then down to 20,000 then finally only 119 documented cases were found. Besides, the commanders and politicians were investigated and tried already by the Hague. It's over and done with. Serbia is not like some international pariah like Cuba or North Korea. Yugoslavia was split up, each nationality got their own land whether fair or not, it's over and done with. I personally would've rather seen Yugoslavia stay as one like under Tito but that's history.

I have a favorable view of Serbia in the same way I support Czech Republic and Hungary. I feel that the Slavs must be united as they cannot only rely on the major European powers.

History / What are Poland's pagan roots? [62]

Paganism is a bit more popular in the Ukraine that in Poland. There are several churches that still hold pagan masses in dedication to Svetovid (or Swiatowit as known in Poland). Paganism isn't very popular though and even if say a group of individuals identified as pagan they'd most likely hide their faith and not practice openly as paganism is frowned upon due to the strength of the Catholic church in Poland. . There were some movements to like instill pre-Christian Slavic pride in Poland but again they were more popular in Ukraine and other places. (There's actually even a Svetovid worship/Ukranian pride center in the old neighborhood I grew up in Chicago.) Poland is a very Catholic country - paganism is frowned up and in fact the year that Poland was baptized is essentially thought of as the same time that Poland began to exist as a state. Paganism in Poland, pre-996, is thought of by most Poles as the ignorant, heathen, barbaric times of Poland's history. I don't agree with it and I wish there was more archaeology and research being conducted into Lusatian culture and this period in general but alas it is what it is. One popular historic site from this pagan time period is the Biskupin Fortress.

History / What are Poland's pagan roots? [62]

It's funny because I know exactly what you're talking about. Priesthood is sometimes thought of as a good paying, financially rewarding career rather than a job to serve the community and the faith. I have two members in my family that are priests - both in small somewhat rural towns outside of Wroclaw. One lives it up, drives a Mercedes, drinks all the time, and makes bank by Polish standards. The other is a counselor to the community and is very liberal in the sense that he doesn't judge alcoholics, divorcees, etc.


Not exactly. Polish Catholics didn't suffer that much losses at the hands of other Catholics when compared to the losses they suffered against other nations' religions. Throughout Polish history, the largest battles and losses that Poland incurred were usually against Russians, Prussians, Austrians, and prior to the partitions the Turkish Muslims and their allies. Poland fought a huge war against the invading Turkish Muslims but hasn't faced a large Muslim force since really Jan Sobieski's time. They were repelled and their power gradually diminished with only little outposts in the Balkans by WW1 they were already the sick man of Europe . I would say that Poland suffered the most casualties against Russians throughout its history due to the near constant wars with Russia - some they won like the Polish-Soviet War (1919) and Livonian War (1550-1580's) and Polish-Moscow war (early 1600s) but many they lost like WW2 when Russia invaded from the East (and killed far more Polish Catholics than the Nazis and deported hundreds of thousands - some of which are still living in Siberia to this day), the November Uprising (around 40k Poles dead), Polish Russian War and other battles during the Partitions. Before the Partitions, the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was spanking Russia left and right - driving Hussar pikes up the butts up of Smolensk and Moscow residents regularly. Then Russia got revenge and was making Poland is beyotch till a bit after WW1 during the Polish- Soviet war when Poland repelled the Russians but didn't really gain territory.

Russia was predominantly Orthodox (and still is) during the time of the Partitions and into Bolshevik revolution. When Poland was fighting Russia again after WW1, The Orthodox church was in decline in Russia. It was still popular but the Bolsheviks leaders, who were often Jewish, wanted to do away with Orthodox church as it threatened their power and control. So most of the soldiers were 'athiest' or Orthodox that were lead by Bolshevik Jews such as Trostky, Lev Kamenev, Moshe Uritsky (Cheka chief) and so on.

So no, most war casualties throughout Poland's history weren't actually caused by other Catholics but more so by Orthodox if anything and also Protestants from German-Prussian lands and perhaps 'atheists' from Bolshevik and Soviet Russia - although I guess in the broad sense yes we do all share the same God, prophet and basic beliefs.

News / Germany After the EU and the Russian Scenario - future of the European Union and Poland [310]

Poland's biggest trading partner is Germany though - 26% of Polish exports according to the source below. Hopefully they'll form better relations with the Visegard 4, Serbia, Russia, and the rest of Europe.

worldsrichestcountries.com/top_poland_exporters_trade_partners.html

The sanctions hurt Poland a bit since 5% of Polish exports go to Russia so it is several billion dollars that got affected. However, it's not like Poland would collapse because they couldn't export to Russia. Yes, it hurt a little but it's not like total devastation of the economy because of Russian sanctions.