Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
That is new to me....
and most Poles wants to leave the EU.
That is new to me....
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
*nods*
Western Europe has had decades more time get on an equal footing. I'm looking at the relationship between another set of once-arch enemies, France and Germany. Decades of sending schoolkids back and forth put an end to that. Tourism, university-exchanges etc...that all did their job.
Today it is nigh unthinkable for modern Frenchies and Germans to go back to the old hate...maybe in a few decades in the future it will be the same between Germany and Poland.
It's easier to hate an unknown country than a real life person...
*nods*
Western Europe has had decades more time get on an equal footing. I'm looking at the relationship between another set of once-arch enemies, France and Germany. Decades of sending schoolkids back and forth put an end to that. Tourism, university-exchanges etc...that all did their job.
Today it is nigh unthinkable for modern Frenchies and Germans to go back to the old hate...maybe in a few decades in the future it will be the same between Germany and Poland.
It's easier to hate an unknown country than a real life person...
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
Wrong? ...Even you know that a huge majority of the Poles is pro-EU. These polls even make the international headlines, your "polls" don't. Doesn't it make you wonder?
For your links I have to use Google translate and there isn't even a background to these "polls"...
And then there are real polls and surveys:
independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-eu-membership-support-for-membership-courts-rule-of-law-mateusz-morawiecki-juncker-a8149876.html
politico.eu/article/germany-poland-no-longer-seen-as-threat-poll/
I would like to know, what do you think about Korwin-Mikke and his statements?
Wrong? ...Even you know that a huge majority of the Poles is pro-EU. These polls even make the international headlines, your "polls" don't. Doesn't it make you wonder?
For your links I have to use Google translate and there isn't even a background to these "polls"...
And then there are real polls and surveys:
Support for EU membership reaches record high in Poland despite showdown with Brussels
independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-eu-membership-support-for-membership-courts-rule-of-law-mateusz-morawiecki-juncker-a8149876.html
Germany no longer seen as 'threat' in Poland: poll
politico.eu/article/germany-poland-no-longer-seen-as-threat-poll/
Majority of Germans and Poles want to focus on 'future,' despite fraught history, according to survey.
I would like to know, what do you think about Korwin-Mikke and his statements?
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
The same reason why these people would make derogatory comments about Poles....plain ignorance. *shrugs*
Most of them never put a foot either into Ossi-land nor Poland...which leads me back to Tacitus' and mine main argument that this dislike stems from a lack of actual "knowing" besides hearing bad stuff about a PiS gov in Warsaw.
Germans like to travel around, but still mainly western and southern Europe. Abit more tourism eastwards would change things big in a good way...win-win situation.
I used Google to translate this page and it gave out such stuff like this:
...Interestingly, the majority of young people, despite their right-wing outlook, do not support the ruling party, or PiS. This should not come as a surprise, because this party has little to do with the pure right. Therefore, the young would be happy to support the Kukiz'15 group, as many as 27 percent of them, and 19 percent of Janusz Korwin-Mikke's party - Freedom.
That goes against all known surveys and Polls I know off. Korwin-Mikke is an absolute fringe outsider, even between polish nationalists. And what is "pure right"?
That reminds me more about another survey you posted a few days back...that 90% Poles are anti-EU or something like that. Also made by a Korwin-Mikke friendly party...
Frankly, I doubt that!
But I have to agree that it is the likes of Korwin-Mikke who make not only Germans shake their heads about Poland (if that is all they learn about the country and its people).
Korwin-Mikke and his statements like:
I frankly doubt that 66% of the young Poles would support THAT!
and they would always be derogatory about East Germans, I don't have a clue why!!
The same reason why these people would make derogatory comments about Poles....plain ignorance. *shrugs*
Most of them never put a foot either into Ossi-land nor Poland...which leads me back to Tacitus' and mine main argument that this dislike stems from a lack of actual "knowing" besides hearing bad stuff about a PiS gov in Warsaw.
Germans like to travel around, but still mainly western and southern Europe. Abit more tourism eastwards would change things big in a good way...win-win situation.
Young generation of Poles has mostly right-wing and centre right-wing political views
I used Google to translate this page and it gave out such stuff like this:
...Interestingly, the majority of young people, despite their right-wing outlook, do not support the ruling party, or PiS. This should not come as a surprise, because this party has little to do with the pure right. Therefore, the young would be happy to support the Kukiz'15 group, as many as 27 percent of them, and 19 percent of Janusz Korwin-Mikke's party - Freedom.
That goes against all known surveys and Polls I know off. Korwin-Mikke is an absolute fringe outsider, even between polish nationalists. And what is "pure right"?
That reminds me more about another survey you posted a few days back...that 90% Poles are anti-EU or something like that. Also made by a Korwin-Mikke friendly party...
Frankly, I doubt that!
But I have to agree that it is the likes of Korwin-Mikke who make not only Germans shake their heads about Poland (if that is all they learn about the country and its people).
Korwin-Mikke and his statements like:
Polish politician says women should earn less because 'they are weaker, they are smaller, they are less intelligent'
During a discussion about what constitutes rape, he asked: "Raped, what does it mean raped?"
I frankly doubt that 66% of the young Poles would support THAT!
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
The problem as I see it is that the Germans here at PF actually like Poles...me, Tacitus...Intermarium even thinks about relocating to Poland...
So it comes down to Poles (often not even from Poland at all) confirming each other about how much they dislike the Germans right back!
That leads to nowhere, I fear....
The thread is about reasons why Germans might not like Poles.
The problem as I see it is that the Germans here at PF actually like Poles...me, Tacitus...Intermarium even thinks about relocating to Poland...
So it comes down to Poles (often not even from Poland at all) confirming each other about how much they dislike the Germans right back!
That leads to nowhere, I fear....
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]
Hmm...I doubt that.
The foundation of the V4 was an interesting step, the idea had alot going for it. But the reality shows they don't live removed from the rest of Europe on a happy island...
Prerequisite factors for building a solid block of states in this part of the world without Russian or German meddling definitely exist.
Hmm...I doubt that.
The foundation of the V4 was an interesting step, the idea had alot going for it. But the reality shows they don't live removed from the rest of Europe on a happy island...
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]
I don't think he makes any decisions to "hit" Russia...he wants to support US firms selling expensive LNG"s and as long as you buy from him instead from the rival you are a "goodie" in his black book...that's a small but important difference, remember "MAGA".
The same with the INF treaty....the Kreml won't be now anymore oblieged to keep to the treaty either, which opens the doors to a new weapons race.
edition.cnn.com/2019/02/02/europe/russia-inf-treaty-intl/index.html
How cuddly for all countries between them, right?
There is nothing pro-polish or pro-V4 or anti-russian about Trumps decisions. I wouldn't bet on him when the **** hits the fan...
....So he can publicly tap Putin on the back but in his Oval office he's still making decisions which hits Russia.
I don't think he makes any decisions to "hit" Russia...he wants to support US firms selling expensive LNG"s and as long as you buy from him instead from the rival you are a "goodie" in his black book...that's a small but important difference, remember "MAGA".
The same with the INF treaty....the Kreml won't be now anymore oblieged to keep to the treaty either, which opens the doors to a new weapons race.
"They announced that they are engaged in research & technological development work, and we will do the same."
edition.cnn.com/2019/02/02/europe/russia-inf-treaty-intl/index.html
How cuddly for all countries between them, right?
There is nothing pro-polish or pro-V4 or anti-russian about Trumps decisions. I wouldn't bet on him when the **** hits the fan...
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]
...and you totally avoided the core of my question, the sympathies by some of V4's members for Putin's Russia.
Russia doesn't want anymore US meddling in Europe, Trump seems to agree with that. So do the Russian-sympathizers in Europe....
I that regard the anti-refugee engine will run on empty very soon, as the quota-idea is now dead for good, and the numbers for newly incoming refugees are sinking lower and lower.
But the Russia-question still stands and will gain importance!
...and you totally avoided the core of my question, the sympathies by some of V4's members for Putin's Russia.
Russia doesn't want anymore US meddling in Europe, Trump seems to agree with that. So do the Russian-sympathizers in Europe....
I that regard the anti-refugee engine will run on empty very soon, as the quota-idea is now dead for good, and the numbers for newly incoming refugees are sinking lower and lower.
But the Russia-question still stands and will gain importance!
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
I think Spike here thinks himself and Poland superior to Germans, am I right? :)
I think Spike here thinks himself and Poland superior to Germans, am I right? :)
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]
What about V4 generally? Do you think it is viable in the long run, with it's members split on Russia? How should any US backing solve that?
Of course, this move is against both: Russian and German interests and they'll do anything to stop it, but with the US backing we can make it happen.
What about V4 generally? Do you think it is viable in the long run, with it's members split on Russia? How should any US backing solve that?
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
Wise words! I would agree...
When you don't know anybody personally, all you have to fall back on are stories...
If you don't know someone your likes and dislike are guided by stereotypes and prejudices.
Wise words! I would agree...
When you don't know anybody personally, all you have to fall back on are stories...
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
Do you? Then why do you dismiss Tacitus' and mine opinion about that?
No. I really want to discuss German attitude.
Do you? Then why do you dismiss Tacitus' and mine opinion about that?
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
What do you think the Germans in these surveys did? The reason why you started that thread....
Do you think disliking Poles is stigmatized in Germany?
Wouldn't that be rather cool (for Poles)? :)
What do you think the Germans in these surveys did? The reason why you started that thread....
Do you think disliking Poles is stigmatized in Germany?
Wouldn't that be rather cool (for Poles)? :)
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
So...it's really more about the Poles than the Germans, right?
So...it's really more about the Poles than the Germans, right?
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
So...is that in truth about polish dislike of Germany?
Because I always ever meet Poles using the history as a reason to distrust/dislike Germans, never the other way around....
So...is that in truth about polish dislike of Germany?
Because I always ever meet Poles using the history as a reason to distrust/dislike Germans, never the other way around....
Bratwurst Boy
3 Feb 2019
History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]
IMHO it's the other way around....when you feel disrespected and don't get the attention you want and you think you deserve that's much more of a reason to dislike someone and call him "arrogant".
I really don't think you will find many Germans who will say they deem the Poles inferior! :)
PS: You can claim reasons 2 and 3 also for Greece (messy, unorganized, badly run etc.). But still many Germans like Greeks nonetheless and spend their holiday every year there to get fried in the sun.
I think that's the main reason, I agree with Tacitus on that. Poland as a holiday destination has surely room to grow and with meeting and getting to know each others the sympathies will rise.
If one feels superior, it is natural to despise and dislike someone whom you deem inferior, in this case Poles.
IMHO it's the other way around....when you feel disrespected and don't get the attention you want and you think you deserve that's much more of a reason to dislike someone and call him "arrogant".
I really don't think you will find many Germans who will say they deem the Poles inferior! :)
PS: You can claim reasons 2 and 3 also for Greece (messy, unorganized, badly run etc.). But still many Germans like Greeks nonetheless and spend their holiday every year there to get fried in the sun.
I think that's the main reason, I agree with Tacitus on that. Poland as a holiday destination has surely room to grow and with meeting and getting to know each others the sympathies will rise.
Bratwurst Boy
2 Feb 2019
History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]
I'm not sure....I wonder about that actually.
Putin tries to break up the EU, he get's his claws into the V4, then into the Brussel-opposition of it's core members....he pays them, uses paid trolls, his RT and Sputnik propaganda etc......
What use is a hostile Poland to him? PiS is Brussels-sceptic...check...but that leaves Poland rather isolated in Brussels but not much else and his added hostility to Russia makes it not usable for the Kremlins goals actually.
Putin doesn't gains anything from a Poland which shoots to both sides...
I'm not sure....I wonder about that actually.
Putin tries to break up the EU, he get's his claws into the V4, then into the Brussel-opposition of it's core members....he pays them, uses paid trolls, his RT and Sputnik propaganda etc......
What use is a hostile Poland to him? PiS is Brussels-sceptic...check...but that leaves Poland rather isolated in Brussels but not much else and his added hostility to Russia makes it not usable for the Kremlins goals actually.
Putin doesn't gains anything from a Poland which shoots to both sides...
Bratwurst Boy
2 Feb 2019
History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]
So...do you think it's one sided from Moscow only? What would they get out of it?
So...do you think it's one sided from Moscow only? What would they get out of it?
Bratwurst Boy
2 Feb 2019
History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]
Agreed!
Orban is by far not as hostile to Putin/Russia as PiS-Warsaw wishes, quite the contrary. They are not that steadfast allies in Brussels either (Tusk election)...
irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-and-viktor-orban-hail-ties-and-discuss-energy-and-finance-1.3633439
I wonder if there ever will be a functional, close V4 without Hungary and the Czechs....
euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/the-v4-will-never-agree-on-russia/
What makes it so difficult for Warsaw seems to be the little fact that most if not all possible anti-Brussel allies are also deeply in Putin's pocket. Wich makes any anti-Brussel + anti-Putin stance by PiS to a quite isolated and hardly viable one, longterm....
especially for countries such as Hungary which have just signed lovely long term deals with Gazprom.
Agreed!
Orban is by far not as hostile to Putin/Russia as PiS-Warsaw wishes, quite the contrary. They are not that steadfast allies in Brussels either (Tusk election)...
Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orban hail ties and discuss energy and finance
irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-and-viktor-orban-hail-ties-and-discuss-energy-and-finance-1.3633439
I wonder if there ever will be a functional, close V4 without Hungary and the Czechs....
The V4 will never agree on Russia
euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/the-v4-will-never-agree-on-russia/
...The Hungarian government disguises its pro-Russian stance behind a mask of pragmatism.In the Czech Republic, conversely, President Miloš Zeman openly espouses pro-Russian views....
What makes it so difficult for Warsaw seems to be the little fact that most if not all possible anti-Brussel allies are also deeply in Putin's pocket. Wich makes any anti-Brussel + anti-Putin stance by PiS to a quite isolated and hardly viable one, longterm....
Bratwurst Boy
1 Feb 2019
Bratwurst Boy
1 Feb 2019
History / Why do Polish people hate to be called Eastern European? [120]
Proud to be European!
I wouldn't want to be called European these days...
Proud to be European!
Bratwurst Boy
23 Jan 2019
News / Pawel Adamowicz, Gdansk mayor, dies after stabbing [354]
So...everybody else is a "traitor to the people"?
Now why does that sound so familiar...what's next? The patriotic adults come knocking in the night? The Gulag?
Polish patriotic youth isn't too supportive of enemies of the motherland as one person pointed out
So...everybody else is a "traitor to the people"?
Now why does that sound so familiar...what's next? The patriotic adults come knocking in the night? The Gulag?
Bratwurst Boy
22 Jan 2019
Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]
And at least those of us with blue eyes share definitely the same ancestor, the first with that mutation, no matter if we identify today as Germans or Poles...heh:)
After 20 generations you already have a maximum of 1048575 ancestors.
And at least those of us with blue eyes share definitely the same ancestor, the first with that mutation, no matter if we identify today as Germans or Poles...heh:)
Bratwurst Boy
22 Jan 2019
News / Pawel Adamowicz, Gdansk mayor, dies after stabbing [354]
What is that online campaign about?
one online campaign hoping to raise 1000 has now raised four million which is very, very good
What is that online campaign about?
Bratwurst Boy
22 Jan 2019
News / Pawel Adamowicz, Gdansk mayor, dies after stabbing [354]
I would like to see something like that re-emerge...it would be great for these lands.
...as I said, in your mind only!
The german past of Danzig is very much alive and kicking...as the last minutes here in this very thread just proved! It even influenced if you were sad or happy about a murder!
I fear nobody is really "over it"! Or the temper/fear/anger/accusations wouldn't fly that high that quickly...
It was Hansa, and like several of the Hanseatic Cities and their former outposts/partner cities today, are special cases economically and culturally.
I would like to see something like that re-emerge...it would be great for these lands.
The German past of Gdańsk is very much irrelevant
...as I said, in your mind only!
The german past of Danzig is very much alive and kicking...as the last minutes here in this very thread just proved! It even influenced if you were sad or happy about a murder!
I fear nobody is really "over it"! Or the temper/fear/anger/accusations wouldn't fly that high that quickly...
Bratwurst Boy
22 Jan 2019
Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]
His family is of german heritage:
Donald Trump's paternal ancestry is traceable to Bobenheim am Berg, a village in the Palatinate, Germany, in the 18th century. Johann Trump, born in Bobenheim in 1789, moved to the nearby village of Kallstadt where his grandson, Friedrich Trump, the grandfather of Donald Trump, was born in 1869.
But I'm fairly sure he identifies fully as USian...
his parents are from there, he likes the food, he follows that religion
His family is of german heritage:
Donald Trump's paternal ancestry is traceable to Bobenheim am Berg, a village in the Palatinate, Germany, in the 18th century. Johann Trump, born in Bobenheim in 1789, moved to the nearby village of Kallstadt where his grandson, Friedrich Trump, the grandfather of Donald Trump, was born in 1869.
But I'm fairly sure he identifies fully as USian...
Bratwurst Boy
22 Jan 2019
Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]
I would add an emotional connection.
Imagine a football game (or any other team game you love)...let's say its between Germany and Poland....whom are you cheering for?
That is always a good question for any kind of immigrant....there are lots of Turks in Germany who have grown up and lived here in the now third generation (with german IDs by now) and still cheer for the turkish team when it comes to play Germany.
Citizenship is an official act, the culture you can learn about in school, but all that does nothing for the heart!
I would add an emotional connection.
Imagine a football game (or any other team game you love)...let's say its between Germany and Poland....whom are you cheering for?
That is always a good question for any kind of immigrant....there are lots of Turks in Germany who have grown up and lived here in the now third generation (with german IDs by now) and still cheer for the turkish team when it comes to play Germany.
Citizenship is an official act, the culture you can learn about in school, but all that does nothing for the heart!
Bratwurst Boy
22 Jan 2019
Off-Topic / American Jew Voice in Poland [93]
Do you have a link?
A CNN survey of Europeans found that about one third of them said they knew nothing or very little about the Holocaust.
Do you have a link?
Bratwurst Boy
22 Jan 2019
Life / Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage. [237]
Yes, time matters...there is such a thing as mixing, intermarrying through the centuries...you know :)
I call them "Germoles"! :) Only separated by politics. Some of them have german surnames, some of them have polish surnames, some of them grew up as Poles, some of them grew up as Germans, but their ethnicity is forever mixed. There must be millions of them by now...a whole new country!
It really doesn't matter how far back it goes.
Yes, time matters...there is such a thing as mixing, intermarrying through the centuries...you know :)
I call them "Germoles"! :) Only separated by politics. Some of them have german surnames, some of them have polish surnames, some of them grew up as Poles, some of them grew up as Germans, but their ethnicity is forever mixed. There must be millions of them by now...a whole new country!