Foreigner4
9 Jan 2013
Foreigner4
9 Jan 2013
Life / News on driving in Poland [57]
^
No but you did a nice job of countering 1 extreme for another. That being said, I think there is a middle ground from complete lawlessness and complete control.
How would you feel if you lost a loved one due to a drunk driver?
^
No but you did a nice job of countering 1 extreme for another. That being said, I think there is a middle ground from complete lawlessness and complete control.
How would you feel if you lost a loved one due to a drunk driver?
Foreigner4
9 Jan 2013
Life / News on driving in Poland [57]
I don't see where that answers my questions: Why have any laws at all then? <<<<that's the main one.
Is anarchy not the fullest expression of freedom to do?
I don't see where that answers my questions: Why have any laws at all then? <<<<that's the main one.
Is anarchy not the fullest expression of freedom to do?
Foreigner4
9 Jan 2013
News / Achievements of the Tusk's Polish government [538]
I don't get it, what is the fascination with Tusk? Is it simply that his last name isn't Kaczyński?
I don't get it, what is the fascination with Tusk? Is it simply that his last name isn't Kaczyński?
Foreigner4
9 Jan 2013
Genealogy / Polish looks? [1410]
I hate to burst your bubble but there do seem to be physical characteristics that identify someone as Slavic and dare I say even Polish. It is difficult to identify exactly what it is but even when I was living in London, despite the same clothing it was relatively easy to identify someone as Polish or generally Slavic as opposed to being English. Same thing back home where you'll see any and every ethnic background in society. Slavic features aren't a figment of our collective imagination and neither are Polish ones.
I hate to burst your bubble but there do seem to be physical characteristics that identify someone as Slavic and dare I say even Polish. It is difficult to identify exactly what it is but even when I was living in London, despite the same clothing it was relatively easy to identify someone as Polish or generally Slavic as opposed to being English. Same thing back home where you'll see any and every ethnic background in society. Slavic features aren't a figment of our collective imagination and neither are Polish ones.
Foreigner4
9 Jan 2013
Life / News on driving in Poland [57]
Why have any laws at all then? Is anarchy not the fullest expression of freedom to do?
Why have any laws at all then? Is anarchy not the fullest expression of freedom to do?
Foreigner4
31 Dec 2012
News / The quality of Polish media coverage [54]
WielkiPolak- unfortunately you are correct in every sense in your op. I wish I had answers but objectively I have to wonder if the majority are really stupid enough to buy into these dichotomies or if there isn't in fact a "divide and conquer" strategy being employed on the masses. Either way, we're fcuked.
WielkiPolak- unfortunately you are correct in every sense in your op. I wish I had answers but objectively I have to wonder if the majority are really stupid enough to buy into these dichotomies or if there isn't in fact a "divide and conquer" strategy being employed on the masses. Either way, we're fcuked.
Foreigner4
3 Dec 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
No, I don't, otherwise I'd have said so.
No, I don't, well not completely anymore. I do keep asking how wrong people think it is and based on that I'm curious as to what people are willing to do or not do.
Let's say you saw you're neighbor trying to hang a door and you knew they were doing it the wrong way, would you tell them or do nothing?
If you saw someone smoking while pregnant, would you say nothing or speak up?
I'm curious as to how "connected" people feel to society, so to speak. and of course I'm also curious as to "how" wrong other people see it.
For instance, if I saw someone doing something really dangerous, like "holy sh*t-balls you're not really going to use that equipment here and now" kind of dangerous around a pregnant woman, maybe I'd say, "uhhhh Lady, you really shouldn't be here."
If she persisted in being there and I knew her presence would kill her unborn child, I don't know what I would do. If people said "hey buddy it's none of your business?" then I really don't know what I'd do.
Do you know what you'd do in either scenario?
If you saw a little kid near some dangerous equipment (auger, plasma cutter, welder, grinders without guards, wood chipper- you get the idea) would you quickly intercept the little person's path to danger or stand by idle and observe?
If you can actually come up with a quantifiable reason why something is wrong then fine, I'm interested in where that might go.
People say they have standards and morals but go on doing a lot of "wrong" things every day and often don't care enough to change or don't care enough to know what they're doing is "wrong" even by their standards. If someone wants to say it's immoral then there's a good chance they're being more of a hypocrite than they (can?) imagine.
And then of course then that gets me asking "how immoral" but as of yet you're the only person to have answered that aspect of my questions.
F'n hell that was way longer than I wanted it to be. I should keep a 75 word cap on these.
Okay then, let's remove the word "sin" and use the words you really used to describe someone who seeks to get an abortion:
Is that the only type of person you envision or is there more to your thought process than that?
and the reason you do nothing about it is? or you do something to prevent it and you're just being humble?
Foreigner4,True,but you get the essential gist
No, I don't, otherwise I'd have said so.
you keep asking people what are people doing to stop it if they feel it is wrong.
No, I don't, well not completely anymore. I do keep asking how wrong people think it is and based on that I'm curious as to what people are willing to do or not do.
Let's say you saw you're neighbor trying to hang a door and you knew they were doing it the wrong way, would you tell them or do nothing?
If you saw someone smoking while pregnant, would you say nothing or speak up?
I'm curious as to how "connected" people feel to society, so to speak. and of course I'm also curious as to "how" wrong other people see it.
For instance, if I saw someone doing something really dangerous, like "holy sh*t-balls you're not really going to use that equipment here and now" kind of dangerous around a pregnant woman, maybe I'd say, "uhhhh Lady, you really shouldn't be here."
If she persisted in being there and I knew her presence would kill her unborn child, I don't know what I would do. If people said "hey buddy it's none of your business?" then I really don't know what I'd do.
Do you know what you'd do in either scenario?
If you saw a little kid near some dangerous equipment (auger, plasma cutter, welder, grinders without guards, wood chipper- you get the idea) would you quickly intercept the little person's path to danger or stand by idle and observe?
my point is that no matter what they are doing if it's wrong then its wrong.
If you can actually come up with a quantifiable reason why something is wrong then fine, I'm interested in where that might go.
People say they have standards and morals but go on doing a lot of "wrong" things every day and often don't care enough to change or don't care enough to know what they're doing is "wrong" even by their standards. If someone wants to say it's immoral then there's a good chance they're being more of a hypocrite than they (can?) imagine.
And then of course then that gets me asking "how immoral" but as of yet you're the only person to have answered that aspect of my questions.
F'n hell that was way longer than I wanted it to be. I should keep a 75 word cap on these.
I haven't mentioned religion with one word in this thread and my opinion about abortion has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Okay then, let's remove the word "sin" and use the words you really used to describe someone who seeks to get an abortion:
some thoughtless, irresponsible, party dolls who don't don't give a damn about the lives of their unborn babies?
Is that the only type of person you envision or is there more to your thought process than that?
why I feel about abortion the way I do and there's really nothing more to add to it.
and the reason you do nothing about it is? or you do something to prevent it and you're just being humble?
Foreigner4
3 Dec 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Well, on one end of your "abortion spectrum" you seem to be characterizing anyone who would seek an abortion as some immoral lowlife who only wants to pursue a life of sin. I am curious if you really believe that to be true or if there's more to your thought process than that.
p3undone asked me what I thought of it within the last couple pages and I twice answered "I don't know." If the meaning of these words escapes you, it would be of great irony but nonetheless, that, is my official F4 response.
Now, seeing as you quoted the following, it's clear you've also read it:
So why don't you try answering it if it interests you so much? Perhaps the question is too difficult and you simply don't know how to answer it. No shame in that man, if you don't know, you don't know.
I feel the smoking comparison is not a fair comparison. After all, we are not debating the effects of abortion on a woman's health, or the unborn's health, are we? Maybe you're looking at this comparison differently but I see it as a flawed comparison at the moment.
I don't know what you were trying to ask with the first part of your response so I cannot respond to that.
alternatives? What are you talking about, man?
Well, on one end of your "abortion spectrum" you seem to be characterizing anyone who would seek an abortion as some immoral lowlife who only wants to pursue a life of sin. I am curious if you really believe that to be true or if there's more to your thought process than that.
you said, it's wrong too, didn't you,
p3undone asked me what I thought of it within the last couple pages and I twice answered "I don't know." If the meaning of these words escapes you, it would be of great irony but nonetheless, that, is my official F4 response.
Now, seeing as you quoted the following, it's clear you've also read it:
: please state how wrong it is and if you're doing nothing to prevent it. Why/why not?
So why don't you try answering it if it interests you so much? Perhaps the question is too difficult and you simply don't know how to answer it. No shame in that man, if you don't know, you don't know.
if he/she were to tell you that smoking is harmful to your health;does it change the fact that cigarette smoking is harmful to your health.
I feel the smoking comparison is not a fair comparison. After all, we are not debating the effects of abortion on a woman's health, or the unborn's health, are we? Maybe you're looking at this comparison differently but I see it as a flawed comparison at the moment.
I don't know what you were trying to ask with the first part of your response so I cannot respond to that.
Foreigner4
2 Dec 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Jeez Louise people,
I thought we had made some progress in this discussion and in a couple of posts it's been knocked right back to the stone ages again.
Posts like this are what I'm talking about:
Are those really the only two alternatives you can imagine?
Open question:
If you believe abortion is "wrong" in some sense then please state how wrong it is and if you're doing nothing to prevent it. Why/why not?
That's your luxury but your inability to imagine a completely ********* situation and not wanting to bring another innocent person into that is something you should at least entertain. I think you should also consider that some people don't look at that form of life the same way you do, maybe they're not being immoral, they just don't understand things like you do and you don't understand things like they do.
Maybe people try to make the best decisions they can at the time and sometimes they just don't know any different. Maybe some people are just scared and they make some decisions out of fear, it doesn't mean they're immoral, it means they were afraid at the time and their judgment was off.
Open question:
What is "morally" defensible? Do you really want to go there?
The reason I ask is that you might be very surprised at how morally indefensible most people's lives are, including your own.
Buying stuff made from slave labour, is that morally defensible? Production facilities and mining operations are the places where much of our "stuff" comes from and people working there are treated...terribly, simply terribly. How can we buy anything made at such a cost to people's health and freedom?
Not taking care of your fellow brothers and sisters who have no home, is that morally defensible? Not helping to raise the children who either don't have parents or don't have good parents, is that morally defensible? How environmentally responsible are you? How much do you eat, more than you have to? You know there are starving people by the billions right?
Maybe some think it morally defensible not to bring a child into the world for whatever reasons they have. Maybe they're wrong but maybe they believe that have reasons, what makes you so sure your reasoning is right and theirs isn't?
Jeez Louise people,
I thought we had made some progress in this discussion and in a couple of posts it's been knocked right back to the stone ages again.
Posts like this are what I'm talking about:
why are we trying to compare responsible, children loving moms with some thoughtless, irresponsible, party dolls
Are those really the only two alternatives you can imagine?
Open question:
If you believe abortion is "wrong" in some sense then please state how wrong it is and if you're doing nothing to prevent it. Why/why not?
I can't see how that is morally defensible, and never will.
That's your luxury but your inability to imagine a completely ********* situation and not wanting to bring another innocent person into that is something you should at least entertain. I think you should also consider that some people don't look at that form of life the same way you do, maybe they're not being immoral, they just don't understand things like you do and you don't understand things like they do.
Maybe people try to make the best decisions they can at the time and sometimes they just don't know any different. Maybe some people are just scared and they make some decisions out of fear, it doesn't mean they're immoral, it means they were afraid at the time and their judgment was off.
Open question:
What is "morally" defensible? Do you really want to go there?
The reason I ask is that you might be very surprised at how morally indefensible most people's lives are, including your own.
Buying stuff made from slave labour, is that morally defensible? Production facilities and mining operations are the places where much of our "stuff" comes from and people working there are treated...terribly, simply terribly. How can we buy anything made at such a cost to people's health and freedom?
Not taking care of your fellow brothers and sisters who have no home, is that morally defensible? Not helping to raise the children who either don't have parents or don't have good parents, is that morally defensible? How environmentally responsible are you? How much do you eat, more than you have to? You know there are starving people by the billions right?
Maybe some think it morally defensible not to bring a child into the world for whatever reasons they have. Maybe they're wrong but maybe they believe that have reasons, what makes you so sure your reasoning is right and theirs isn't?
Foreigner4
25 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Okay.
My complete take:
I don't know.
What I was getting at is it appears that just might be more people's take on abortion whether they're admitting it or not.
What is your complete take?or will you not lay it out as I have?
Okay.
My complete take:
I don't know.
What I was getting at is it appears that just might be more people's take on abortion whether they're admitting it or not.
Foreigner4
24 Nov 2012
Foreigner4
24 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Have you ever stopped someone from doing something you thought of as "wrong?"
Oh come on now, just for old times' sake what exactly do mean by inconvenience. Because while you have laid out a scenario, I don't recall you describing how a woman would feel in that situation. Could you do that?
If a woman were to ask me do I think that abortion is wrong,I would say yes,but she would have to live with whatever decision she makes.
Have you ever stopped someone from doing something you thought of as "wrong?"
When I say out of inconvenience I mean in the way that I have stated numerous times in this thread.
Oh come on now, just for old times' sake what exactly do mean by inconvenience. Because while you have laid out a scenario, I don't recall you describing how a woman would feel in that situation. Could you do that?
Foreigner4
24 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
So you feel somewhat similar to the idea as I do. I had written the "same" but that was just wrong (like wrong enough to correct it kind of wrong).
And your definition of abortion may actually not be how others define it.
Okay. Good, you're doing well.
Now the conditions which you laid out are also interesting. You specified abortions selected out of inconvenience are the ones you oppose, is that correct?
So you feel somewhat similar to the idea as I do. I had written the "same" but that was just wrong (like wrong enough to correct it kind of wrong).
And your definition of abortion may actually not be how others define it.
Okay. Good, you're doing well.
Now the conditions which you laid out are also interesting. You specified abortions selected out of inconvenience are the ones you oppose, is that correct?
Foreigner4
24 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
How short of intentional murder? Seriously.
I think that abortion under the circumstances I have laid out is very wrong,but I have to say short of intentional murder.
How short of intentional murder? Seriously.
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
I explained why your question is invalid.
I don't have to explain anything after that as Gabbi has already done so, quite eloquently I may add, as she has been in this conversation as much as anyone else. You did not have problems diving in when I was in discussion with another member therefor you should have no qualms about her involvement.
You can pretend to assume what you want about what I was thinking but that's your ego talking. Maintain your position and behave like a moderator. Let it go man.
We're discussing something here so let us carry on with where the conversation has led us and tell us your views on how wrong you think it is? Where does it fit on your scale of wrongness.
I explained why your question is invalid.
I don't have to explain anything after that as Gabbi has already done so, quite eloquently I may add, as she has been in this conversation as much as anyone else. You did not have problems diving in when I was in discussion with another member therefor you should have no qualms about her involvement.
You can pretend to assume what you want about what I was thinking but that's your ego talking. Maintain your position and behave like a moderator. Let it go man.
We're discussing something here so let us carry on with where the conversation has led us and tell us your views on how wrong you think it is? Where does it fit on your scale of wrongness.
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Gabbi explained it. That's why we're now at this stage of the discussion: How wrong do you think it is? Where does abortion rank on your scale of wrongness?
Gabbi explained it. That's why we're now at this stage of the discussion: How wrong do you think it is? Where does abortion rank on your scale of wrongness?
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Then what are you doing to prevent it? You may think it wrong not to recycle but not chastise others for not following suit. You may think it's wrong to steal but not go out and apprehend thieves yourself. You may think it wrong to steal your car and there, you might actually step up and try to prevent it from happening. But if you really think what's going on is murder then how the hell do you tell yourself it's okay to do nothing about it. That's the part I can't figure out.
Foreigner4,I think it is wrong no more no less.
Then what are you doing to prevent it? You may think it wrong not to recycle but not chastise others for not following suit. You may think it's wrong to steal but not go out and apprehend thieves yourself. You may think it wrong to steal your car and there, you might actually step up and try to prevent it from happening. But if you really think what's going on is murder then how the hell do you tell yourself it's okay to do nothing about it. That's the part I can't figure out.
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Your question is flawed. It would force me to adopt a view point I do not hold if I answered either way. You have been denied.
Your question is flawed. It would force me to adopt a view point I do not hold if I answered either way. You have been denied.
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
I do not think that it is wrong to think it is wrong to do to yourself or to your unborn child.
again, that's where I feel I and others are in no position to weigh in on (save the father to be).
If a pregnant woman chooses to view her pregnancy and the form of life inside her differently than you or I then I don't consider it my right to tell her how to think. I could ask her some objective questions to help her get to an answer but it'd be unethical to guide her one way or the other.
Foreigner4,So do you think that it is wrong to think that it is wrong?
I do not think that it is wrong to think it is wrong to do to yourself or to your unborn child.
if it was all about her, I'd probably agree with you but we're talking about her deciding about the life of her child to be.
again, that's where I feel I and others are in no position to weigh in on (save the father to be).
If a pregnant woman chooses to view her pregnancy and the form of life inside her differently than you or I then I don't consider it my right to tell her how to think. I could ask her some objective questions to help her get to an answer but it'd be unethical to guide her one way or the other.
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Because it's not for me to say what a woman should or shouldn't do with her pregnancy. It's not for me to tell her how she should view the form of life inside her. It's not for me to tell her how she should weigh that conclusion as to what she thinks is best for the future.
I think I've been pretty consistent about this.
Oh look I've been straightforward in answering a question, again.
Because it's not for me to say what a woman should or shouldn't do with her pregnancy. It's not for me to tell her how she should view the form of life inside her. It's not for me to tell her how she should weigh that conclusion as to what she thinks is best for the future.
I think I've been pretty consistent about this.
Oh look I've been straightforward in answering a question, again.
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
I believe it was you and another member discussing who you'd choose to save in a delivery gone bad situation, the mother or the baby. Either way, the relevance that has seems to be tenuous to the current discussion.
I don't think I said what you're claiming but if it wasn't you discussing that then my bad.
I made it perfectly clear that I don't support it. I have made it perfectly clear that I think the choice is best left to the would-be mother first and foremost.
As I stated earlier, if one believes abortion is murder and does nothing to prevent it then there is a severe discord between what one says their beliefs are and that of their actions. In that sense, such an individual stands exactly shoulder to shoulder with me on the side of the issue I am on and that is one of non-involvement.
I was really hoping somebody would steer the conversation in that direction. When I think back to how many ditch-pigs (really ugly broads) some of my pals and close friends nailed....there's no way they'd have ever settled down with those women if they'd knocked them up- 0% chance.
And I would have been the last person to advise them to do anything different than what they would have done and that would have been to pay for an abortion.
While looks were never a problem, there were some girls I am relieved I did not knock up for various reasons....christ my first time at 14 or 15 (I honestly don't remember) with a 13/14 year old girl...f'n hell.... we'd have made such a mess of our lives if.........
Where on this thread have I ever once hypothesized about who should live or die during delivery.
I believe it was you and another member discussing who you'd choose to save in a delivery gone bad situation, the mother or the baby. Either way, the relevance that has seems to be tenuous to the current discussion.
Why would you even say that?
I don't think I said what you're claiming but if it wasn't you discussing that then my bad.
You said earlier, you're against abortion and then you said, you're pro choice, so make up your mind, man. You can't have both.
I made it perfectly clear that I don't support it. I have made it perfectly clear that I think the choice is best left to the would-be mother first and foremost.
As I stated earlier, if one believes abortion is murder and does nothing to prevent it then there is a severe discord between what one says their beliefs are and that of their actions. In that sense, such an individual stands exactly shoulder to shoulder with me on the side of the issue I am on and that is one of non-involvement.
One thing these types of online conversations never and cant take into consideration is how one dude or women looks.
I was really hoping somebody would steer the conversation in that direction. When I think back to how many ditch-pigs (really ugly broads) some of my pals and close friends nailed....there's no way they'd have ever settled down with those women if they'd knocked them up- 0% chance.
And I would have been the last person to advise them to do anything different than what they would have done and that would have been to pay for an abortion.
While looks were never a problem, there were some girls I am relieved I did not knock up for various reasons....christ my first time at 14 or 15 (I honestly don't remember) with a 13/14 year old girl...f'n hell.... we'd have made such a mess of our lives if.........
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
UK, Ireland / English/British rudeness - what do Polish people think about it? [168]
eh....that's not sounding like lemonade man
eh....that's not sounding like lemonade man
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
UK, Ireland / English/British rudeness - what do Polish people think about it? [168]
c'mon kondzior, find a way to turn those lemons into lemonade!
c'mon kondzior, find a way to turn those lemons into lemonade!
Foreigner4
23 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
I meant on this page
That's not what I was referring to.
Accuracy is important here and blurring terms allows for confusion. I'm not debating you on probability related to pregnancies resulting in successful deliveries.
That's not what I'm saying. I believe the statements below communicate that quite clearly:
Your understanding of it seems to have been just that.
Of course I know that, but your statement suggested a certainty whereas reality shows that it is a probability. Even you should know the difference.
Seriously dude, do we have to go back to this style of discussion?
No. Dead is dead and someone's fcuk up that kills a baby kills it just as effectively as the manner you described.
Oh, that's nonsense, is it? Are you saying those people and their lives don't deserve consideration in this discussion?
That reads like like something out of prime time television....but I digress. If I understand you as you intended, you're saying you and many of your "camp" (I hate to use such a militant word) abhor the decision to abort that is made due to the inconvenience of it all, is that correct?
not true.
I meant on this page
You're blind if you can't see that there are quite a few posters here who oppose abortion.
That's not what I was referring to.
Besides, I usually say "a child to be" but calling it a child is not a real mistake either as it will be most likely be a child if it won't be aborted.
Accuracy is important here and blurring terms allows for confusion. I'm not debating you on probability related to pregnancies resulting in successful deliveries.
since you can't predict the future, you can't say that a child won't have a good life and I believe, it deserves a chance.
That's not what I'm saying. I believe the statements below communicate that quite clearly:
I stated a would be mother has a better perspective on her future and what life may or may not hold for her fetus than you do...
It's a total nonsense what you said, F4.
Your understanding of it seems to have been just that.
but the chance to be born alive is much higher. C'mon, even you know it, F4.
Of course I know that, but your statement suggested a certainty whereas reality shows that it is a probability. Even you should know the difference.
Seriously dude, do we have to go back to this style of discussion?
yeah, but there is a difference between, e.g., a baby dying because it catches a disease, or someone cutting up ... isn't there?
No. Dead is dead and someone's fcuk up that kills a baby kills it just as effectively as the manner you described.
drug addicts having abortions because they love their unborn children so much they wouldn't want to bring them into this terrible world
Oh, that's nonsense, is it? Are you saying those people and their lives don't deserve consideration in this discussion?
where women are emotionally and economically stable, and just happen to fall pregnant through, e.g., drinking one glass too many
That reads like like something out of prime time television....but I digress. If I understand you as you intended, you're saying you and many of your "camp" (I hate to use such a militant word) abhor the decision to abort that is made due to the inconvenience of it all, is that correct?
Foreigner4
22 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
No one is talking about her child except you. I believe my response below made that clear.
Not all people enjoy life- you should be thankful that you cannot comprehend that.
Because I cannot pretend to know another's situation better than they do, I would not be arguing for her to do or not to do anything except make the decision she feels is best.
Incorrect. Miscarriages are real facts of life. Infant mortality rates exist not because of imagination but because babies do die before becoming children.
what about her child's future?
No one is talking about her child except you. I believe my response below made that clear.
Why not give it a chance to enjoy life, like we all do (more or less, anyway)?
Not all people enjoy life- you should be thankful that you cannot comprehend that.
Because I cannot pretend to know another's situation better than they do, I would not be arguing for her to do or not to do anything except make the decision she feels is best.
it will be certainly a child if it won't be aborted, period!
Incorrect. Miscarriages are real facts of life. Infant mortality rates exist not because of imagination but because babies do die before becoming children.
Foreigner4
21 Nov 2012
News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]
Yeah, I suppose that may look to be an odd angle on which to approach the subject of the thread, I'm really tired right now and a bit delirious but here goes:
Pointing out the hypocrisy of a group is fundamental to undermining their message and/or inviting members of a group to right their course.
If there is no hypocrisy then at least there's consistency and with consistency there's conviction. I know, I know, there's a caveat to that and lots of foul people have had the conviction necessary to do pretty nasty things. Nonetheless if someone is preaching about moral goodness then they're actions better be in line with their message.
If members of a group claim one thing but then act out of accordance with their demands then, I find it difficult to adopt their views and suggest others come to similar conclusions.
If this makes no sense to you then let me know and I'll respond in a couple days after I hibernate.
I realize what I wrote.
It wasn't that.
I stated a would be mother has a better perspective on her future and what life may or may not hold for her fetus than you do...that clear enough for you?
bernie23, thanks... sometimes I wonder what the point is in writing anything to people when they can't make it through one line of text without getting lost.
Yeah, I suppose that may look to be an odd angle on which to approach the subject of the thread, I'm really tired right now and a bit delirious but here goes:
Pointing out the hypocrisy of a group is fundamental to undermining their message and/or inviting members of a group to right their course.
If there is no hypocrisy then at least there's consistency and with consistency there's conviction. I know, I know, there's a caveat to that and lots of foul people have had the conviction necessary to do pretty nasty things. Nonetheless if someone is preaching about moral goodness then they're actions better be in line with their message.
If members of a group claim one thing but then act out of accordance with their demands then, I find it difficult to adopt their views and suggest others come to similar conclusions.
If this makes no sense to you then let me know and I'll respond in a couple days after I hibernate.
I hope, you realize what you just said F4?
I realize what I wrote.
you said that she knows that the best thing for her child to be is death.
It wasn't that.
I stated a would be mother has a better perspective on her future and what life may or may not hold for her fetus than you do...that clear enough for you?
bernie23, thanks... sometimes I wonder what the point is in writing anything to people when they can't make it through one line of text without getting lost.