History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

@Torq
PS: If your dream-Intermarium is one of ethnical, religious, political and sexual oppression (only the "right" choices will be supported, everything else is "verboten") then I'm sure we will see alot more Poles and others chosing Germany to live in, preferring their freedom, packing their bags and wandering westwards...especially the young ones...

And the end of that is also already predictable!

Do you really want to repeat that sad old history?

Please stick to the topic

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I don't hope so!

Because I want to keep living in a country where my choice of religion, political party and sexual orientation is only my own decision and nobody else's. Where I can create my life after my own wishes, undisturbed and unhindered by some governmental or clerical judgement. Where I am free to do as I please as long as I don't disturb somebody else's freedom.

That was what I longed for as I grew up behind the Iron Curtain, that was what people died for fighting the Third Reich...it would be a nightmare to go back to that.

And btw....people still make their choices with their feet. People (not only from Africa or Arabia) are storming Germany, dream to live here, because it's a good life here, with all these freedoms!

Think about that one for a minute...


Oh bin it, Spike!

You hated Germany long before that refugee-crisis! It's as I said, it's a strawmans argument now...

Germany could start shipping Muslims out tomorrow and you would still call it Nazi and how Germans can be trusted because of that. You take what you can get to feed your Germanophobia!


Well...the EU is about to shell out 1 TRILLION of support funds to Corona-suffering EU members....most other countries can only dream of such big failing! :)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

Tell me more about these differences please....what exactly are those?

Because if you are talking about...national mentality and similar language, religion down to worldview, art, music, folk traditions....then you can forget your Intermarium immediately...because ALL nations are different in that regard...that's what makes them to different nations in the first place. They are no "little Polands"...

And still, you want them to work together for a common greater good, in a union...so you believe they are able to overcome these differences...because they identify with a common greater good.

Bingo! :)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Me too....


Of course...why shouldn't they!

It's YOU who persist on fundamental differences....but they don't exist....Poles make good Germans = Germans make good Poles....all these "irreconcilable" differences exist only in your head and in politicians greed who always like to rile up one people against another to secure their position and to make themselves indispensable!


Not as long as you want to rebuild a foggy glorious past against a past enemy with refighting past wars....you will only lose the future again!

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

I always wonder where you take that from.....Poles and Germans are probably the most mixed peoples in Europe!

How can you differentiate between them so clearly when over the centuries millions of Poles and Germans have mixed....so many Poles and people of polish heritage have influenced Germany

These masses of people have assimilated and integrated so flawlessly...culturally and socially...they can't be that different...where and HOW do you draw the line? And one so clear at that?

Serious question here...


Right now it's rather you who is harking back on a long gone past...past hostilities...past glory...past energy resources! Old and sclerotic....set in old ways...unable to dream of a better future.

Against you Germany and the EU look pubescend actually! They at least have dreams and visions....

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Most others here manage quite well....how do they do that?


The horse riders of old surely thought the same as the new born automobiles stuttered and struggled over the then still non-existing streets....

But as I said, then don't complain if Poland will also in the future stay only the supplier to the future german green-tech-industry! It's not our fault if you refuse to put yourself on top of the technological chain, you only get there with visions and taking risk! (The mocking from the horse-riders on the sidelines for any failures included)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Ooops Spikey, you are slipping....and here I started to believe you as you said that you wanted to discuss seriously...

The "Energiewende" is an extremely ambitious project, something most other countries don't even try to achieve. Poland should join it, then it will have something to be proud of, to show off and to sell of in a few years.

But you have no real visions of your own, don't you? Just some power games....

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

....I will believe in Schönefeld when they really open it...not before!

Buuuut...to stay on topic...as the capital of the mighty Intermarium Berlin would need Tegel AND Schönefeld....and maybe Tempelhof again too...

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


And as a honorary Prussian I'm so totally biased! :)


Honestly.....anything with "...for the people" innit leaves a bad aftertaste now after two brutal dictatorships! They kinda burned it for the naming...


Okay...now I have to ask...what's the number one?

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


It's NICE!!!

...and the ultimate finger to the german communists who had destroyed the real thing and build their palace in it's place. Now who has the last laugh, HA! :)


Yeah...in as much as socialism generally is "for the people", right? Riiiiiiight! That's why they had to shoot people who wanted to leave that republic with it's palace....

Btw. it's for you too:

"...A palace is being rebuilt in the heart of the city, not as a seat for kings and kaisers - but as a museum for the whole world and all the diversity of its cultures..."

visitberlin.de/en/humboldt-forum-berlin-city-palace

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


It was found out that the old Palace of the Republic had been build with asbestos, so it was first closed and later demolished.

In it's place has been rebuild the prussian Berlin Palace of old....kind of....



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_the_Republic,_Berlin

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Palace#Reconstruction


Make it the capital! :)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

Why not? They can't be worse than Berliners....

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

Gerpolia's football team would so ruuuuuule!!!! :)

*wanders off dreaming*

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

...ja genau....we only ever beat you at footie now!!!

(And even that might be over now too)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Where did I do that?

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


We never have....we should start though.....just take a look at german big names and tell me which one of those are owned solely by Germans anymore!


Again....good luck with that! A big lure to get big firms and many jobs to you (or keep them there) is the exception from taxes (between other bribes)....it's a shark pool out there.

Maybe your Konfederacja will manage to work miracles where every other country failed....Germany (and I) will observe with interest!


PS: Game developing is such a niche technology like high green tech would be....nothing everybody and their grandmom does....that's the way!

But right now Games aren't feeding a whole population...(sadly:)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Yeah....that's why China has bought out so much of the german industry (and with it old engineering skill and knowledge)....

Tell me more of this protection please!!!


Good luck with that!

All of these world wide successful brand names work and employ globally...and they are owned multi-nationally by their shareholders from all over the world (and China).

Your famous, competitive, rich company owned only by Poles and employing only Poles is only an illusion! (But so would be the same in the german variant).

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Then don't complain in a few years why others are again more competitive than you.....

With the research, developing and engineering comes highly sellable knowledge and skill for the whole high tech industry!
(Whereas everybody and their grandmom does nuclear...or even worse, coal!)


So, you want only what's best for a multi-national corporation with global interests but not for Janusz? Interesting....


The final profit is only higer because the seller could save wages and salaries with employing much cheaper foreign supplier...

Polish firms do the same, the moment they can heighten the profit through cutting wages they will relocate their production lines to somewhere cheaper. Great for the polish company, not so great for Janusz!

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


....apparently I don't! :)


So, the polish supplier doesn't make a profit because of it's paid labour? The polish labourer and their families don't live better than without working for this supplier? Maybe the german company should employ german labourer in Germany again? The german unemployed would be grateful, for sure...

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

Maybe that's just natural....the US has to suffer the same, all these conspiracy theories against the US between even longtime allies populations...

That's why I think all bigger powers, be it politically and/or economically, have to live with a certain amount of suspicion, hate and fear, especially from neighbours....there is not much to be done about it....it's not going away not matter what.

Once Poland rises up enough there will be for sure a "Spike" on some forum calling to be watchful of Poland and to take care it doesn't get's to powerful...heh:)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

...and I still don't know where the end goals of Germany and Poland differ so greatly?

Stability?
Freedom?
Safety?

What?

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Think about the future! The future is green tech....to invest now in a technology which is already old fashioned and being phased out is not smart! You should put your country on top of the skill- and engineering chain, then you can demand later any price you want. The bigger the technological gap to the rest of the world the better!


...and here I thought you are getting paid for your labour! :)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Poland should go into high-green-tech and leave old stinkers like coal behind.....there lies a golden future.

Actually Germany is reliant on it's suppliers much more than the other way around....this pandemia was a good lesson for us. We depend on continous and reliable deliveries....that's not a nice feeling either!

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Erm....

Which country on Earth develops it's economy "complimentary" to another country? And which one demands that???


Good luck with that!

Right now big parts of the german industry is concerned about being bought out by chinese capital....but I guess you have no problems with that?


We buy chinese! Even if it's crap, just because it's cheaper.....

Spike, I have to wonder about your view of Germany...I fear it's not very realistic at all!

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


What exactly IS the best interest of Poland? And how do you define the best interest of Germany? And I mean the end goal, the long term goal!


What exactly?

Not to mention the other member of the 3SI? How do you plan to direct them to help to fulfill Polands end goal? If that's really so different to Germany's and every others...

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


And if nobody had showed up you would point it out as a sure sign of Germany's "fear"!

Right now anything Germany does or does not is a "proof" in your mind of Germany's fear or ignorance or hostility against Poland, isn't it....


There is no need for Germany to be a member....the 3SI members are also members of the EU after all.


What is it's direction now?


???


Political freedom, military security, economical stability.....yeah....totally incompatible!

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


Why do you say that?

I don't know about Russia but at the latest summits some of german big wigs attended (foreign minister Maas and even german president Steinmeier).

Not to mention that many of the members are quite germany-friendly (the Baltics, Croatia, Austria)....what has Germany to fear??? And Hungary for sure is quite Russia-friendly...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Seas_Initiative


You shouldn't really put all your apples in a bag so fickle like the personal likes and dislikes of a president who will be gone after the next term at most. After Trump is gone the EU will still be there...just saying! :)

And to lick the boots of the US and/or China to gain their support doesn't mean sovereignity for Poland at all....you will never be an equal partner to them, contrary to your place in the EU, if you would commit to it fully!

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


How could they not...we are cute! :)

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


It doesn't matter IF you do...alone because you are the biggest member will make fellow member suspicious....soon fellow member will lament a "polonization" of the Intermarium...that it only exist to support Poland and to exploit everybody else...politicians in the other member states will make it a policy to gain voters with hostility against Poland...

Welcome! :)

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


For whom?