News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@Bratwurst Boy
.
You might wanna look up the predicted consequences of climate change on parts of the world if we can not limit it to a certain threshold. We are not talking about government corruption or a few more hot days per year.


Trouble is, they may not leave us alone at a certain point. And if things really come to happen as experts fear, then there will be no way for us to refuse them.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@Bratwurst Boy


Yeah, but now it is happening due to our own actions. And much faster than it used to.


Really? Our socities grew rich due to using fossil fuels for centuries. Some countries are still poor, and are facing extinction due to our actions and those of our ancestors. If there is a case for reparations, it is this one.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@GefreiterKania


Yea we are. The EU and its' member states are legally commited to the 2050 target.


As of right now, maybe. But with the onset of climate change and its' negative consequences, it will become impossible to differ between those two causes. It is entirely possible that large parts of Africa and the Middle East will become inhospitable. If you look carefully, there are even parts of Spain, France and Italy that are threatened by desertification. Right now you can justify sending economic migrants back to e.g. Namibia or Ghana, since they "only" face poverty there, not threats to their very survival. Once simple water becomes scarce, that justification goes out the window. We either get serious about fighting climate change, or we'll have to learn sharing our continent for real. In the latter case we won't get away with "only" 3-4 million migrants per year.


Reparations will become a part of it. And really, it is hard to deny them from a moral point of view to e.g. people who lived on island that disappear due to climate change. Technology and education is nice and all, but of little use if the very land you are standing on disappears.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]


We can argue on how to achieve this target.

But the target itself is not in question. We are legally and morally obligated to become emission neutral by 2050. Which will require effort and money. But there is no acceptable alternative.

Some people believe that migration is a pressing problem right now. I wonder how they'd react if Climate change forces a bn people from the ME and Africa to migrate to Europe because their homes become literally unliveable. And unlike now, there would be no justifiable way to refuse them.


I thought the ban was on newly built vehicles, not ones still in service?

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@GefreiterKania


Could, but wouldn't. That is just humane nature. We rarely spend money on not-immedeately threatening issues. And without that pressure, it is highly unlikely we would have achieved the little success that we have.


And prices have been barely starting to go up the until recently due to various political compromises.Those half measures had negative effect on the effectivness of the certificates, though it seems now that we will finally see appropiate increases until 2030.


That is a silly strawman. There is no comparable entity to the EU elsewhere.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@GefreiterKania

Because that approach worked so well the last 30 years...

The new approach compensates for the damage done by CO emissions and put pressure on us to innovate.


Someone has to make a start. And some of the countries have already taken more drastic steps to to reduce CO emissions in the past. If we in Europe had done the same, then some of our recent steps might not be necessary. Now the situation is getting desperate. Either we innovate or we will lose our industries. The idea that we can somehow muddle through with slow changes while China and the USA are leaving us in the dust is absurd.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@GefreiterKania
Does a ton CO weigh less in Poland than in the Netherlands? Does one ton of CO2 from Poland affect the world climate less than one emitted by Luxembourg?

Poland is not a poor developing country. CO output is a resource like any other and there are costs related to it. And given Poland's dependency on coal and smog problems, there is hardly cause for leniency there.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@GefreiterKania


Those CO2 quotas are necessary for two reasons. One they put pressure on the industry to innovate and reduce CO emmission, and the need for innovation has been a driving factor of Two they put an end to the idea that CO2 are free and not directly harmful to our planet. This will hopefully be considered in our favour once the issue of reparations from the industrialized world to countries who are affected by Climate change the most will be raised (which let us be clear, will become an issue down the line and very difficult to refute).

@Ironside


That seems to be the most realistic outcome. Though I would argue that anything but an outright Russian victory - given the vast discrepancies in means and ressources at the beginning of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine - should be considered a success. A success that will be expensive, with Europe having to assist Ukraine after the war is over, but cheaper than than the alternative. Better for Poland to pay a few bn to Kiev each year than to have an almost uninterrupted border with Russia from the Baltic Sea down to Lwiv.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@GefreiterKania

I don't know about Polish coal mines, Germany is preparing to close the German ones by the 2030s.


All sensible policies. Combustion engines will most likely be dead by the early 2030s anyway. The German companies really dropped the ball there. Without those drastic measures, none of the Europeans stay competetive.


They do however give a f*ck about reneweable energy. Both countries are heavily investing into those forms of energy, and it is starting to pay off for them.

e360.yale.edu/features/china-renewable-energy

Those types of energy are the future. If we do not adapt accordingly, we will indeed poor.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

Not sure what you mean with Green policies As I see it, Poland is not forced to repeat the German folly of shutting down your nuclear plants (instead it is building new ones) while pushing reneweables over fossil fuels is objectively speaking the right call and necessary if Europe does not fall behind the USA and China on this market. That is one issue where the Greens are unmistakeably right

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@Ironside


The current German government is generally interested in having positive relations with Poland, is on the same page on Ukraine and supports the membership of organizations that are essential to Poland's security (NATO and EU) and is supporting the placement of american missiles in Germany that would also help to protect Poland.

The AfD wants to leave the EU and NATO (destroying the former and fatally undermining the latter), would doom Ukraine and leave Poland to deal with the fallout, and would certainly pursue less positive ties with Poland due to revisionist views on the Third Reich. I get it that the present state often looks unsatiafactory, but you should not dismiss the value of the current relationship for Poland. There is a lot to be lost if the AfD took power.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@Miloslaw


I'd call more than twice as much for 2024 more than "slightly more". And that is on top of caring for 10x as many Ukrainian refugees and the substantial economic and humanitarian aid we give Ukraine.


Sure, as I see it, it is more effective to give weapons to Ukraine than to rearm our BW. The same goes Poland, it would be smarter to donate the latest increase of the defence budget to Ukraine than to put it into Polish stocks. Or at least find a good balance between restocking with modern weapons and sensing modern weapons to Ukraine.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@Miloslaw


I'd say giving more money and weapons than any other European country while housing the most refugees and having to compensate other countries for the aid they give in sorm shape or form (via EPF, Ring exchange, or sending them replacements from Switzerland) is a pretty solid contribution.

Like, I get it that Germany could always do more and if you asked me, we should have invested more into aiding Ukraine than some of the newly introduced welfare programs of the Scholz government. But claiming that Germany is doing little is honestly ridiculous. The UK - who could be argued have a much stronger responsibility for Ukraine as a party to the Budapest referendum - are spending less than half of what Germany does on lethal aid (never mind the refugees) this year. And they are still miles ahead of the likes of Italy and France. And at some point the money and material will run out. Not saying that this is smart, or that it would not be better to send more aid. But even Warsaw has followed the logic a year ago when it seized new deliveries to Ukraine.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@Bratwurst Boy


Well, you probably know that this is is just one of the first steps the AfD wants to implement. There is a logic behind it. Start with steps most people get behind and then gradually ease them in with more radical ones.

Besides, no decent person can vote dor Björn Höcke.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

@pawian


Sorry, but that is a pretty idiotic take if true.

Germany under Scholz has become Ukraine's largest European supplier of aid and has also accepted more than 1m Ukrainian refugees.

An AfD government would stop all aid to Ukraine, and after the inevitable collapse of the country would make sure that Poland would be stuck dealing with the newly arriving Ukrainian refugees

As frustrating as Scholz may be, he is infinitely preferable to the AfD.

News / Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment? [540]

I really hope that those leads to Kiev turn out to be false. Otherwise this is going to become incredible damaging for Ukraine down the line.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

@Ironside


I am not worried and what deficit are you talking about?

I was just pointing out that Poland is worried about its future share in the reconstruction of Ukraine (which is imho a rather cynical topic to bring up at a point when Ukraine's future is far from secured), it could always send desperately needed weapons to Ukraine. Particulary air defence systems are the best advertisement. I am told most people in Kiev can recognize the sound of the Gepard guns at heart by now.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

Besides if Poland is worried about their "share", they can always restart donating modern weapons to Ukraine.

It is nice to know though at least one part of our industry is still cutting edge.

News / Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany? [1440]

@Novichok

Show some decency for a change and don't compare your misgivings with our liberal societies with Nazi Germany. You are downplaying the suffering of the people who actually had to live through those times.

History / Its decided. If Germany interfere in Silesia, Russia would support Poland. New winds [17]

Crow is simply projecting his own desires on others.

He dreams of war and violence against those his country has historical grievances with, and can only imagine that others feel the same.

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [317]

Genuine question regarding the Three Seas:

Does anyone really think, that the actions of Orban's Hungary and Fico's Slovakia align more with Poland's interests than what Germany is doing? Or how Austria's neutrality? How about Greek reluctance to provide Ukraine with some of its' impressive weapons arsenal?

I understand that we Germans can be hard to work with, but it seems to me that the alternatives are hardly appealing as well.

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [317]

The idea of Brexit was supposedly that the UK could negotiate alone and get better conditions. If you wre unhappy with the French, you'll need to make them a better offer.

Honestly, the French are looking like the real winners of Brexit. Amongst the EU there is now one less voice against their economic fantasies. They managed to grab the EBA and improved the standing of Paris as a financial center. They get to improve on may standing deals they have with the UK. And Macron is now using the Ukraine war to become the undisputed leader of Europe. Napoleon could have only dreamt of the Brits making such a mistake.

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [317]

@jon357


1/4 of it was and it seems to me that most German investors in Poland are from West Germany. Miele, Bosch, Mercedes ALDI just to name a few.


Accumulating money takes time. And I am sure it would go well amongst the Polish public if the government decides: "Here Company X, you get a tax write-off, invest the money into Germany so that we can balance the investments".

Given that Germany has currently a problem to attract foreign investors, with many domestic investors instead investing into foreign markets, I fail to see the problem for Poland here. Be happy that you are a target for investments and suffering from capital flight.


Do you really want to pretend that this kind of concern is unique to Germans? A quick search reveals tons of articles describing risks and concerns regarding the take-over of British companies by foreign investors. Sometimes those concerns are legitimate, especially when it can mean the loss of a strategic industry.

As for newspapers engaging in xenophobic scaremongering against foreign competitors... That is really thin ice here.

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [317]

I'd argue that concern over the loss of competivness through undercutting of standards is something that drives all governments. And indeed, that may become particulary thorny issue between Poland and Ukraine once the latter joins the EU and the free market.

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [317]

@jon357


Nothing shocking about this. Just an inevitable result of having an economy that suffered from 45 years of communist rule compared to one that did not. One side has a result wealthy investors, the other side has not. We have a similar disparity between West and East Germany.

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [317]

@Ironside
I think we can both admit that it wasn't just Berlin who was being stubborn and noncooperative... .

History / 20 years of Poland in the EU. [317]

So I take it there are really Poles who take Kaczynski's mad rantings about Tusk being a "German agent" seriously?

News / Polish coal will be back [141]

As someone from the Ruhr Valley I can see the charm of coal and its' value to the community. But knowing the damage it does to the planet and the fact it is also increasing the risk of lung diseases, it is for the best once its' no longer used.

Off-Topic / The case of Srebrenica, stance of Poland and international consequences [31]

@Crow


I am ignoring things that you make up. It has been established that thousands of people were murdered by the Bosnian Serb army. The International Tribunal has soundly rejected any defense of the genocide with previously real or fictional crimes commited by muslims. Ratko Mladic has been convicted for this atrocity and now serves a life-sentence.

To quote the ruling of the tribunal.

"By seeking to eliminate a part of the Bosnian Muslims, the Bosnian Serb forces committed genocide. They targeted for extinction the 40,000 Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica, a group which was emblematic of the Bosnian Muslims in general. They stripped all the male Muslim prisoners, military and civilian, elderly and young, of their personal belongings and identification, and deliberately and methodically killed them solely on the basis of their identity.["

Off-Topic / The case of Srebrenica, stance of Poland and international consequences [31]

@Crow


You can' have a dialogue if one person makes up things and denies basic facts. The truth about the genocide in Srebenica is well-documented and has been established in numerous trials. If given the choice, no sane person would disregard this evidence in favour of the ranting of some crazy person on the internet.