Polonia / Polonia in Germany [59]


It is not really surprising. Most of those Sinti and Roma have in fact lived in Germany for many generations, often even within a certain region, despite their reputation. Which is why, along with the Sorbs, Friesen and Danes in Slesvig, Germany was obligated due to the EU Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities to recognize them.

Polonia / Polonia in Germany [59]


Well, you said it bewildered you how people would say that Danzig was German when it was transfered to Poland, and I pointed out to you that by 1945, it most definitely was by any reasonable indication. That doesn't mean that it was necessarily one at a different point in time.



Well said.

Mostly because they were oppressed by Serbia and there was no other realistic solution? How is that in any way similar to the Poles who live in Germany today?


It is not a matter of time.


Why? Do you think there is much of a difference between a Pole and a Vietnamese who migrate to e.g. Munich? Neither of them would have any historical link to the area, and likely travel there for the same reason (work).

Polonia / Polonia in Germany [59]


The Wiki puts it pretty well:

Wolff and Cordell say that along with the debunking of communist historiography, "the 'recovered territories' thesis ... has been discarded", and that "it is freely admitted in some circles that on the whole 'the recovered territories' had a wholly German character",


I am sure even you will admit that "Forget about those lands ever being "German" is a statement is completely unsubstantiated by facts.


Claiming anything else is just silly. The facts are that this city had belonged at this point to Germany for centuries, and was populated almost exclusively by Germans. That makes it a German city by any indication. Or would you say that e.g. Szeczin is still a German city because it used to be German for most of its* modern history? never mind who lives there now? Or should we consider e.g. Strasbourg Italian because the Romans founded it?

There is no need to instrumentalize history in order to justify the present. Lviv used to be a Polish city but is now Ukrainian. Danzig was a German city and is now Polish. But its' present state doesn't change what it used to be at a certain point in time, nor does what it used to be gives somehow justification to change the present.


You need some sort of rule for practicality reasons. On a continent with freedom of movement, you can't just grant minority rights to any group of migrants, that is pretty clear. The idea behind minority rights was to a) pacify ethnic conflict lines and b) to help those who found themselves under different rulers without fault of their own. They were not intented to allow a group to relocate and assume special rights over the areas' original inhabitants-

I mean to be perfectly honest, I don't really think that minority rights between EU member states with freedom of movement are all that justified to begin with. Everyone can nowadays live in his chosen country, get full citizen rights and the internet allows everyone to stay in touch with his home culture if he so chooses. All countries are democracies and bound by rule of law (though sadly Hungary is on a bad path right now) and i would trust them to treat all their citizen free and fairly.

It would just reflect badly on Poland if it were to break its' legal obligation in the case of German minority rights.

Polonia / Polonia in Germany [59]


Very considerate, but what I feel pain about is when people try to distort history. Poland owes the territory now, no need to lie about the past, have a bit more confidence in yourself.


So I suppose it is a good thing that most migrants to Germany are from Eastern Europe?


Just give it some time and those tools will (thankfully for Poland and Germany) become dull. I have no doubt that the next generation will have a similary close relationship to each other than French and Germans enjoy today. By then nobody will care about the silly reparation(non-) issue, the antiislam hysteria will have died down and LBGTQ will be fully accepted by the Polish people. That much is inevitable. the current generation of Poles living in German will play an important part in this. Better to get your opinion regarding Germany shaped by the uncle working in Berlin, than your grand-father who fought against the Germans. ;)

Polonia / Polonia in Germany [59]


That is a lot of nonsense and you know it.


It won't. Poland is legally obligated to it according to the Treaty of Good Neighbourship

Polonia / Polonia in Germany [59]


Precisely. And I don't see any sound reasoning against that. Minority rights are meant to protect minorities who at some point found themselves under different rulers without their input. They are not meant to apply to those who just wanted a better job and higher pay.

I mean do the Ukrainians have minority rights in Poland?

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]


They had to de facto scrap out the entire building right down to its' core. It would have been possible to preserve it afterwards, but it would have been very expensive and why go to so much trouble for a building that a) has a very problematic history and b) looks just god awful. It might be good enough for a shopping mall, but not for the city centre of a capital.

Please stick to the topic

Off-Topic / DALMATIA - How much Poles love Dalmatia ? [123]

Who is willing to bet that those protests are in truth about something completely different... ?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


What are you talking about? There are few countries who want the USA to stay in Europe as much as Germany. The American presence in Europe has been vital for German interests since Adenauer.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


They talked a lot like all socialist revolutionaries did, but realistically speaking, they were far from capable of doing so. Poland did offer them an opportunity to expand westwards with this war, but they made up for it by stopping them at Warsaw.


You can add as much to a settled bill as you want. Feel free to add interest for the partitions of Poland if it makes you feel any better. ;) A forum like this is a good place to blow off steam. No harm in his, since our politicians are wise enough to leave those things buried where they should be.

Life / A Third of Poland has declared itself to be an official "LGBT - Free Zone". [20]

Homophobes seem to spend a lot of time fantasizing about what LBGT supposedly do. It helps them rationalize their hatred, because otherwise they would have to admit that they are hating against ordinary people with no reason what so ever.

Because that is what this hate campaigns is aime at: Ordinary people who are ostracized for no good reason at all.

euronews.com/2020/01/23/these-photos-highlight-the-human-hurt-over-poland-s-lgbt-free-zones

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


I am sure, many Ukrainians (and others) appreaciated that they did not have to live in the SU during the Holodomor, but that was just an unintented and unforseeable side-effect.


That was hardly the case. What became later the SU was at this point still caught in a civil war, and in no position to threaten the rest of Europe. This purely a war of conquest, intented to stabilize the newborn Polish republic. There are lots of statements of Piludski and other Polish generals and politicians about the aim of this war. I am not condemning this mind you, Poland acted out of understandable self-interest. But let us not glorify this as a second siege of Vienna.


According to this autor perhaps. I could think of at least 50 battles of greater importance for European history, let alone world history. No doubt this battle was important for Poland, but the only tangible consequence for other countries was that it gave later Hitler a rope to hang Poland with and make a deal with Stalin.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

Lets' not pretend that the Polish-Soviet war was an Polish attempt to "help others" for historical' accuacys' sake. Poland wanted to take land from the Soviet Union, that is all there is to it.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


What writers? Here is a list of the founding fathers of the EU. I don't think anyone of them had a socialist, let alone communist outlook. Most of them were in fact conservative.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_fathers_of_the_European_Union

None of them would have used the SU as role model. And none of them did, they only looked at the US for guidance. It is one thing to repeat those Braitbard lies among your skinhead friends in the USA, but trying to do so on a forum with Europeans is just stupid.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Complete and utter nonsense. The founding fathers of the EU were devoted Christians who loathed Communism and the UdSSR with a passion. If anything the USA was the big example they wanted to follow, hence the dream of a United States of Europe.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

Instead of imaginary diktats from Bruessels it would be subject of very real ones from Russia, China and the USA.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


As you and others have noted, this is not because of the EU, and not even because of Poland, but because of the current government in Warsaw. Poland under PO was on its' way to becoming a key player in the EU. Poland is generally well disposed for becoming a hugely important player in the EU, its geographic position and economic strength make it the obvious choise of leading the Eastern European bloc inside the EU. The EU is in fact well suited for Poland's interests, since it generally strengthens smaller and medium sized member states over large ones like France and Germany (large ones are ofc still more influential than others, but less so then they would be under normal circumstances).

But since the EU is based upon solidarity and cooperation, if one refuses to abide by those principles, he will end up marginalised because he refuses to play by the rules. Which is what PiS is doing. By pointlessly antagonizing the other European countries (Germany by pointless reparation demands, Southern Europe by refusing to take even a symbolic amount of refugees), Poland has wasted its' potential.

Nobody can blame the EU when it is Poland who is prioritizing domestic over foreign policies.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


There is a big difference between considering something illegal and merely as grey area. In dubio pro reo, calling it illegal with this argument is incorrect.


It would have looked better, especially in hindsight, but there was no requirement to do so.


Not really. It was obviously the right decision. All democrats knew this, and since demagogues of the AfD had yet to pollute the Bundestag, they decided accordingly.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

No court has declared it as illegal, despite the best attempts of the AfD. So of course it can not be considered illegal.


There was no legal need to consult the parliament. Nor was it done in "dictatorial" fashion, because that implies that Merkel deprieved the parliaments of its' rights. Another AfD lie. What happened was that Merkel held a press conference in early September, and the opposition had the opportunity afterwards to demand a debate in the Bundestag afterwards. Which they did not do, because they agreed with Merkel's decision. Nothing dictatorial there.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


False. Not closing the border was completely legal under German law.


The EU is an important amplifier of the political independence of its' member states, particulary the smaller, Eastern countries. Being inside the EU increases the political weight of each country while negotiating with Russia.

The EU is also becoming more active in boosting the military cooperation between member states with e.g. PESCO. Which is a good thing, considering the forseeable demise of NATO by American hands.


A basic geopolitocal observation is the farthest from any straw man. Countries like Poland can use any alliance that increases their weight and independence from Russia. That is a fact.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

It is part of the explanation why those countries can afford to stay outside the EU,and it is of course relevant when one wants to use them as an example for Poland.

Poland is not Switzerland. It is not quasi unconquerable thanks to its' territory, and it is not surrounded on all sides by peaceful and overall friendly democratic neighbours.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Indeed. It is also worth mentioning that both of them are in much more favourable geopolitical positions, with no immediate threat to their security nearby (particulary Switzerland). Furthermore both countries have to adhere to EU rules without any say or representation.

News / How Poland bought German Airline Condor and might lose massive from it [34]


Dont worry about us, we are just fine. The fact that German muslims are becoming a more integral part of our society and thus receiving more acceptance is a good sign.


Moat of the German muslims have long entered Germany (or have been born here) long before Merkel became chaancellor. As for idiots. Trumps mismanagement of the Cotons virus might end up killing tens of thousands of Americans, yet people are still supöorting him.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

It would be good if the EU learned from this crisis and made sure that strategic products can be produced in the EU if needed.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

Just further evidence of how stupid American gun laws are.

google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1505227/guns-kill-more-more-us-children-per-year-than-cancer/amp/

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


What is so logical about this? If that is true, then this is honestly completely absurd and just a concession to homophobes.
It is not possible to raise your child "gay" or "straight", otherwise straight couples would not get homosexual children from time to time.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


Your story states the opposite. Your friend evidently failed in taht endeavour.


It is perfectly normal. All we need to teach them isthat some people are born with this orientation, that there is no way to change them and that there is no reason to discriminate against them. Nothing of that will make them gay (ehich is not possible in the first place).

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]

That is not a concern, because it is not possible to change a child's sexual orientation. In fact, homosexual are probably less likely to engage in such child abuse than hetero couples who try to "cure" their gay son, because they have likely more empathy for how senselessly cruel such a behaviour is.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

It is rather amusing that those gun nuts come back even though their only argument boils down to an irrational fear, while gun advocats have all the facts on their side. Then again, Rich is also irrational influenced by fear in his other views, so I guess it is pathological in his case.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


No it has not. It is just one the many claims you make.

But at this point, we have made each others position clear. If it validates your existence to wallow in empty hatred than so be it. But I'll make to look into thread once progress is reaching Poland, which is only a matter of time.