mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
Actually I should have also included Lithuanians and Ukrainians.
Couldn't agree more.
Actually I should have also included Lithuanians and Ukrainians.
mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
Also Hungary granted asylum to ethnic Hungarians from Romania's very repressive regime as early as 1988, an unheard breach of communist protocal at the time that went unchallenged by the USSR (signalling weakness).
Ending communism was a group effort and Hungarians, Poles, East Germans and Czechoslovaks can all be proud of the roles they played in that noble undertaking without contests about who was first with exactly what.
Too bad that so many here are nostalgic for the PRL and want the current government to emulate its ways.
From memory, the MSzMP in Hungary also abandoned Communism as early as October 1989.
Also Hungary granted asylum to ethnic Hungarians from Romania's very repressive regime as early as 1988, an unheard breach of communist protocal at the time that went unchallenged by the USSR (signalling weakness).
Ending communism was a group effort and Hungarians, Poles, East Germans and Czechoslovaks can all be proud of the roles they played in that noble undertaking without contests about who was first with exactly what.
Too bad that so many here are nostalgic for the PRL and want the current government to emulate its ways.
mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
So you support the subversion of the rule of law. About what I expected.
So you support the subversion of the rule of law. About what I expected.
mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
You could have fooled a lot of people actually living in the nation. Because so much of what they do is oriented around the past rather than the present (and forget about the future).
How is destroying the TK or turning it into a set of PiS lap dogs going to create jobs? (number one priority of younger voters)
Indeed, PiS's concern has always been first nad foremost the good of the nation.
You could have fooled a lot of people actually living in the nation. Because so much of what they do is oriented around the past rather than the present (and forget about the future).
How is destroying the TK or turning it into a set of PiS lap dogs going to create jobs? (number one priority of younger voters)
mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
They have to destroy the constitution to save it?
My theory: This isn't about the earlier PiS government as it's specifically about the 2006 mayoral elections where PiS tried to invalidate the results on the basis of a law which could not pass any constitutional muster (it required greater diligence on the part of the candidate's spouse than of the candidate themself). The TK declared the law in violation of the constitution and she took office. This was a vital shot in the arm for PO who went on to take the parliament.
At the time JK or LK (can't remember which) said a lot of things about respecting laws even if they're poorly written. I guess things have changed and only laws that please JK should be followed.
They have to destroy the constitution to save it?
My theory: This isn't about the earlier PiS government as it's specifically about the 2006 mayoral elections where PiS tried to invalidate the results on the basis of a law which could not pass any constitutional muster (it required greater diligence on the part of the candidate's spouse than of the candidate themself). The TK declared the law in violation of the constitution and she took office. This was a vital shot in the arm for PO who went on to take the parliament.
At the time JK or LK (can't remember which) said a lot of things about respecting laws even if they're poorly written. I guess things have changed and only laws that please JK should be followed.
mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
This is from the "not as reassuring as it's meant to be" file. You're saying that Polish people are politically passive and don't care what the government does as long as it can hand out some goodies. A very damning indictment.
many viewers say to themselves: "Oh no, more political claptrap!" Some switch channels to some soap or sitcom.
This is from the "not as reassuring as it's meant to be" file. You're saying that Polish people are politically passive and don't care what the government does as long as it can hand out some goodies. A very damning indictment.
mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
Another important difference is between common law (US) and civil law (Poland most European countries) where lots of things have to be spelled out in the constitution in the latter where as the former leaves them for courts to figure out.
But the Polish one learnt from that mistake and so many things are very clear and unambiguous.
Another important difference is between common law (US) and civil law (Poland most European countries) where lots of things have to be spelled out in the constitution in the latter where as the former leaves them for courts to figure out.
mafketis
5 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
Well there's no appealing a Supreme Court decision so in that way, yeah, it's rulings are final (though they have no enforcement power). Sometimes a sitting court will agree to hear a case that is similar to a previous one and may come to a different decision but that's not tremendously common. the basic job of the Supreme Court is to make judgements on whether particular laws or lower court decisions violate the federal constitution or not. Since the constitution is written in unclear, ambiguous language a lot of the time (probably on purpose) there's no shortage of disagreements on how to interpret it.
You really don't want to be quoting Andrew (most genocidal US President ever) Jackson. (plus, he probably never said it).
That's what the the current case reminds me of. In America, people love(d) to complain about Supreme Court decisions but reacted very stronly to attempts to maniupulate it by stacking the deck. Now stacking the court is the open goal of both sides in the US.
If the Polish public decides it doesn't like this I wonder what will happen to Duda. In some ways the US politician JK reminds me most of is Karl Rove one of the masterminds behind George W Bush. Any politicians that openly cooperated with W lived to regret it (Tony Blair and Colin Powell for starters).
That simply doesn't apply here. For a start, the United States Constitution doesn't have anything about decisions being final,
Well there's no appealing a Supreme Court decision so in that way, yeah, it's rulings are final (though they have no enforcement power). Sometimes a sitting court will agree to hear a case that is similar to a previous one and may come to a different decision but that's not tremendously common. the basic job of the Supreme Court is to make judgements on whether particular laws or lower court decisions violate the federal constitution or not. Since the constitution is written in unclear, ambiguous language a lot of the time (probably on purpose) there's no shortage of disagreements on how to interpret it.
To quote a famous U.S. President, "[The Chief Justice] has made his decision; now let him enforce it!"
You really don't want to be quoting Andrew (most genocidal US President ever) Jackson. (plus, he probably never said it).
another scandal when Franklin Roosevelt proposed packing the U.S. Supreme Court with favorable justices.)
That's what the the current case reminds me of. In America, people love(d) to complain about Supreme Court decisions but reacted very stronly to attempts to maniupulate it by stacking the deck. Now stacking the court is the open goal of both sides in the US.
the President is now in breach of the Constitution
If the Polish public decides it doesn't like this I wonder what will happen to Duda. In some ways the US politician JK reminds me most of is Karl Rove one of the masterminds behind George W Bush. Any politicians that openly cooperated with W lived to regret it (Tony Blair and Colin Powell for starters).
mafketis
4 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
He is ignoring it, I wouldn't be surprised if regrets doing so sooner or later. The more integrity he has the more he will regret it.
he cannot ignore what the TK says.
He is ignoring it, I wouldn't be surprised if regrets doing so sooner or later. The more integrity he has the more he will regret it.
mafketis
4 Dec 2015
mafketis
4 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
Three weeks into PiS as a ruling party and already the biggest government crisis since.......? I see they aren't wasting any time.
Yep, he's caught between loyalty to the party and loyalty to the country and constitution. something tells me he's not made for such pressure and will probably break soon (or be discarded by the party and forced to resign, who would be president then?)
Duda spoke to the country, but it looks like he's made a complete mess of things.
Three weeks into PiS as a ruling party and already the biggest government crisis since.......? I see they aren't wasting any time.
It looks to me like Duda is lost.
Yep, he's caught between loyalty to the party and loyalty to the country and constitution. something tells me he's not made for such pressure and will probably break soon (or be discarded by the party and forced to resign, who would be president then?)
mafketis
3 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
It's hard to see Duda as anything but a marionette, do you have any evidence that he's his own man and would ever stand up to JK?
It's hard to see Duda as anything but a marionette, do you have any evidence that he's his own man and would ever stand up to JK?
mafketis
3 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
I wonder what Kaczyń... I mean Duda, President Duda, that's who I mean, I wonder what he'll do now.
They've also ruled that Duda was/is obliged to take their oath immediately and that any other interpretation is unlawful.
I wonder what Kaczyń... I mean Duda, President Duda, that's who I mean, I wonder what he'll do now.
mafketis
3 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
Bring it on, I can take care of myself.
Explain how two were appointed illegally and why the three that even you admit were appointed legally were not sworn in.
If what PiS is doing is for the good of the nation then why are they subverting the rule of law?
Nobody opened this subject because as soon as you do, you will be attacked by a bunch of 18 years olds from Chicago
Bring it on, I can take care of myself.
they appointed 5 Tribunal judges -- 3 of them legally, 2 illegally
Explain how two were appointed illegally and why the three that even you admit were appointed legally were not sworn in.
If what PiS is doing is for the good of the nation then why are they subverting the rule of law?
mafketis
3 Dec 2015
News / Throwing away the constitution in Poland? [626]
Why is there not more discussion on recent events? The PiS government has been making a steady attack on the rule of law by trying to pack the Constitutional Court (Trybunał Konstytucyjny) with PiS supporters by highly irregular means.
Why are they doing this? Are they simply trying to remove any obstacle to ruling by decree?
How can what they're doing be justified by supporters beyond "the end justifies the means"? (we all know where that leads)
Mods: Please don't attach this to some other unrelated thread. This is a separate issue that needs its own thread.
Why is there not more discussion on recent events? The PiS government has been making a steady attack on the rule of law by trying to pack the Constitutional Court (Trybunał Konstytucyjny) with PiS supporters by highly irregular means.
Why are they doing this? Are they simply trying to remove any obstacle to ruling by decree?
How can what they're doing be justified by supporters beyond "the end justifies the means"? (we all know where that leads)
Mods: Please don't attach this to some other unrelated thread. This is a separate issue that needs its own thread.
mafketis
2 Dec 2015
Work / How does a person join the Poland's army? [39]
The school in £ódź used to take people with no previous knowledge of Polish and get them in shape for university courses in 8 months. Of course these were highly intelligent university students but the idea is that it is possible (if not easy) to make someone fluent quickly.
I don't know if that school is still in operation.
In order to be able to speak Polish you will need at least 2 years of learning about 5 or 6 hours a day
The school in £ódź used to take people with no previous knowledge of Polish and get them in shape for university courses in 8 months. Of course these were highly intelligent university students but the idea is that it is possible (if not easy) to make someone fluent quickly.
I don't know if that school is still in operation.
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
No taxation without representation (American version of nic o nas bez nas)
You'd be surprised at how many Americans blame the US for that (and later troubles). I don't, but the basic principle is that countries sometimes victimize people and are sometimes victimized. Infantile nationalists don't realize there countries ever have done (or could have done) wrong.
Well I was just at MON's site and the front page has two pictures of him with foreign dignitaries....
What was American Revolution about then?
No taxation without representation (American version of nic o nas bez nas)
Wasn't 9/11 a case were Americans felt wronged by the big hostile jealous world?
You'd be surprised at how many Americans blame the US for that (and later troubles). I don't, but the basic principle is that countries sometimes victimize people and are sometimes victimized. Infantile nationalists don't realize there countries ever have done (or could have done) wrong.
A lot?
Well I was just at MON's site and the front page has two pictures of him with foreign dignitaries....
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]
Who will you blame everything on if they do disappear? Bogeymen just don't make themselves, you know.
PO is finished, washed up, kaput
Who will you blame everything on if they do disappear? Bogeymen just don't make themselves, you know.
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
Which is why he's appointed to a position where he has to deal a lot with foreigners? I fail to grasp the logic....
Macierwicz is a very original character and very difficult to understand for foreigners
Which is why he's appointed to a position where he has to deal a lot with foreigners? I fail to grasp the logic....
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
Of course. Job number one of any government is to look out after the interests of its citizens first (legal residents next and anyone else after that).
I just think that subverting the rule of law and the endless witch hunt for enemies in our midst is not a very productive way of doing that and I've yet to see any evidence that PiS is capable of anything else. It's dependence on a pathological personality like Macierewicz kind of indicates that.
other that they assert that Poland needs to defend her interest and that is true
Of course. Job number one of any government is to look out after the interests of its citizens first (legal residents next and anyone else after that).
I just think that subverting the rule of law and the endless witch hunt for enemies in our midst is not a very productive way of doing that and I've yet to see any evidence that PiS is capable of anything else. It's dependence on a pathological personality like Macierewicz kind of indicates that.
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
Quick Crow. Name three things that the Serbian state has done that have harmed other peoples. Name an instance where a Serbian government did something that hurt non-Serbians and that you regret.
I don't. America doens't (historically at any rate, if anything quite the opposite).
That ideology is again created outside of the region
Quick Crow. Name three things that the Serbian state has done that have harmed other peoples. Name an instance where a Serbian government did something that hurt non-Serbians and that you regret.
Everyone sees itself as wronged victims or forced to action by a hostile world.
I don't. America doens't (historically at any rate, if anything quite the opposite).
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
It's a model of Balkanesque nationalism* where the nation is utterly helpless (like an infant) in a hostile world. Any harm done by the nation is not its fault and any harm done to the nation is definitely the fault of malevolent actors. It's a retreat to childhood safety and avoidance of judgement. Once you're aware of the model you can't miss it in the real world if you're paying attention.
*I first read of the concept by a Croatian author (pretty sure it was Dubravka Ugrešić) who was disgusted by the grotesque forms of nationalism propogated in the newly independent Croatia in the early 1990s.
Would you care to elaborate? It is hard to phantom how you could come to such a conclusion?
It's a model of Balkanesque nationalism* where the nation is utterly helpless (like an infant) in a hostile world. Any harm done by the nation is not its fault and any harm done to the nation is definitely the fault of malevolent actors. It's a retreat to childhood safety and avoidance of judgement. Once you're aware of the model you can't miss it in the real world if you're paying attention.
*I first read of the concept by a Croatian author (pretty sure it was Dubravka Ugrešić) who was disgusted by the grotesque forms of nationalism propogated in the newly independent Croatia in the early 1990s.
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
It has to do with rejection of responsibility. If Poland is an eternally victimized country then there's no need to ever reflect on things that Poland might be responsible for. If it becomes a prosperous country in control of its fate then it can and will be judged like any other country. That's a terrifying prospect for some people. It's easy to retreat into the warm security of victimhood where only other actors need be held accountable.
Kaczyński and a lot of PiS supporters seem to want the same thing.
It has to do with rejection of responsibility. If Poland is an eternally victimized country then there's no need to ever reflect on things that Poland might be responsible for. If it becomes a prosperous country in control of its fate then it can and will be judged like any other country. That's a terrifying prospect for some people. It's easy to retreat into the warm security of victimhood where only other actors need be held accountable.
mafketis
27 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
If by 'funny' you mean "a tragic waste of time and resources that would better be spent on something else" then yes, it will be funnier and funnier.
I was watching Macierewicz emote last night on the news and I had an epiphany. He wants Poland to be a poor, downtrodden, victimized country. He hates the modern, more well off country that Poland is becoming and can't stand the idea of Poland not being invaded or occupied by somebody. He wants to live forever under the heel of oppressors. He desperately needs Russia to oppress Poland and he'll settle for nothing less.
But this issue is a _major_ loser among younger voters and PiS pursues it at the risk of losing them (all the ones I've talked to voted against PO rather than for PiS and they are not.... enchanted by the party that has shown up in the Sejm). The issue they care about most is job creation and PiS is essentially doing nothing there (because there's nothing they can do but that's a separate issue).
Personally, this whole Smolensk thing is going to be funnier and funnier as time goes on.
If by 'funny' you mean "a tragic waste of time and resources that would better be spent on something else" then yes, it will be funnier and funnier.
there won't be any resolution before 2019.
I was watching Macierewicz emote last night on the news and I had an epiphany. He wants Poland to be a poor, downtrodden, victimized country. He hates the modern, more well off country that Poland is becoming and can't stand the idea of Poland not being invaded or occupied by somebody. He wants to live forever under the heel of oppressors. He desperately needs Russia to oppress Poland and he'll settle for nothing less.
But this issue is a _major_ loser among younger voters and PiS pursues it at the risk of losing them (all the ones I've talked to voted against PO rather than for PiS and they are not.... enchanted by the party that has shown up in the Sejm). The issue they care about most is job creation and PiS is essentially doing nothing there (because there's nothing they can do but that's a separate issue).
mafketis
26 Nov 2015
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
I
Without concrete charges you're typing out your &ss (and hardly for the first time). Name _specific_ crimes that you think he can be charged with or give up your pathetic non-Christian hate.
I
His glib rhetoric and smooth and slippery ways enabled him to pull the wool over Poles' eyes for 8 years
Without concrete charges you're typing out your &ss (and hardly for the first time). Name _specific_ crimes that you think he can be charged with or give up your pathetic non-Christian hate.
mafketis
26 Nov 2015
Feedback / Is it Polish forum or foreign forum? [159]
Just to clarify,
PiS =/= you
Polonia =/= you
Church =/= you
And yes, you absolutely missed your calling, you completely should have been Jerzy Urban's apprentice, you're almost better at what he did than he was. That's a feat!
Just to clarify,
PiS =/= you
Polonia =/= you
Church =/= you
And yes, you absolutely missed your calling, you completely should have been Jerzy Urban's apprentice, you're almost better at what he did than he was. That's a feat!
mafketis
25 Nov 2015
Feedback / Why are threads deleted or send off topic list? [60]
Well I was agreeing with him and he managed to turn it into an ugly fight (not agreeing in exactly the right way is apparently also a grave offense). He certainly seems intensely angry at something or somone and I think this is just a convenient target. The forum has seen worse I suppose just ignore politely until he gets bored is probably the best policy.
You hate everyone and just complain.
Well I was agreeing with him and he managed to turn it into an ugly fight (not agreeing in exactly the right way is apparently also a grave offense). He certainly seems intensely angry at something or somone and I think this is just a convenient target. The forum has seen worse I suppose just ignore politely until he gets bored is probably the best policy.
mafketis
24 Nov 2015
Feedback / Is it Polish forum or foreign forum? [159]
Whatevers. It's very frequently used (also often referring to the old distinction between voiceless ch and voiced h (not maintained anywhere in Poland AFAIK). I've certainly seen kresowe more often than sceniczne or aktorskie or whatever else they used to call it.
lingwistykon.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/kresowe-%E2%80%9El%E2%80%9D/
That term is incorrect.
Whatevers. It's very frequently used (also often referring to the old distinction between voiceless ch and voiced h (not maintained anywhere in Poland AFAIK). I've certainly seen kresowe more often than sceniczne or aktorskie or whatever else they used to call it.
lingwistykon.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/kresowe-%E2%80%9El%E2%80%9D/
mafketis
24 Nov 2015
Feedback / Is it Polish forum or foreign forum? [159]
An amusing theory, but not backed up by the facts which were that the communist media tried to keep up the kresowa pronunciation in formal contexts as long as it could and only gave up when not enough speakers could be found who could manage it.
The change of ł (or 'hard' l) in slavic languages into u, v, w or o sounds takes place across a number or Slavic languages either informally or formalized in the writing systems (note Serbo-Croation forms like bio for był) or Ukrainian бив (byw) for był.
The process is simply far more advanced in Polish than in the others where it's limited to certain positions.
Constantły repeated by regime-controlled broadcasters, it became widespread. You'll notice in pre-war films the educated, middle-classers and cityslickers use the hard £ but the peasants they address often do the £=W thing. Except in eastern Poland where even hayseeds pronounce the traditional hard £.
An amusing theory, but not backed up by the facts which were that the communist media tried to keep up the kresowa pronunciation in formal contexts as long as it could and only gave up when not enough speakers could be found who could manage it.
The change of ł (or 'hard' l) in slavic languages into u, v, w or o sounds takes place across a number or Slavic languages either informally or formalized in the writing systems (note Serbo-Croation forms like bio for był) or Ukrainian бив (byw) for był.
The process is simply far more advanced in Polish than in the others where it's limited to certain positions.
mafketis
24 Nov 2015
Feedback / Is it Polish forum or foreign forum? [159]
So... (trying to think like an Australian) they would later be jammos? (working on the seppo model).
The only Australian I've known in Poland didn't have anything to say about the word Pole (don't remember if he used it) but he had lots of interesting and colorful remarks on the bloody (or whingeing) Poms (as he called them) and their various odd behaviors.
he last Aussie I met called them 'jam rolls'..:)
So... (trying to think like an Australian) they would later be jammos? (working on the seppo model).
The only Australian I've known in Poland didn't have anything to say about the word Pole (don't remember if he used it) but he had lots of interesting and colorful remarks on the bloody (or whingeing) Poms (as he called them) and their various odd behaviors.