History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

"Jews, in contrast to the millions of serfs and the impoverished
townspeople who were oppressed by the nobility, constituted a
privileged group which ... effectively represented the only class in
the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to concentrate finance and liquid
assets in its hands."
- Witold Rymankowki in Polonsky, Antony, Ed. From Shtetl to
Socialism:
Studies from Polin. The Litman Library for Jewish Civilization,
London, Washington, 1993.

"...in Poland a number of wealthy Jews ... were engaged ... (as
money lenders, merchants) ... managers of the prince's mint, supervisors
of collection of taxes and tolls, [and] management of estates acquired
as the result of foreclosure."
- Weinryb, Bernard D. The Jews of Poland. A Social and Economic
History of the Jewish Community in Poland from 1100 to 1800. Jewish
Publication Society of America, Philadelphia, 1973. p. 63

"Another area controlled by the Jewish community was rents and
leaseholds. In time ... monopolistic tendencies increased among the
Jews ... The fact remained that the monopolistic-exclusion
principles were also an integral part of the Jewish way of life and could thus
not be regarded as a constant anti-Semitic factor directed solely
against themselves."
- Ibid. p. 159

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

If you read the certain excerpts I had posted, you can see that Jews not only had it great in Poland, but in fact had it better than the Non-Jewish Poles themselves.

Some American Jews blame Polish Catholics because they know, deep down, that American Jews did nothing to save their fellow tribe members in Europe during WW2. Instead of blaming themselves (though what could they do anyway) they blame the Polish Catholics. Even though Polish Catholics suffered as greatly during WW2 as many other groups did.

"...to ask why the Poles did little to help the Jews is rather like asking why the Jews did nothing to assist the Poles." - Norman Davies

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


The excerpts I have posted clearly show that Polish Jews had privileges, along with Polish Catholic nobility and royalty, over all the rest of the Polish Catholics. So Jews were not the only privileged ones, but these excerpts do examine the situation of the Jews in particular. Jews may not have owned land and no one did unless they were the nobility or royalty. But, and I would be happy to provide more excerpts, Jews were allowed to be mobile, marry, and divorce. Serfs (the majority) could not be mobile, and had to have permission from the lords to marry.


They also blamed it on, and rioted against, nobles, members of royal divisions, and even at times clergy. Jews were part of the oppression, and so they were blamed as well. They were active agents, not passive objects.

I actually have some Jewish background. I simply choose to look at history without any loyalty to any particular group or narrative.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

I do not live in Poland nor was I born in Poland, My views do not represent the views of Poland. So I am not claiming to represent Poland or every single Polish person on earth.

Just because other sites with other motives use the excerpts I used, doesn't mean that the excerpts themselves are racist at all. These books do exist, do they not? If another website uses the excerpts, that doesn't mean the excerpts are tainted an should be deemed racist.

So because I'm merely pointing out that certain members of certain group are/were not saints, and were/are active agents rather than passive objects, that makes me racist?

How can you be racist against Jews? You have Black Jews, Arab Jews, Chinese Jews, Indian Jews...

Millions of Caucasian Jews lived in Poland, and chose to live there, and could leave any time. They lived there for a very long time. So how could Poland be an evil hot bed of "anti-semitism" if so many Jews lived there? Another poster pointed this out.

Polish Catholic serfs, the majority of the population, could not leave their land and were not allowed in cities..

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


I have read the quotes on various sites, and at my library, including Google Books (which is where the book by Weinryb is.) I have listed the publisher and date, so you can see that the books do indeed exist and that the excerpts were extracted from the black and white pages in which they were contained. There is no real reason to be suspicious of the literature itself. I am sure they are available at your local library or you could find the excerpts/ snippets on Google books.

The victim narrative (pre-WWII) by members of a certain religion-tribe has employed is mostly false. They were in privileged positions that they had chosen, one of which Catholics would not do because the Church forbade them (ie usury).

I think many (not all) members/affiliates of the Jewish religion-tribe need to analyze themselves as a group, and face their martyr complex and collective narcissism. Defaming countries such as Poland is not a way to invite rational discourse. And stating that they were "forced" into privileged positions (poor them!) is simply a deflection of their own accountability.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

As I had stated in my previous post, just because other sites promoting other agendas use the same excerpts doesn't mean that the excerpts are written by the owners of those sites. The books are on Amazon, Ebay, your local library, Google Books, you could probably even download full pdfs of them if you look hard enough. But you simply prefer to imply that I'm a neo-nazi, how convenient of you.

Rev. Stanislaw Musial said that. I'm not Catholic, I am not fond of the Catholic authorities for my own reasons, and I do know that Polish Catholics, as a group, were not saints (towards neighboring nations.) Or towards their own people (serfdom).

But what Stanislaw Musial said is absolutely true of the Jewish group (not every Jewish individual on the planet.) But it goes further than what he said.

thoughtclusters.com/2007/06/the-martyr-complex

"Wikipedia explains, a "person who has a 'martyr complex' desires the feeling of being a martyr for its own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it feeds a psychological need."

Granted, I am not a fan of Wikipedia. But for a simple diagnosis this really does apply to the Jews (as a group, not each individual Jewish person).

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

"...kings and noblemen, popes and bishops often employed Jewish
physicians. But not only physicians. Jewish tax and customs
collectors, or (in eastern Europe) bailiffs of manors could be
depended upon to do their utmost for the king or baron, in a way
that a Christian could not always be."

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

yehudi: "Yerrik's statements (that Jews were given extra privileges over Poles) was anachronistic and malicious."

Right. Because Jews never do anything bad ever ever ever. And anyone who might offer even a slightly different perspective has malicious intentions.

By the way, how were the statements I had posted anachronistic? Do they have an expiration date?

Harry: "Is this really what we want PF to be, a place where people cross-post things from Stormfront? Seriously? That's the image of Poland you want to be projected across the world?"

As I have stated in one of my previous posts, just because other
sites/ organizations/ individuals use quotes from the source I have
used (I. Shahak) does not mean that the author himself is
associated with them. I suppose you didn't take that into your
consideration and instead have chosen to poisen the well.

For example, if a communist quotes passages from the New Testament,
does that automatically then mean that the New Testament is now
communist? Apparently, according to your logic it does.

If you read about Shahak's life, which you haven't, you will get a
very different picture. But hey, discrediting someone by calling
them a Neo-Nazi or of course an "Anti-Semite" seems to be a method
you've employed in discrediting someone.

The post I had made, which was understandably deleted by the mods,
was to illustrate that many Polish Catholics had a terrible past.

If it was Christians in that excerpt were in the place of the Jews,
you would complain that Jews were barred from those positions.

Nickdewbear: "Some Jews are cliquey, but most of us are just trying to stick
together and survive."

There it is. Cliqueness and sticking together can be, and in this case very much are, the same thing.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

Harry: "Yes, and? Why do you come here and post the bleeding obvious? ...Or are those topics not discussed on Stormfront?"

I know you prefer to call me Neo-Nazi and/or Stormfronter to compensate for your lack of argument.

It actually isn't as obvious as you seem to think. Most Polish Catholics did have difficult lives since most of them were serfs (aka slaves.) Jews were fortunate enough not to have to be serfs. And then some.

It's not about desirable skills. It's about a group of people which acts and thinks as if it were one organism, in which its members are extremely loyal to one another, yet keep Gentiles either out or on a lower level. That's not a skill. That's just bullying.

kondzior: "Well, the opinion of Jew status in Eastern Europe comes from watching pop culture movies e.g. Fiddler on the Roof and A Serious Man.

Polish jews were never peasants. Simply because they couldnt/had difficulties owning land. Thus they were burghers and merchants mainly, ranging from big bankers to small time artisans. Since christians were forbidden to loan money with interest jews did this (or moors in Spain). Since Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania glorified rural life and elite of the nation was rural jews made up up to 80% of some cities."

No one could own land except for nobility and royalty, who were the minority. Everyone lived on their land. Catholic serfs (85-90% of the population) were the lowest eschelon. They were the ones with the terrible past.

"Although the case is more problematic, choices by Jews as a conscious subjects also played an imoportant role int he organization of their economic activities. They were not moneylenders or merchants simply because they were forced to by the dominant non-Jewish powers; since ancient times they preferred those roles to others, for example, that were tied to the land or that required heavy manual labor."

-Lindemann, Albert. Esau's Tears: Modern Antisemitism and the Rise of the Jews. Cambridge University Press, 1997. p. 17

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

I am throwing in my ideas through the examples and ideas of other authors. I have, and will continue to, post some of my own ideas. But I also need help in conveying my point, and there's no better way to do that than refer to other sources. Excerpts are not the only posts I make.


^Yes. This is very true.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

I find the Golden Horde and Tatar Yoke to be often overlooked chapters in Eastern European History, and history as a whole.

Yes, I would say a considerable number of Poles, and Eastern Europeans in general, have some Mongol and Tatar extraction.

The Golden Horde/Qipchak were the least East Asian of all the Mongol Khanates. Most were Turkics.

I believe the only areas they didn't invade were Latvia and Estonia (The Teutonic Territories). I could be wrong about that though.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

Care to elaborate, then?

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

In the U.S. The Tatar and Golden Horde history is overlooked. Probably not in Eastern Europe. I was being too general in my claim.

Not all Poles have Tatar extraction. Some do some don't. Some have 1/12th Tatar, some have more, some have none at all. It varies. It isn't a good or bad thing. Poles in Poland will always be Poles.

The Tatars and Golden Horde didn't rule Poland or Lithuania. But, they did routinely attack areas. They almost made it to Austria at one point, even. Though my history on that maybe fuzzy.

It maybe overlooked in other parts of the world, too. But not Eastern and probably not Central Europe.

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

Yes, well then I guess I was mistaken. I admit that I was erroneous in thinking this.

My knowledge of the Golden Horde and Tatar Yoke is limited and more general, so I have to read more about it.

Love / My Polish wife's family hate me. Maybe it is because I'm black. Advice needed. [87]


^ This is true. Plus many Jews did play a large role in the Atlantic Slave Trade, and a smaller role in the Middle East slave trade. Many were in charge of share cropping estates as well.

Even today, a number of Jews in Israel and the United States have been heavily involved in the Blood Diamond trades in Africa. Jews were even allowed to be KKK members in the group's early incarnation. Bernard Baruch's father, for example. Ethiopian Jews, too, are segregated from the rest of the Israeli occupiers.

In any case though, unfortunately in Eastern Europe blacks are not really tolerated. And this is because there are so few of them living there and they've never really had a history of living there until recently.